pyro_boarder Posted July 13, 2006 Report Posted July 13, 2006 (edited) PASR Box Building Guide As we progress in park skiing and riding people often want to build boxes or rails so that they can practice at home. Many people on this message board have asked the question “How do I build a box?” So here is an introduction to box building compiled from posts made on PASR over the past few years. This guide is intended to help give you enough information on the topic of box building so you can design and construct a box to your specific needs and desires, as well as learn what types of materials to use for different aspects of the box. It is not intended to be a step-by-step how to, but rather an informative reference. If you are just looking for plans there are [or rather will be soon] links at the bottom of the guide. Also note that this guide is written assuming you have some experience in handiwork. If you do not have this kind of background then this is a great project to get started, but you will need to gain some background knowledge before beginning. The Basics A box generally consists of a frame, top sheet, and copping. These will be discussed in detail later. For your first box you will probably start out with a flat box. Once you have some experience with a flat box, building any other type of box is just a matter of being creative in the construction. Tools Although it is possible to build a box using just hand tools, having power tools available will make the process much easier. Although specific tools will vary based on your choice of materials and construction methods you will probably need at least a saw, drill/driver, and measurement tools. Design There are many design considerations to take into account when building a box. Specific recommendations will not be discussed as the final design is largely a matter of preference; however we will go over the things you want to take into account when designing your box. If you want to visualize you box Google has a easy to use CAD program called SketchUp available for free at http://sketchup.google.com/. This program could be used to mock up your design before construction begins. Note: the following is written assuming you are building a flat box, but most of the advice applies to other types of boxes as well. Dimensions The dimensions for your box are determined by many factors. Most important is personal preference and the intended use, available space, and your budget. Some things to consider when choosing the length, width, and height are listed below. Length: Most people recommend making the box longer than 10’. You can make it shorter if you need or want it that way. Width: Most boxes are around a foot wide but do vary greatly. Some range from only a few inches wide to 4’ or more (i.e. butter boxes). When deciding on the width think about what you will be using it for and your preference for width. A wider box will be easer to balance on while a narrower one will be more of a challenge. Height: Do you want a low box to practice on or something high to challenge yourself. You should also take in to account that a box that is short relative to its width will be easier to stabilize that a taller box. The exception to this would be if you are burying the box in snow. Materials There are many materials that can be used to make a box. In general the box is made from wood or metal, and the top sheet and coping are some type of plastic or metal. Specific materials and their uses as well as pros and cons for each component of the box are discussed below. Frame Most home built boxes will are built form wood. 2x4 studs are the most common material use with ply-wood sheeting. This does not mean that you can not build a box out of what ever you have available (or free). You could also build the box out of metal if you have the necessary skills and equipment. Basically you want to build a box out of your material, use diagonals to sturdy it up and add strong legs or supports so it will not tip. Sheeting can then be added to protect the frame. Any wood that is exposed to the elements should be either painted with outdoor paint or pressure treated lumber*. You should follow general construction methods, but exactly how you should go about framing it out is beyond the scope of this guide. * Important: Pressure treated lumber may contain chemicals that pose health risks. If you intend to use it please go to this Consumer Safety Information Sheet for information on the risks and safety precautions that should be taken. Top Sheet The top sheet is usually some type of plastic that makes the box more slippery and protects the box and your skis/board from damage. What type of material to use is the most commonly asked question so there is a table below that lists most materials that are used with there pros and cons. The top sheet should be secured to the box in between the coping (or on top if the box will not have coping). It should be secured in to the frame with countersunk screws so they do not damage equipment. Coping Coping is a rail around the box that is raised slightly above the top sheet. It can be metal or plastic (e.g. PVC) tube. Care should be taken when using PVC or aluminum because the softness of the material has been reported to catch edges; however, this should not be a problem if you are careful to not dig your edge in. Aluminum has also been reported to be sticky and PVC is slick. Angle Iron can also be used as coping. Steel tube is a good choice for the coping but is more expensive. Steel tube, with the exception of galvanized steel, or angle iron will rust, but it is easy to file off. In order to attach pipe to the box you can screw up through the pipe if it is soft plastic. Alternatively you can drill a hole big enough to let the head of the nail through the top of the pipe. Then drill a hole just big enough to accommodate the threads on the opposite side of the pipe. You can then fasten the pipe with the screw through the smaller hole using the larger one to access it. Top sheet material table ========================== UHMW (Ultra High Molecular Weight polyethylene) UHMW is a high very density polyethylene plastic used by ski resorts for top sheet. Pros: Very high abrasion and impact resistance as well as a low coefficient of friction which make it very well suited for top sheet. Will out last all other listed materials. Cons: Cost ----------------------------- HDPE (High Density PolyEthylene) High density plastic similar to UHMW. Also know as puck board. Pros: Very durable, easy to work with, and slides well. Cons: Cost ----------------------------- ABS ABS plastic is rigid and impact resistant. Note: Pros v. Cons are currently unavailable because there is not enough experience with using this material. If you have used it let us know about it works. ----------------------------- Formica Formica is commonly used as counter top material and is available at most home improvement stores. Pros: It slides well, and is readily available. Cons: Chips easily in the absence of coping. ----------------------------- Acrylic (e.g. Plexiglas) Acrylic is a clear used to replace glass in applications where it could be easily broken. Pros: Readily available at home improvement stores. Cons: Prone to cracking and should not be fastened with countersunk screws. It is also relatively soft and should be used only with coping. ----------------------------- Lexan LEXAN Edited August 8, 2006 by pyro_boarder Quote
pyro_boarder Posted July 19, 2006 Author Report Posted July 19, 2006 (edited) I did a little revision and added a rough draft for a table of top sheet materials. If any one has more information on using the materials, specificaly from Formica down, please let me know as I don't have any experance or knowledge about using them. Also this is a working document so if you have any suggestions on how to improve it post them and I will do another revision. See also: The "FAQ's" FAQ Edited July 19, 2006 by pyro_boarder Quote
Shadows Posted July 19, 2006 Report Posted July 19, 2006 you can buy sheets of diamond... http://stores.ebay.com/WEPlastics Quote
Glenn Posted July 19, 2006 Report Posted July 19, 2006 Cleaned up the thread and pinned it. If you could, please link back to the FAQ: FAQ for the rules so people understand how to post in this FAQ thread. Quote
Stevo Posted July 19, 2006 Report Posted July 19, 2006 Thanks for the sketchup link. I've heard of it over at rampplans.org, but never tried it. Awesome, easy-to-use and powerful software. Quote
Glenn Posted July 19, 2006 Report Posted July 19, 2006 The part about fixing the coping to the box is unclear. Perhaps rewording and/or including diagrams or pictures would be helpful. The box frame construction was pretty sparce on details as well. Even though I understand your desire to keep a certain level of abstraction from details, specific examples might be nice. Perhaps a diagram of a basic box. Perhaps details of the box you built (I think you did...). I didn't check the in site links perhaps they have that info. If so, maybe just some quick captions for each link about the value of that particular link. Just a thought. Also, it's kind of assumed your audience has some basic handywork background. This may or may not be the case. I would include a warning about using pressure treated lumber, as far to many people don't take this stuff seriously enough. Also, a pro's con's table for the various metals to use might be cool. More later... probobly. Quote
Papasteeze Posted July 19, 2006 Report Posted July 19, 2006 Inserting a plan would be far more helpful than reading all of that. Quote
Stevo Posted July 19, 2006 Report Posted July 19, 2006 The part about fixing the coping to the box is unclear. Perhaps rewording and/or including diagrams or pictures would be helpful. The box frame construction was pretty sparce on details as well. Even though I understand your desire to keep a certain level of abstraction from details, specific examples might be nice. Perhaps a diagram of a basic box. Perhaps details of the box you built (I think you did...). I didn't check the in site links perhaps they have that info. If so, maybe just some quick captions for each link about the value of that particular link. Just a thought. Also, it's kind of assumed your audience has some basic handywork background. This may or may not be the case. I would include a warning about using pressure treated lumber, as far to many people don't take this stuff seriously enough. Also, a pro's con's table for the various metals to use might be cool. More later... probobly. ooh ooh, let me let me. I'll draw a basic box in sketchup Quote
pyro_boarder Posted July 19, 2006 Author Report Posted July 19, 2006 (edited) Inserting a plan would be far more helpful than reading all of that. The point is not too just say this is how to do it. It is to give enough information on the design considerations so you can design and build it however you like. I will however, include designs for a basic box to give an idea and give a quick fix if that is what you are looking for. Just a diagram will still raise many questions and the point is to try to answer as many as possible in one place. Glenn, I put the links are there more as a works cited. I'm not sure yet if I'll just make that more clear, or work it into more of a further research thing. *** I'm going to wait until more people post suggestions then use all of the suggestions to revise it. To do: Make it more clear as to the purpose and the assumptions made when writing. Add diagrams. Warning about pressure treated lumber. Improve the Framing section Finish Top Sheet Materials Table Pro/Con for metals Suppliers Edited July 19, 2006 by pyro_boarder Quote
ec156 Posted July 19, 2006 Report Posted July 19, 2006 plexi glass also works pretty good for a topsheet Quote
Stevo Posted July 19, 2006 Report Posted July 19, 2006 ....and here is some unfinished framing. (just didn't feel like finishing it) This will make one strong box... Quote
Shadows Posted July 19, 2006 Report Posted July 19, 2006 ^you need some general dimensions to dumbass. nice try though Quote
Stevo Posted July 19, 2006 Report Posted July 19, 2006 ^you need some general dimensions to dumbass. nice try though That's up to the builder, but since you're gonna be an ass about it. That box (both) were built to these specs: 2 feet wide by 2.5 feet tall by 25 feet long. 2x4 framing, with studs spaced 11 inches on center, or 8 inches apart. there. Quote
Stevo Posted July 19, 2006 Report Posted July 19, 2006 (edited) suree Edited July 19, 2006 by stevo Quote
pyro_boarder Posted July 20, 2006 Author Report Posted July 20, 2006 With a width of 2' you could probably get away with studs evey 4' or so where ever you have uprights. Quote
LTDSNOWBOARDER Posted July 20, 2006 Report Posted July 20, 2006 Hey, maybe you could add something involving how to make a drop in ramp for handrails. If you want i could do it for you with specific(sp) details and detailed drawings. Quote
Glenn Posted July 20, 2006 Report Posted July 20, 2006 Drop ramps will can/should have their own FAQ. Good idea... not good for this FAQ. Feel free to start up the Drop in FAQ! Quote
Shadows Posted July 21, 2006 Report Posted July 21, 2006 i just got a shitload of wood. and being how small my car is, it took me 5 trips there and back (from my house, to southside where the wood was). so i can make a freakin sweet box. i just need topsheet/coping and damn....backyard sessions. it looks like i got enough wood to make a 30+ foot box, 1-2 feet high. Quote
Stevo Posted July 21, 2006 Report Posted July 21, 2006 What do you guys think about pvc as a topsheet? Found some here. Quote
Tyler Posted July 21, 2006 Report Posted July 21, 2006 What do you guys think about pvc as a topsheet? Found some here. pvc slides as coping or a rail, so i guess it might work, it might be a little soft and catch your edges though...im not really sure Quote
Shadows Posted July 21, 2006 Report Posted July 21, 2006 im just gonna go get some formica from the counter store near me stevo Quote
Shadows Posted July 21, 2006 Report Posted July 21, 2006 did you get it for free? im gonna see if they will give me any scrap they have Quote
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