JF report 12-28

[bigdaddyk]

Two hour session today from 8-10. Fresh snow was blown and later turned into sugar. East Mt. had me wondering what happened. There were a bunch of ruts on the second head wall and it was icy. There were also more thin spots / brown spots. The groomers must have dug down too far or were going too fast. There was snow blown on it, but it appeared that a lot of it went into the trees...I don't know if it was windy or the guns weren't aimed correctly. Other then the top of East, the mountain was in good shape...especially Challenge.

[YummerzZz]

They FORCED them to blow snow in marginal condition's lastnight,which in turn ended up melting alot of snow and making it really wet/icy.The humidity was WAYYYYY up lastnight and the "Big gun"s were pissing on the last headwall of Rivershot.Even the Wisper's gun's higher up were barely making anything also.PEAK doesn't seem to realize these gun's(SMI) are basically worthless in marginal condition's.In the past we would use only Wisper gun's in these type's of condition's.A Wisper gun allow's a huge range of adjustment,as to where you could have a tiny amount of water and a huge amount of air fyi.Now don't get me wrong,in temp's 25^ and below with low humidity,the "Big gun's" work great,but around NEPA,your better off with sticking to the air/water type snowmaking.Especially in the past few year's and what look's like year's to come.Oh yeah,it was really windy lastnight too,with a warm wind coming out of the W-SW.It was blowing the hell outta me so I'd say steady about 10mph with higher gust's,25mph or so.

Edited December 28, 2006 by YummerzZz

[bigdaddyk]

They FPRCED them to blow snow in marginal condition's lastnight,which in turn ended up melting alot of snow and making it really wet/icy.The humidity was WAYYYYY up lastnight and the "Big gun"s were pissing on the last headwall of Rivershot.PEAK doesn't seem to realize these gun's are basically worthless in marginal condition's.In the past we would use Wisper gun's in these type's of condition's.A Wisper gun allow's a huge range of adjustment,as to where you could have a tiny amount of water and a huge amount of air fyi.Now don't get me wrong,in temp's 25^ and below with low humidity,the "Big gun's" work great,but around NEPA,your better off with sticking to the air/water type snowmaking.Especially in the past few year's and what look's like year's to come.Oh yeah,it was really windy lastnight too,with a warm wind coming out of the W-SW.It was blowing the hell outta me so I'd say steady about 10mph with higher gust's,25mph or so.

 

I noticed that there were areas of water ponds, like at side of the top of the triple chair and off to the side of Sno Chute. I assumed this was from draining the snow guns. Is the wisper gun the type that sits on the tri pod?

[YummerzZz]

I noticed that there were areas of water ponds, like at side of the top of the triple chair and off to the side of Sno Chute. I assumed this was from draining the snow guns. Is the wisper gun the type that sits on the tri pod?

 

Most of the puddle's are from all the wet snow being blown.Yes Wisper's are the tri-pod gun's you all know and love and probally have seen all over JFBB at some point.If you see a small puddle downhill from a SMI gun,it could have been from someone draining out the hose/gun from one.Did you see all the customer's complain about the icy condition's yesterday at JFBB on the new's?Another thing that happen's at JF,from the dirty river water,it tend's to jam the "Big gun's" up too,once that happens while it is running,all you get is a gigantic lawn sprinkler until you flush/clean the filter or nozzle's.

[bigdaddyk]

Most of the puddle's are from all the wet snow being blown.Yes Wisper's are the tri-pod gun's you all know and love and probally have seen all over JFBB at some point.If you see a small puddle downhill from a SMI gun,it could have been from someone draining out the hose/gun from one.Did you see all the customer's complain about the icy condition's yesterday at JFBB on the new's?Another thing that happen's at JF,from the dirty river water,it tend's to jam the "Big gun's" up too,once that happens while it is running,all you get is a gigantic lawn sprinkler until you flush/clean the filter or nozzle's.

 

 

Which channel...I saw 22 pulling in when I left yesterday. I expected the ice yesterday, due to the drop in temps from the days before.

[syd harvey]

Two hour session today from 8-10. Fresh snow was blown and later turned into sugar. East Mt. had me wondering what happened. There were a bunch of ruts on the second head wall and it was icy. There were also more thin spots / brown spots. The groomers must have dug down too far or were going too fast. There was snow blown on it, but it appeared that a lot of it went into the trees...I don't know if it was windy or the guns weren't aimed correctly. Other then the top of East, the mountain was in good shape...especially Challenge.

 

It was rather windy last night, on top of that the snow that was being blown, was nearly water which would also explain the ice.....just b careful when u r out there

 

Syd

[bigdaddyk]

Still, wet snow is better than no snow.

[fluffy]

Here's a thought YummerzZz.....maybe the JF snowmakers are still learning how to properly use the Polecats. They've never had SMI guns there before. There are fine adjustments that can be made to those things. If you are such a snowmaking guru that has been at JFBB making snow since 1992 then why the hell aren't you out there handling all these problems? Omicrons and SMIs need constant attention in marginal temperatures. If they left a gun unattended for two hours then ANY gun might start flowing like a garden hose.

 

For someone who claims to have a long history with JFBB you sure seem to be talking a lot of trash on JFBB. Not to mention trying to hand out 'secrets' of snowmaking to every mountain via PASR.

 

JFBB is kicking every other mountain's ass in snowmaking. No one in the area has as much snow and has been able to sustain the conditions like JFBB. Mad props to their staff for doing a great job especially since they are still fine tuning the new SMI guns.

[syd harvey]

Here's a thought YummerzZz.....maybe the JF snowmakers are still learning how to properly use the Polecats. They've never had SMI guns there before. There are fine adjustments that can be made to those things. If you are such a snowmaking guru that has been at JFBB making snow since 1992 then why the hell aren't you out there handling all these problems? Omicrons and SMIs need constant attention in marginal temperatures. If they left a gun unattended for two hours then ANY gun might start flowing like a garden hose.

 

For someone who claims to have a long history with JFBB you sure seem to be talking a lot of trash on JFBB. Not to mention trying to hand out 'secrets' of snowmaking to every mountain via PASR.

 

JFBB is kicking every other mountain's ass in snowmaking. No one in the area has as much snow and has been able to sustain the conditions like JFBB. Mad props to their staff for doing a great job especially since they are still fine tuning the new SMI guns.

 

 

the only reason that (almighty) JFBB is open, was due to that week of cold we had a while back....and it was cold enough to blow enough snow....thats the only advantages the "big (piles of crap) guns" have they work in COLD, not this marginal weather we been having.......it was luck, nothing more that JFBB got open....

[YummerzZz]

Here's a thought YummerzZz.....maybe the JF snowmakers are still learning how to properly use the Polecats. They've never had SMI guns there before. There are fine adjustments that can be made to those things. If you are such a snowmaking guru that has been at JFBB making snow since 1992 then why the hell aren't you out there handling all these problems? Omicrons and SMIs need constant attention in marginal temperatures. If they left a gun unattended for two hours then ANY gun might start flowing like a garden hose.

 

For someone who claims to have a long history with JFBB you sure seem to be talking a lot of trash on JFBB. Not to mention trying to hand out 'secrets' of snowmaking to every mountain via PASR.

 

JFBB is kicking every other mountain's ass in snowmaking. No one in the area has as much snow and has been able to sustain the conditions like JFBB. Mad props to their staff for doing a great job especially since they are still fine tuning the new SMI guns.

 

We've tried to use SMI gun's at JF since the Wizzard line was produced as far as I know with alway's the same result's,too much clogging and they are poor in marginal condition's.I can fine adjust a SMI gun better than most people and haven't told ANYONE what I know fully about them.I can't give out all my secret's...lol.Also,I would be out there handling all these problem's if thing's went different.I would love to be out there helping them now.And like I said before,the experienced snowmaker's that are at JFBB now,the river water,and natural cold temperature's in the river valley is what make's all the difference in the world compared to other area's.It's not any "Magic" new SMI technology.Bottom line,Omnicron Wisper's with constant adjustment are the only way to go in this weather and marginal conditon's.

[bigdaddyk]

Hmmm....I think my thread is going off course...................

[Timeless]

Hmmm....I think my thread is going off course...................

 

So how bad is it over there, I'm planning on heading over tomorrow.

[bigdaddyk]

So how bad is it over there, I'm planning on heading over tomorrow.

 

JF is actually in good condition. East mountain was a little icy and had a few ruts first thing in the morning, but it loosened up as the day went on. I thought East Mt. was in a little better shape on Wednesday, but Friday should be pretty good since all of the new snow and ice will have been groomed over two days already. I'm heading to JF or BB. I might hit BB, since I was at JF the last two days.

[adrian]

i thought conditions were excellent at both areas today. i was at jack frost from 10 to 3 and big boulder form 3 to 8. maybe ill catch some of you next time. im white above the neck and below the ankles and green in between.

[riderossi]

i thought conditions were excellent at both areas today. i was at jack frost from 10 to 3 and big boulder form 3 to 8. maybe ill catch some of you next time. im white above the neck and below the ankles and green in between.

 

I was at boulder from 3-9 but i'm colorblind so i don't pay much attention to peoples outerwear descriptions. It was my first day riding with the broken arm so i babied it a lot. You may have seen me busting my ass, khaki pants and jacket. The parks were decent but the two trails all the way to the riders right were icy in spots with little cover in others.

[Schif]

I"m heading up to boulder around 3 tonight. Any advice on areas to avoid, or where the good snow is?

[uninc]

We've tried to use SMI gun's at JF since the Wizzard line was produced as far as I know with alway's the same result's,too much clogging and they are poor in marginal condition's.I can fine adjust a SMI gun better than most people and haven't told ANYONE what I know fully about them.I can't give out all my secret's...lol.Also,I would be out there handling all these problem's if thing's went different.I would love to be out there helping them now.And like I said before,the experienced snowmaker's that are at JFBB now,the river water,and natural cold temperature's in the river valley is what make's all the difference in the world compared to other area's.It's not any "Magic" new SMI technology.Bottom line,Omnicron Wisper's with constant adjustment are the only way to go in this weather and marginal conditon's.

 

at boulder on merry widow the snow is nice and soft snow by the new smi guns at the first jump and at the second by the whisper guns at the second jump it was shity and crappy snow since u r such an expert explain that

[method9455]

I don't think anyone disputes that when its colder (less than 25 degrees) the SMI (and other brand, Areco etc) are great. But above 25 wet bulb, they aren't as good. That makes complete sense to me. The fan guns are designed to be efficient, I.E. make more cubic yards of snow for less money than any other kind of gun. They do that by having the compressor right there, don't have to pipe (and lose pressure over the run of the pipe) as much air. The fan not only propels the water instead of compressed air, but since the fan is mounted on a pole, the snow has a longer time to fall and freeze. Thus the snow is dryer (softer) because it fell longer.

 

However in marginal temperatures, the extra compressed air is better, because compressed air is colder than ambiant air. Also, the air temperature being higher, no matter how high you throw the snow, it will be wet hitting the ground. THe fan guns rely on that falling, while the whisper guns rely on the mixing of air and water.

 

So two different machines designed for two different things.

 

If I were in charge, I'd run the fan guns every minute of every night that it was not marginal conditions to get the most out of them. I'd run the tripod guns only when necessary to cover bare spots. Save the money to run the guns the really cold nights later in the season when you'll get a lot more snow out of them than the tripod guns.

[YummerzZz]

Method9455,Thank's for saving my finger's.I'm not the one who setup or adjusted the gun's uninc,so I can't tell you what happened exactly.Just like you don't use a ratchet to loosen a screw,you must choose what snowgun to use for a certain conditon or snowmaking system.

[method9455]

This is also and example of Shit happens. A hose might have broken and leaked water everywhere and they tried to clean it up.

 

Two seasons ago I was in a mogul field and there obviously had been a snowmaking hose split open, and the water had poured down between the moguls in one section and made ice 2-3 inches thick. I mean clear solid ice skating rink ice. It was horrible.

 

That could have happened.

[bigdaddyk]

This is also and example of Shit happens. A hose might have broken and leaked water everywhere and they tried to clean it up.

 

Two seasons ago I was in a mogul field and there obviously had been a snowmaking hose split open, and the water had poured down between the moguls in one section and made ice 2-3 inches thick. I mean clear solid ice skating rink ice. It was horrible.

 

That could have happened.

 

The first few days that BB was open, people were going off the side of Tannenbaum to jump the edges. Doing this, they were running over the hoses to the fans/ guns. To me, that should be enough to get tossed off of the mountain. I couldn't imagine that this could be any good for the hoses.

[YummerzZz]

The first few days that BB was open, people were going off the side of Tannenbaum to jump the edges. Doing this, they were running over the hoses to the fans/ guns. To me, that should be enough to get tossed off of the mountain. I couldn't imagine that this could be any good for the hoses.

 

The worst thing is when your own ski patrol/snowmaker's run them over with snowmobile's or the snowcat operator's.Dont' laugh,it happen's way too often!!!People should take their time to be more careful.

Edited December 30, 2006 by YummerzZz

[kcsnowman]

They FORCED them to blow snow in marginal condition's lastnight,which in turn ended up melting alot of snow and making it really wet/icy.The humidity was WAYYYYY up lastnight and the "Big gun"s were pissing on the last headwall of Rivershot.Even the Wisper's gun's higher up were barely making anything also.PEAK doesn't seem to realize these gun's(SMI) are basically worthless in marginal condition's.In the past we would use only Wisper gun's in these type's of condition's.A Wisper gun allow's a huge range of adjustment,as to where you could have a tiny amount of water and a huge amount of air fyi.Now don't get me wrong,in temp's 25^ and below with low humidity,the "Big gun's" work great,but around NEPA,your better off with sticking to the air/water type snowmaking.Especially in the past few year's and what look's like year's to come.Oh yeah,it was really windy lastnight too,with a warm wind coming out of the W-SW.It was blowing the hell outta me so I'd say steady about 10mph with higher gust's,25mph or so.

Worthless? Then why is there so much more terrain open then the other areas...don't make statements that you are clueless about. I can accept that there may have been some fan guns that needed adjustment, but there is no way the wisper gun can out perform the Fan gun. The wisper gun is good for one thing...to put a small pile of snow in a tight location. Nothing more and nothing less.

[pyro_boarder]

However in marginal temperatures, the extra compressed air is better, because compressed air is colder than ambiant air. Also, the air temperature being higher, no matter how high you throw the snow, it will be wet hitting the ground. THe fan guns rely on that falling, while the whisper guns rely on the mixing of air and water.

Sort of.

 

The compressed air is warmer that the out side air, but there is a cooling effect that occurs as the compressed air expands back to normal atmospheric pressure. Also in fan guns you are creating a small amount of nucleating spray much the same as an air/water gun and then introducing a fine mist which freezes onto the snow already in the air. When the air temperature is lower you can add more water (and hence more output) that will freeze into snow before hitting the ground than when it is warm out.

 

But the result is the same.

[YummerzZz]

Worthless? Then why is there so much more terrain open then the other areas...don't make statements that you are clueless about. I can accept that there may have been some fan guns that needed adjustment, but there is no way the wisper gun can out perform the Fan gun. The wisper gun is good for one thing...to put a small pile of snow in a tight location. Nothing more and nothing less.

 

kcsnowman,you obviously haven't been reading the other thread's.On a 25^ or below wetbulb night,no kidding one wisper won't out-perform even a kid polecat.But a number of wisper's can out-produce it.I'm not comparing on a one-to-one basis.You gotta think bigger.Like I stated prior,JF has the most favorable of snowmaking condition's probally in the state,well maybe beside's Elk.A wisper just work's better in marginal condition's...period.Ideal location/temperature and probally the two most experienced snowmaking supervisor's around is why JF has alot open.They would have more open if their hand's weren't tied and were given their freedom too boot.Kinda like the whole Shawn+Julian thing.Here I dug this up on the web,good reading,

http://www.skibutternut.com/mountain/snow-making.html

Edited December 30, 2006 by YummerzZz