Ski

I must have missed what trail at Elk has a better fall line than Challenge or Razor's...

If it's a clear night with light winds, valleys are always colder than mountain tops. It may not always feel like it because of the wind chill, though.

There's temperature inversion three out of four nights during winter. Mountain bases are colder than mountain tops 75% of the time. You may think it's impossible, but it's what the meteorologists have reported since they began recording temps---that probably goes back before the 1980's . You're certainly welcome to believe what you want, but facts are facts---something Elk fans definitely don't want to rely on, or 'guests' will take a closer look at the crap under their skis/boards. I sure don't care. And if skiing the same 20 inches of groomed old snow is "like skiing in Vermont without the drive", then you're pretty easy to please. BB's terrain is terrible, but they have far superior snow to Elk's. And if Elk had just one steep run that was comparable to Denton's or WL, then maybe claims of "hard to beat for PA" would be realistic. Narrow trails with lousy snow are the kind of challenge I look for, but everyone's different. I had a pass there in '99-'00 and skied during the week, while spending every weekend at CB. Weekend morning snow at CB was better than midweek snow at Elk simply because of firepower.

I'll bet CB is just loving that this thread title keeps getting bumped.

No pics...Melissa is really protective and wouldn't let me even ski with her and her friend, so we just chatted it up when they first got there.

Rolled into the lot with Ty at 7:30am and left her with her team at 8:30am. Met up with Chippy and You-Gene for some NF runs. Made our way from Lower Runaway over to Boomer. Boomer looked great, but had everything from powder to cord to some crust on dust. Smoke was okay, but Cannonball was the best it's been all year, with a few inches of airy powder over cord---the kind of snow that hangs in the air after you blow through it. WL was being groomed in the a.m., but was hard and crusty on the two runs I took it in the afternoon. Crowds were extremely light in the morning. The lot was 1/4 full by 11am, but kept building through the day. By the time I met up with Melissa and her very hot snowboarder GF, cars were being parked to the left of where you first pull into the lot. Busy, but nothing crazy. Probably the busiest day this season, although lift lines were three or four minutes at most. Funniest thing of the day was what happened under the Long Haul as it passes over Lower Fast Track at it's steepest headwall...one Ranger wiped out, followed by another and then another. They all fell at the same spot and just bowled into one another. It looked really goofy that they just fell over and crashed in a heap. But then Chippy, You-Gene, and I did the same run and hit the same spot and I nearly went into the woods at 40mph, or so. A snowmaker must have dumped water right at the worst spot at the headwall breakover and created a little ice rink. When we took the Long Haul back up, patrollers were roping the slope off for a groomer to fix it. Great day and some great snow in the morning. Here's a shot of little Chippy on course:

Man, you sure are a little bitch.

I'm not sure that's true, Glenn. It's certainly possible, but I vaguely recall a SAM article where the 'five timers' picked HSQ way down on their list of priorities. Food, lodging, easy access, and a dozen other things came first. It seem to recall thinking the list was upside down.

Now that they have the cutter, why can't they have a 22' pipe for mid-January though mid-March next season? If it's too warm, then we're all screwed anyway. And if Sno is piling snow up on the NF and giving us superior conditions to every other PA place, then why care how many days the 22' pipe is perfect? And keep in mind that Sno cut down a ton of trees to install the pipe...it's mostly new acreage, so it's not like they took anything away. The Blue argument is totally relevant at least for what Blue passholders have said. Blue's new owners seem to be cutting back on snowmaking. Period. Wouldn't you prefer to have mid-winter conditions like at Sno? Sno has built a consistent four foot base on the NF. Is that bad? Eh, I'm just sayin...

I'm not sold on a high speed quad bringing in a substantial number of new skiers/boarders since it would basically only service two top to bottom runs, the upper half of each are very easy blues. Sno's layout is both great and terrible. It's why it's not for everyone, but perfect for some. A high speed quad to ski Runaway and Fast Track is more of a luxury item than a 22' pipe. I'd ride a hsq maybe once every 10 runs or so, just to mix things up from the other NF runs. Sno took over and gave Mainline to the park kids. They cut down trees and installed a 13' pipe. Then, they carved out a spot from the learning area and installed rails like BB has at the bottom of their park. Now, they are making Spike into some crazy jib playground. How are they ignoring anyone? I've said over and over how empty Sno is, but you might have missed where I estimated they'd doubled ticket sales this year over last. Sno has a long way to go---not that anyone around here wants it to be as busy as Blue or CB---but doubling ticket sales is surely going in the right direction. The $10 ticket offer to other ski area passholders is far and away the best and most cost effective idea Sno has come up with. And that they did it for Sunday at noon to close makes it perfect to really get skiers to try the mountain. And Melissa is correct in that they were contractually obligated to spend like a drunken Doug. Sno doesn't pay board members a million dollars a year like CB did over the years. Their overhead is next to nothing compared to CB or Blue. I have no idea what their books look like, but I suspect instead of salaries, Sno is simply investing into real improvements. I can't for the life of me see a problem with doing it that way. Lastly, if Sno were to fail, the ski area simply goes back to county ownership. This is all being done at SMLLC's risk. More power to them.

Yes? You can tell us. We won't judge you. In fact....

I'm buying you a SFRB next time I see you. Something's gotta cheer you the fuck up, bro

Didn't Sno buy a crapload of rails at the beginning of the season? And I'm pretty sure the huge jumps are still there. In fact, it looked incredibly dangerous that Spike was open while the pipe was being worked on by three cats. Craig from CB doesn't even want to read PASR, let alone participate, because CB gets beat on endlessly for shutting down lifts when it isn't cost effective. I've started to read bitching about the new owner of Blue and how they haven't been blowing snow like they used to because she doesn't want to spend the money. But when it comes to Sno, suddenly everyone is worried about a ski area spending money? What the fuck is that all about? No, really, why is it suddenly a bad thing that a Pocono ski area throws a million bucks worth of rails, snow, and an Olympic halfpipe at park rats? Jesus, it's like my kid is playing opposite day and saying "I don't want ice cream". I've heard that the new quad will come when skier visits warrant knocking three minutes off the ride to the top. Jeez, I've skied every weekend at Sno this year and haven't encountered a lift line. So what's the beef? What's really behind the hate for a ski area suddenly spending like a drunken Doug?

If you're a BC passholder, you're much better off skiing Sunday at noon (until closing) for $10...

It's a regular NASTAR tomorrow, Chippy. I called earlier...now You-Gene won't be left out. See you on the hill!

Three out of four nights the NF of Sno is colder than anywhere at Elk because of radiational cooling creating an inversion. The 75% figure comes from how often it's clear versus cloudy. The average base on the NF is 48" compared to Elk's average base on their diamonds being about 20" according to an Elk employee. I'm not arguing. Just facts. No hype. Elk has great terrain and great fall line skiing.

Actually, Sno's NF hasn't had a bad day. Even the 60 degree week a couple of weeks ago was awesome while you guys had closed diamonds from all the grass and rocks popping up. It's all about the snowmaking capacity. Facts instead of hype. Elk has great terrain and the layout of the mountain is terrific. They better start hyping that instead of snow quality. BB's snow quality blows away Elk these days. That's what I meant by the Polaroid comment. Polaroid is down to less than a 100 employees (from 15,000) because they missed the boat on 'instant' digital pictures. And I'm just relaying what a bunch of my friends have been saying. I tend to think they are pretty credible since they are instructors at Sno and Elk and ski both mountains regularly during the week. But there's just no way for Elk to compete with Sno for snow quality. It's just a fact. Sno has a fraction of the skier visits and the comparison between snowmaking systems is like major league baseball versus a high school team. I skied with an Elk instructor on Sunday who said he'd skied Sno 14 days this year and the conditions on the NF have been amazing compared to Elk's diamonds. He added that the upper mountain at Sno was pretty comparable to the conditions of Elk's blues and greens. He said Elk's beginner slopes held up better during the bad weather last week. But I don't go to a mountain for the greens/blues. If Elk cuts other passholders a $10 deal, then I'd def head up. But there's no way I'm blowing $50 on old regroomed snow. Elk needs to drop a million bucks on snowmaking or get rid of their bogus claims, which are a little silly given the facts.

Yeah, I'll post some pics Sat. when we get home.

Ha, sure you did...

After this year, Elk's claim to fame of best snow/grooming is going the way of the Polaroid company...

Guns are blasting, btw...

They were on Boomer and Smoke tonight----I guess I remember some on Cannonball, too. I'm not sure whether or not those kids even read the warning signs. I suspect they get goaded into it by friends. I think it's funny when they get 2/3 of the way down WL and it dawns on them that it's for real and they're totally stuck.

I just saw the only rain/snow was for Sunday night into Monday. I'm more than happy to let the tourists have the mountain on Monday...and I think it's just NY schools who have off all next week. Our ski hill at The Hideout gets disgusting Prez week. It's like a mini Hunter.

One of my teammates was there today and said conditions were pretty crappy---all frozen granular, which he expected because of all the rain and wet snow. He said they really needed to blow hard tonight...

About a half dozen buses and quite a few cars were in the lot when I pulled in at 5pm for our Thursday night race league. Because of the race and rail jam, it was probably the busiest midweek day of the year. I believe NJ schools are closed tomorrow... After racing (Racewax.com won again ), we hit the NF. WL had some hard bumps and Boomer was groomed flat, but was a little crusty. Cannonball and Smoke had the best snow. Even though there were quite a few cars/buses, there were no lift lines either on Iron Horse or down on the Phoebe. You kind of got the feeling that business was building for the weekend and it might just be a little nuts for the first time of the year. I guess we'll see. The last weather report I saw said Saturday was going to have a high in the teens. They continue to pile snow and groom the 22' pipe. It was a pretty spectacular site when you first get off Rt. 81. Someone told me tonight that the Rev Tour is the final qualifier for the Olympics. Is that true? Anyway, a pretty decent night, even though there were quite a few newbies carrying their skis and snowboards down the NF slopes.