I was at Nestors the other night, and 686 and Burton pants were cheap (around $115..at least the red ones i was looking at). I just couldn't bring myself to buy pants that cheap, as I'm afraid they'll be shot after water touches them for the first time. Most likely going to snag some lime green Northface pants for around $185, and at least I know NF is legit. Also, the 686 pants were only 8k/5k.