Winter

your still a chump!

And i thought i was pissed off! Hey Chump, stay on topic, we were discussing local weather and snowmaking, and BC's opening possibilites, not what the hell is happening half way across the country. And because no pa resort has been hit with a 2 foot dump, thats why snowmaking and grooming count around here.

I assume you guys know that the machines BC and others have a fairly smart inthat they can adjust themselves on the fly as conditions improve or degrade, ultimately making the best snow possible for said conditions. It's hard to blame the snowmakers entirely, but if management is giving them dumb directions, well.... Because I'm a prick towards most managers and owners of Pa ski areas, I won't give Elk any props either. However, having skied nearly every ski area east of the big river last year, Elk by far had the most stellar conditions, including Killington. I know i know, they are in a different climate compared to other pa resorts, but many of their snowmakers and groomers are lifers there and that goes a long way to understanding the mountain and its quirks. Back to BC, this will be an on going issue with them unless they take better care of the people who make the snow and keep it nice.

Sure enough. But they need to make the most out of what they get and from what I understand, management shits on the snowmakers and groomers to the point where they cut their teeth at BC then move on to bigger and better places. Last years debacle of trying to open the entire mountain at once was a flat out dumb mistake. Inexcuseable actually. Blue retains a solid base because they really blow their snow fat on water, creating more ice than good snow. Cant tell you the last time i actually skied Blue that i wasn't thankful for sharp edges. At least BC, when conditions are favorable, has nice snow for the most part.

True true. Sno has a small trail far to skiers right that has a bit of trees,nothing to write home about but at least they are open to the idea. Back when i was a younger punk we'd ski Elk with a day pass and wait til the last hour or so and hit the woods. Lots of fun avoiding patrol too. We'd rip to the bottom, toss our jackets off to the side somwhere to fool the gestapo, go back up and take another run. Sometimes we'd even layer up x3 and take a third. And hell, if you did get caught, your ticket was about to expire anyway. Good ole days.

I really doubt the shareholders would pull the plug this late into the fall season. Fingers are crossed for a killer winter, let's hope they get it at Sno. Elk needs the competition.

That too. If i wasn't dropping so much coin for my family to ski there, I'd poach a run now and again and hope i dont get caught.

You're right! I also compliment when kudo's are due. And quite frankly, there's not a lot going around at least in Pa. I suppose if i was into parks, I'd give BC some compliments as they seem to do well with the terrain they have. But as an Elk mountain pass holder, I give them very little credit too. Equally oportunity ball buster I guess.

Late to this, but I'm pulling for Sno. It's had a string of bad luck for years and I think carlson was largely to blame. Bring back Dick Ford and all should go right. There is no reason Sno shouldn't give elk some competition. Elk runs a very tight ship even though their management is flukey as hell. Keep your chin up down there!

The more I hear from both sides on this, the more I realize that the owner of Elk is off his rocker and getting more senile by the year. He is in his mid 80s after all. This all stems from his 40 year hatred of the original owner of the village. Nothing like pissing off a hundred elk skiing families.

And Sno used to donate to scrantons hospital as well as a variety of other good causes. Anyway PAsux, good to hear, not sure who is doing the cooking there now a days but i guess any higher end restaurant can have a bad night or two. Some of the better restaurants out my way still feature the same chefs for a long time and dont bounce them out after a few seasons, but maybe they'll get stuck on one sooner or later.

I'd be curious to hear your opinion on the Grill. A person in our party had some italian/pasta meal which she seemed OK with, but i think when you set the bar high like they did years ago, gain loyal clientel, then slowly start to pull the rug out from under them, it just gets people talking and looking elsewhere. Kind of like the dutchmen situation. Bear Creek woo'd them into the place, away from Spring, Blue Marsh and Blue Mt. with nifty deals and a bit of leeway for their events, and then last year boned 'em pretty hard. Again, management didn't need to worry about pissing off a few people here and there back in the day but since they are starting off this ski season in a hole 7 figures deep, maybe they want to bring back a bit of hospitality to certain groups and maybe stop cutting corners where they once excelled in.

long time getting back to this item a few pages back, but the Grill has definitely slipped since i was there the previous winter. We popped in last weekend looking for those great burgers with a half page of burger additions to slop on and were denied. Pisser cause we were looking forward to that and a few crafties. When Franco presided over the grill, the burgers were hand made not frozen perfectly round patties. For crying out loud, for the price BC should at least try a little harder in the lower priced menu area. Anyway, still debating wether im skiing there this year. A bunch of long time friends who ski with the flying dutchment are splitting for Blue cause big wig Mark tweaked them pretty hard last year.

I'll say this much about the ole Doe, at least the owner and manager walked around the place and talked with customers. Some gave them kudos and others bent an ear and for the most part not much ever got done or improved upon (likely no $$$ to do it). The ONLY time I was ever approached by a manager at BC was when the head of food services, Franco Brady, would come to our table and ask how the food and/or service was. I'm not exaggerating when I say that at least 75% of the time I ate in the Grille, Franco came around to check in with us and nearly every other dining party there. Now, if the head guy Mark Shrotel, or perhaps the head of ski school or any other manager would do half of that, then at least I'd get the feeling that someone gave a shit there. To be fair, Elk is worse and Sno not much better (save for the days when Dick Ford owned it for a short time).

JF/BB have a good deal for season pass holders in that respect plus they really take care of their employees. Bear really is out for the last penny people will cough up as i remember absolutley nothing special done for pass holders in the few years i had one. Employees there get food discounts but only in the cafe. JF/BB give discounts to employees on all food AND booze, which helps bring the prices down from resort level to a more normal level. It's perks like pass holder deals and taking care of employees that generate a sense of loyalty and when it comes to owning a business, that is one of the key things you must strive for to stay in business.

LOL, gotta drink on the cheap sometimes i guess. I have a serious problem with craft beer right now and its common for me to drop $100+ on two cases of beer at Shangies

Wow, how a topic can get ugly within a few short posts! Regarding the beer-n-food post awhile back, the beer selection has always been pretty good, with prices on the high end of acceptable. The food otoh has been hit or miss when i spent a good deal of time there. They had good grub in the grill when boston culinary was in there, and then really good stuff under the great Franco Brady. When BC mark gave him the muddy boot, the food was still good but there were two times i recall it being mediocre at best and too expensive. Haven't been back since but i still am trying to give it another go this summer.

Exactly. BC blew Pa sking out of the pond with the Aspen vibe, thats all good. But, i trace of old school mixed in works too. IMHO, BC wanted to ditch all of that forgetting there are a lot of people who appreciate the rustic feel. I friggin despise Elk for picnic table seating, no wi-fi, chity parking and overly crowded lodge, BUT the skiing kicks ass. BC is the exact opposite and has the customer base to prove it works. But what would the cost be to re-light the old old snack shack to the right of the quad, in view of hungry skiers?? Management aint buying it, too redneck.

10-4 on that snack shack. You may be too young to remember before that snack shack was built, they had a reall small one just to the right of the old B lift as it crested the hill 2/3's from the top. they used to cook on grills outside and the smell of greasy burgers would waft over the lifts and get you damn hungry. They also had a little campfire going on most cold days. Now that was a snack shack. FWIW, i think that upper shack was scheduled for demo a few years back, not sure why it's still there. It was supposedly pretty rough. and also FWIW, i would never compare Doe to BC as we're talking black and white here. Doe was like a small Elk... leave it rustic, vintage and personal where BC put in place a corporate attitude with out west feel. But the management of both Doe and BC stinks so they at least have that in common!

High speed lifts so the slopes would be even more crowded, kinda why Elk is my favorite, you can actually make some arcs without hitting anyone.

South of rt 80 really got trashed by mother nature last year, but if Bear is smart they will research what they could have done differently if faced with another miserable winter. You can debate me all you want, but trying to open up a ski area 100% on opening day is incredibly foolish and it cost them HUGE last year. Focus snowmaking efforts on the park runs and a few cruisers (wait, they're all crusiers) and get the place open. Otherwise, cant speak much for last year, i kept my arse north of Pa. mostly.

...and the saga continues! Just got word that the hearing took place that was in regards to Elk suing the village of four seasons and just learned that Elk Mt. LOST all its suits against the village. As of now, the other half of the suit will continue where apparently the village's suit against elk will move forward. That may include their rights to use their private parking lot once again as well as water rights for making snow. Also considered is the fact that Elk recently dug up then burried sewer lines across the villages property without permission. Unfortunately i can't repost the announcement due to it being locked down on the VOFS website, but i suspect it will be in the locals papers there soon.

IMHO Sno got themselves into a mess when they took over operation from the county and overspent. They desperately needed the $1mil + snowgun overhaul but some other expenses were simply not as important, but they spent anyway. The downfall started happening a year or two later when minority owner Dick Ford, a sucessful hands-on business man was forced off the property as a silent owner, allowing the primary owner, dennis carlson, to run it his way. Dick was seen climbing lift towers replacing parts himself, digging pipes and poking his head into every department to look for ways to save a buck. When he was forced into the shadows, union contractors took over and costs skyrocketed, leading to a steady decline in revenue. Last I heard is Carlson is out and i'm not sure where Ford is right now. Best of luck to Sno. I know people rag on you but there is definitely a place for you to fill the void between crowded camelback and stuffy Elk. Keep your chins up!

Why you always down on BC man?

A skate park really aint a bad idea. The thing that so many smaller resorts lack is activites for skiers/riders in the 9 months of down-time. BC has a lot of crap going on for non-skier types in summer, but are missing out on a pretty good idea with having a summer park. Not sure where it would go that wouldn't interfere with parking or winter stuff. It would need to be big if they're going to do it right. Just got the vote tally of Ski East Magazines top 10 rankings in a variety of categories. Bear is slipping, didn't make a single top ten this year