Winter

I'd certainly never claim the race kids were perfect and i won't go so far as to say the incidents were few. But at the very least the race team kids had supervision and leadership that was ultimately responsible for their behavior and through that, word was consistently coming down from the team leaders about respect out on the hill. Again, there will always be issues but unlike those who use the parks, at least the race team had oversight. And yes, i wouldn't lie about all the collisions between race kids and park kids. One of them was my own kid making clean turns down extreme when a snowboarder blazed down grizzly, cut hard to the right to seemingly cut over to the beginners chair and wiped out my 6 year old. It was all i could do to keep my fists to my self. The reason i dont post much here is most topics get off-topic in a hurry. Bottom line here is not whether the team will be missed or not, or if the mountain will lose money. I could care less as i dont ski there any longer. The topic was about how the manager and ski school director went about notifying the team. It is about not consulting those coaches and leaders about problems up to that point and not asking them for input on the new team. It's about blindsiding a lot of good people who were proud of their mountain and now told they were never really appreciated. Like them or not, it's still a group of 87 kids who were enjoying the mountain and more importantly enjoying being on snow like all of us here, boarder, skier or tuber. That has to count for a little something? In the end, it was two corporate adult know-nothings that didn't take into consideration how poorly their decision would be taken. Ask yourself, would it be any different if next year at the beginning of the season they announced all parks would be gone in favor of more tubing runs? Or just gone period?

Right off the bat, i won't disagree with race kids with no park etiquette, but i think that is with any kid who hasn't been tought the proper rules of the park. It wasn't race teams responsibility to teach them this, it's something that is learned through those who do understand the rules. That is, unless you want to become one of those mountains that forces you to go through 'training' and then give you a pass to use those parks. From the park rats, I hear constant swearing from the lifts or slopes, I routinely see very dangerous skiing/riding, and in general, they are the ones who have caused most of the old school skiers (re: ski code responsible people) to leave and head north. And again, it was park rats who took out six smaller race kids very early last season. Not adult skiers, not ski instructors, not other regular ski kids, but park rats. If i hadn't witnessed two of the accidents, I might have called it coincidental.

I follow your point and not to split hairs, but i can't think of one instance at BC where this was as much of an issue. The race team had their own room and were entirely in charge of its clean-up, as no other department would do it for them. And rightly so. And yes, closing a trail does and will cause public complaints. I'm not sure that was the issue as much at BC as Nastar is expanding to saturdays from what i hear, so again, the race trail will be closed part of the weekend. But really, race teams at many ski areas are more of bragging rights for said mountain. It certainly isn't a huge money maker (save for Blue which has a ton of racers). The bottom line is, BC pocketed a nice chunck of money, but after the team is gone, will they gain that money back and then some by this decision? Maybe, but probably not right away. Right now there are 87 upset kids with parents that have no good explanation as to why big corporate brother kicked out a successful race team. If you have kids, you'll understand the dilema. And beleive me, those parents are talking about this and likely encouraging people NOT to spend money at BC. That will hurt a bit too.

I'll tell you what's worse, the majority of kids using the terrain parks or just being there in general. The race kids, mine included were firmly instructed on proper behavior amongst the public and mountain rules clearly stated no race kids in the parks during training hours. Best you learn the big picture before spouting off more silliness. The park rats, while keeping BC flush with lift ticket money, are some of the worst behaved, worst trained in common ski/board sense and often are downright ignorant of their surroundings. I've been to 9 other ski areas this year, i have a pretty good understanding of this. Besides, i never saw a BC race kid jump the ropes and blaze through the beginner trail half scaring the $hit out of unsuspecting nOObs. And then there is ski patrol who only give a half-hearted attempt at fixing the problems.

Some of you are dead wrong. Last year, when they only had 75 racers, the mountain profited just less than $32,000 from team registration and season pass sales of the families of the racers. That was AFTER paying the coaches and any other misc. odds and ends. It was told to me by another parent that beyond the $450 (actually $475 this year) registration per kid, plus the overpriced nearly $1800 family season pass deal, some parents frequented the grill, or trails end cafe, some stayed overnight in the hotel while others made good use of the spa. The roughly figured the average family on the race team dropped nearly $3000 each season. Do the math and you'll find the ski team brought in well into the six figure $$$ range. Of course, this year, you can base it off of 87 instead of 75. In the grand scheme of things, that kind of money is a small fraction of what that place brings in in a given year. But again, as a business owner, i have to wonder what logic goes through a managers mind in that he'll not only have a hard time making that $$$ up, but then having to deal with the horrible PR this has created. If anything, the race team did more free promoting of their mountain than any other program at BC. And hell, the slopes were less crowded this year, likely due to the ridiculous ticket prices.

For several reasons. First, some parents simply may not have the financial means to be part of any race program. Second, it BC's situation, some parents are so far from any other mountain, that they may not wish to drive any further than they do now. So the kid ends up free skiing and then racing on weekends. Yeah, Blue is within eyesight of BC, but it's still 35-45 minutes further. I do know that the PARA coaching community is great bunch of people who will do anything for any PA kid at and event. I've seen coaches from other mountains fully involved in fixing an equipment problem of another teams kids, or getting them prepped in the start line. I do think that after a season of being an independant, one should consider joining a team, but they're not forced to. And yes, looks like Blue will benefit. The largest team (save for 7 springs maybe) will be getting bigger. BC just gave more money back to Blue!

Sorry to hear that gatesetter. Cowardly on their part not to explain the real reason for all of this. See the head coaches reply below... -------------------- It's with a heavy heart that I'm writing this update, as normally this time of year is a joyous celebration of a great season for our ski team. As you probably know by now, mountain management and ski school have decided to take over responsibility of what was the Bear Creek Race Team. To the point, I want to be perfectly clear that neither Reece, Andi or I had any knowledge of this until two days ago. We were not consulted in any way, nor were we asked for input as to how best to form this new program. This is a done deal. As your team leaders, we had requested that we be the ones to break the news to our group. Sadly, our request was not honored. If anyone did not receive the news from ski school today, please let me know as I'll will forward it to you. I would like to point out some inaccuracies in the emails that have been sent to the team and to individuals afterwards, from Ski School. The Bear Creek 'RACE' Team was a name given to us by Bear Creek management upon the teams first year of existence. To most, this name would immediately suggest a degree of competition within the program. Early thoughts of calling it a SKI team were discouraged, due in part to the possible inclusion of a snowboarding element. All previous and current directors and coaches of the team understood and respected the importance of having a strong developmental program, and initially it was a developmental program for the vast majority. As with any other youth sport, one cannot practice for such a time that the aspirations of competition do not arise and the need to apply learned skills becomes apparent. Imagine telling your child they have to go to little league baseball or softball practice but are denied the experience and pleasure of competing in a game. At no point through the years has it been brought to our attention that our program has strayed from its original focus. Through all the outstanding results our youngsters accomplished, through rare but pronounced praise from other much more established PA ski teams, and even through the multitude of newspaper articles, magazine articles and TV spots, have we ever been told we are losing focus of our developmental side. As a matter of fact, it was the developmental side that has progressed in organization faster than the race side in recent years. Last but not least, the majority of our coaches have made it a point to further their education on both sides of the program, most times at a significant financial burden, with no financial reward. We even hired coaches and ski instructors with far higher credentials than anyone who ever stepped into skis at Bear Creek, to expand the education of our coaches even further. Bottom line is, we are shocked by not only the sudden change of leadership, but the reasoning behind it. More important than anything above, is what happens now. For those who will choose to stay at Bear Creek and join the new developmental team, I'm fairly confident it will be organized and well staffed, as a continuation of the current Kodiak Kids program. I'd suggest waiting until Ski School director Susan Smoll finalizes the details and presents the structure and costs before deciding what you'll do. As for the currently displaced racers and those who aspired to race outside of Bear Creek next season, Reece and I have your interests at heart. Within less than 24 hours of the initial email most of us received, I have the sympathy and support of two Pa. ski teams who are willing to discuss the addition of Bear Creek racers into their programs. For those accomplished Skier-cross racers and those who would like to become part of that group, please contact Andi McGunnigle, as it would be a shame not to continue your incredible progress. Parents, you won't be left out either. Anyone who is currently volunteering their time in other departments at Bear Creek (patrol, ambassadors etc) or paid positions (coaches, ski instructors) will be brought to the attention of the ski team you choose to join. We will cheerfully provide the references and needed information if that's the direction your family chooses. Furthermore, I'm also exploring real estate and rental property opportunities at several locations within PA near established ski teams that would be honored to have us. And lastly, for those racers who choose to pursue competing within PARA but do so as an independent racer without a mountain to call their home, you may certainly do so. However, the racer MUST be represented at these events by a licensed coach or they cannot compete. If you chose this route, please get in touch with me now and/or next season and I'll be sure to have someone take care of you. Of course, being that Bear Creek will not be recognized as a legitimate team in USSA/PARA any longer, there will still be plenty of up-to-date licensed ex-BC coaches at most of the races regardless, including Reece and I. One more item... It was clearly noted that other than what Ski School has proposed for the 'new' team, there will be no gate training on Thursday evenings or any opportunity to practice regulation USSA courses from here out. Nastar will still be available however. Andi, Reece and I sincerely appreciate the wealth of encouraging emails we've been flooded with today. It's been our pleasure to earn your trust in taking care of your children each weekend. As with all our fine coaches, our reward was never monetarily motivated, as evidenced by the fact it always costs more money to coach than was gained through a paycheck. Our reward was seeing your kids break free of the wedge turn into parallel ones, or standing tall on the podium proudly donning their Bear Creek Racing t-shirt. Kudo's to the coaches for dedicated service in bad weather or good, and striving to better not only your group of kids, but yourselves as well. Thanks to the parents for their support and generous donations, we only wish they could have been used for longer term investments. And just as importantly to the racers themselves. You listened, learned and persevered, all the while exhibiting fine sportsmanship and loyalty to the Bear Creek Race Team. From here out, we kindly request that all 'new' team questions, suggestions and concerns be directed to the people below. ------CUT-------- I left out the contact info for those responsible. But there you have it...

I keep getting info in bursts, sorry for that! I was kind of wrong on one thing. The coaches did get paid to travel, but not by the mountain. the Bear Creek Race club, through dues paid by parents, paid coaches to travel and may have even given an amount towards hotels if needed. But the mountain didn't recognize them off site. I'll post the reply from the team as soon as i get home.

To clarify a few things, the coaches i beleive were paid a basic salary per day worked, nothing huge, maybe $8 or $9 an hour. However, the mountain did not pay them to travel in any way. No salary, no hotel stay, no fuel or turnpike tolls. The reasoning i'm to understand was due to insurance. Not sure why they didn't suck it up and add those coaches to the policy, many other mountains do. Anyway, the head coach was Rolf Mair, a 23 year veteran of race coaching and supposedly has a fairly high level of credentials. His boss, the director of the team, Reece Mcgreggor is the son of PARA's president so he had a good deal of clout in the racing community. I don't know much about the lady who was leading the developmental groups for the team but she apparently we highly qualified as well. I can't speak for them, but knowing that they didn't get paid a whole lot better than their coaches, i'd have to say they weren't in it for the money. I doubt either of them want anything to do with whatever ski school decides is best for the new program. All I know is these two guys and the gal put an enormous amount of effort into making this team successful given terrain limitations. I'll try to see where they are headed from here.

Here's the email I got from ski school. I'll post the team's reply tomorrow. I found it interesting though that the team seemingly was split 50/50 with racers and developmental kids and their training days clearly showed how seriously they were about the non-competing kids. More shocking was in their 5 year existance, they have been qualifying kids for State championships for 4 years (could be 3)and from States, some have qualified for eastern USSA championship events each year in New England. Seems strange that they'd let the team get this good and then tell them they aren't welcome to train there. Race Team Parents and Coaches, When they began, the Bear Creek Race and Development Teams were intended to be home-mountain programs, and their primary goals were to develop versatile skiing skills (partly through race training), to prepare young skiers to pursue whatever avenue of skiing expression they desire, and to inspire a lifelong love of the sport. Over the years, however, these programs have strayed significantly from that original intent. Currently, the overriding focus on sanctioned competition and away racing often seems to take precedence over home-mountain training and development. This was never the intent or direction desired by management, and we feel that the original goals have been subordinated to a degree that is often detrimental for many participants and for other important aspects of overall operations. For the upcoming 2011-2012 season, we want these programs to return to the full spirit of the original intent. Toward that end, these programs will now operate under the direction and control of the Bear Creek Snowsports School. The goals and future direction of these programs will be guided by the original intent of Bear Creek management:

I'll post perhaps tonight, i'd also like to include the teams reply but that email is at home and i'm still at work.

Oh, that definitely did not include a season pass/lift pass. As best i could tell it was right in line with other Pa programs. The thing BC boasted was the best coach to racer ratio however. I just asked, they had 75 racers last year, 87 this year and typically hired between 28 and 30 coaches including the directors and head coach. Something else not mentioned, besides bringing in AJ Kitt again this winter, they also hired ex-USST team womens coach Shawn Goodwin and USSA director of childrens programs, Alex Krebbs to train the BC coaches. I highly doubt ski school will be able to match that talent.

I wish it were an april fools joke, and no matter what happened, it was plain wrong to send it that day. It appears ski school is going to attempt to offer a race program for non-competitive kids who won't be traveling to race. they likely won't be setting any gates either. Hard to call it 'race' program imho. I know, two sides to every story and other than what i read in the email, it has hard to explain why it was done. I will say any race program will have trouble keeping a tight leash on their racers. But knowing the director and head coach, I have faith that they expected the team to promote high levels of safety one and off the course. The mountain otoh did very little to promote it elsewhere as during the 09-10 ski season, 6 race kids were nailed by skiers/boarders, 2 requiring a sled trip down, one sent to the hospital with abroken bone.... all before the race program even started. Blame the kids for the occasional bombing, it's not at all un-common by the majority of skiers and boarders. Back to the subject, the race team charged $450 per kid per season of high level training, ski school charged $92 for a HALF day kodiak kids program. My opinion is they thought they could make more money if they killed the race team and brought the remaining kids to ski school.

i dont know that it's in my place to post their internal emails, let me see if one of the people directly affected are on here and i'll get them to post it.

I was sent the 'termination letter' from a parent down there, it clearly said they wanted to return the team to a simple developmental organization run by the ski school. All the competitive racers need to find a new mountain to train on. It's not like BC to conciously want to lose money, but they will lose a lot. Quite to the contrary, every year a good half-dozen bear creek kids made state championships, a few from there went to championship events in New England and as we speak, 3 kids are at Steamboat for the skier-cross Nationals. As small at BC was, i suspect it was strong coaching and a once supportive management that overcame the poor terrain.

Just got word that management killed the race team, telling 87 kids to go elsewhere because, get this, they were getting too good and drawing too much attention to the mountain. Ski school director susan smoll along with manager mark shrotel apparently stole the teams email list and without telling any of the team leaders, sent out an email on April 1st alerting them to the fact they were not welcomed back as a team next year. Some may not be all that upset not to see the little racers around the slopes next year, but what a idiotic and downright ignorant way to go about it. We spend good money there every year since 2000, but i no longer want to give a dime to a place that did such a cowardly thing.

knees are so overated, no need to worry about them But seriosuly, there is nothign wrong with knowing how to do it yourself. As a coach, i see just about every brand of ski and binding made and a good coach will at least be familiar enough with all equipment to be able to point out a problem.

Money is tight this year, so not sure how much will get done. However, there are genuine plans to expand, they just need one solid season of revenue to make it happen.

I thought i could figure most bindings out, but not this one. How do you check forward pressure on a Solomon 912 binding? It's about 3 years old i beleive. Thanks.

Good to see you on here Mark! Yeah, it's always best to leave snow undisturbed when the weather is messy. Any sort of movement will create some heat and melt it faster. No worries though, i don't recall an earlier opening to the season, so that means you a ton of days left to do some sliding! Rolf

Not sure why they would want to blow snow this early. Practicality dictates if you don't have a solid 4-5 days of sub-freezing weather, there is no sense to open, unless you start heading into the x-mas holiday. then you take your chances. BB's way early opening is neat, but I doubt it will do anything for their bottom line. Rest assured though, when the weather is right, Sno could theoretically have the whole mt. opened within a week.

It is a little disconcerting to hear negative talk about any mountain when it's hardly justified. Yeah, we can complain but don't delve into their financial prospects when you don't actually write the checks. Though I know quite a bit more than most ppl who work at Sno, I'm not going to comment on internal issues. Suffice it to say, the last thing the brass intends is to delay an opening day for skiing. Last year there were problems with the new snowmaking system with regards to the integration of the original pipe work. An Ex-county politicians lawsuit didn't help them get a jump on the season, and the new system only was beginning to be installed later in the fall due to litigation. Fact remains, Sno has the best system in Pa. and can clearly be open before anyone else if they choose. The quality of the snow is also top notch. The current construction has very little to do with actually opening the mountain for skiing. Though not confirmed, they plan on opening the second weekend of Dec. Our race training starts the following weekend.

Maybe you're planning on using the magic carpet? Unless you're a beginner, you won't be needing to ski around the base area anyway.

Feel free to stop by the race course and cheer on the team!

Well, nothing new at the meeting other than the mess at the bottom which will be finished up within a few weeks. The owner(s) didn't speak this time around which sorta disappointed us a bit. But they are busy none the less. Smoke has been hardwired with the best conduit/wiring as now it will be a top notch slope for USSA events. The outdoor wrap-around deck is absolutely awesome, huge and with that fancy composite boarding. They plan to install some sort of heat system out there and also make provisions for bands to play. I'm pretty stoked!