Robert2

It was raining in Jim Thorpe when I left my house and there was no signs of snow on the ground until we got all the way up to route 534. Then as we approached JF on 940 you could see that all the ponds were frozen and all the ground was covered in white.... old snow ..not the new falling snow. Its like they have their own weather systems at that altitude that makes the difference between rain and snow here and there. So I check www.weather.com for BLAKESLEE PA and PALMERTON PA to see what to expect daily. Unless its February there's always a chance of borderline thawing temps ruining the snow at Blue but Jack Frost has been really consistent nice riding for me.

What would non-skiable be to you? The only condition that I walk away from is warm sticky snow that grabs the board...like as if you were tripping over wires ankle high. We get that in spring.. late March and rarely mid season. The kicker there is one day it can be sticky and the next day ..another warm day..it can be real wet and slick and fast and great to ride.... so I don't NOT go on Tuesday if Monday was sticky. Not everyone can ride solid ice and wants to know...is it soft...is it snow..is it dusty powder over groomed ice...etc. So one man's skiable is another man's white ribbon of death.

As I arrived at JF at noon the sky was dumping fresh snow. It looked like a snow globe. The surface was real soft and wet snow cone slush... perhaps what GSS calls creamed corn. It was so soft that I sunk in 4 inches. It was so wet that I could feel the cold water envelope my boot. I usually don't feel any cold in 8 degree air so it was a real surprise to feel cold in wet snow. I thought my boot was leaking but it turned out that it was just the heat and cold transfer. No leaks. As soon as I was on the snowboard I no longer felt the cold. The ride was ballistic fast... with huge rooster tails and lots of control in this slop. On my fun scale I rate today a solid 10.... compared to Blue Mountain's #2 BLUE ICE on Friday. I really thought I'd find warm sticky muck but this wet surface was slicker than owl snot. No warm stickies today. JADIP

Yea...well... I must getting cantankerous on my old age. My kids have all grown up and moved out and my dogs all died off so the last thing I'm gonna give a shit about is anything Zaldon says. Sometimes I think you guys think I'm some 15 year old kid.

Yea... fraction of the people on other days..... I know... but she isn't going to be able to wake up the next morning for school if we wipe her out snowboarding on a Monday night so thats not going to happen. I will get to free ski at Blue this year on weekdays without her. Its just that this is the startup of the season and it took some time to get everything in place for her. I got a locker at Blue so I don't have to haul my board on the bus so now all I have to do is get there. Blue has commonly been 5 or 10 degrees warmer than Jack Frost so I'll be watching weather this winter like a hawk and planning my solo Blue day trips around the coldest days. Checking out Tuesday and Wednesday weather shows tonight below freezing temps at JF all the way to 11AM and 36 degrees at JF at 3PM while Blue will be warmer than freezing most of the night and high as 42 at 3 PM. The next day...wednesday has JF in the 20s and still under 32 degrees while BLue shows as 38 degrees. I just would not plan a bus trip to free ride on ungroomed warm stickies and I can only hope that those warm temperatures causes enough melt to make the surface real wet and slick or real wet and slushy slick for whoever does get a chance to ride at Blue the next 2 days. Nothing worse than gluey sticky warm snow to grab at your knees and ankles. Its the only condition that I walk away from. You guys know me... 5 degrees or 50 degree.... I always go out rain or shine.

I have midweek passes and take the bus.... which does not run on weekends. Been that way for 4 years. So I don't go weekends BUT if my wife learns then she will be inclined to want to go weekends because she still works a day job. We go to BLUE Friday nights because its on her way home from work. If JF was on her way home from work I wouldn't ever get to BLUE at all. If she gets hurt she gets 2 days to heal before Monday work again.

Sure he's an OK dude... but every time he adds anything to my threads its some kind of dig or poorly constructed advice so I'm not having any more of it.

YES...THIS is what I was looking for , some ways to label the surface.

Not powder unless its from the sky really doesn't cut it in my book. There has been plenty of days where the surface has been really nice soft powder that everyone agrees it was nice to ski on .... and it didn't come from new fallen snow. I SAID THIS WAS NOT to compare each mountain, just to define what we want to hear people call conditions this winter. I agree that plenty of days there has been boiler plate ice at Big Boulder. BUT this thread was not to say which mountain has ice or snow or slush today, tomorrow or any time. I wasn't trying to compare BLUE to BB. But since you brought it up... you just said yesterday was the first day this year that you really needed a ski with sharp edges. Why ? Detail why. Define the snow you saw out there and what you recommend best rides it. By the way. ZALDON is now officially in my ignore list. I've not once heard ZALDON say anything constructive so he's gone now from my viewing.

Its full tilt into the ski season and we have a few ways we have been describing the snow we found at each ski resort. Some of us do not say it the same way as others and I keep having remarks posted in my trip reports that say things like "DON'T CALL IT POWDER" and other directives, as if any one description could be the perfect decription conveying knowledge to other people who may decide to come or bail out on a ski trip based in our trip reports. Is that runon sentence the record yet? My trip reports will state what I found. Exactly what I found on the hills I visit. I have no reason to slant my reports to be anything but truthful. If its ice, its ice. So what. That just means the newbies should wear roller blade armor and get out there any go ski. If its real fluffy brand new snow... it could be very wet and sticky and VERY slow riding. So again, brand new lessons , never ever seen the snow, kinds of people can go play and not get hurt. So go ski. ... and bring a friend who never skied before. Then we have the various man made groomed conditions that nobody seems to be able to agree how to describe. So lets start with solid ice. I call this BLUE ICE. Its sort of the same thing you make in your freezer to make cold drinks. Blue ice has no features, no grooves, no detectable man made markings. Just a flat ice skating rink type of ice. BLUE ICE can be the absolute best most fun ride you ever have on a snowboard if you learn to carve by riding on the metal edges of the board instead of keeping the snowboard flat on the snow. Since there are control issues with blue ice there are MANY skiers and boarders that just declare this surface impossible to ride and just stay home. I can not SKI on BLUE ICE but I can snowboard all day on BLUE ICE. So if you can't ride BLUE ICE then go take a lesson or 3 and you may find that once you can ride BLUE ICE you never will NOT go play on the snow because someone said it was "icey". The cause of BLUE ICE is from the snow being in a warm wet slushy state then getting hit with a fast freeze. This is a VERY common event that happens at Big Boulder during warmer winters. As the sun sets and that last 10 degree temperature drop happens we get instant solidification of the snow that may have been nice and soft all day. BUT since Big Boulder opens ONLY for night skiing they manage to run their groomers in the afternoon RIGHT UP UNTIL opening the lifts. So even when it freezes there's a nice ridable surface. The key here is the grooming.... grooming closer to the time YOU the rider hits the hill. Next we have GLACIER ice. This is that last six inches of snow near the base hill grass that has leaves and mud mixed into it. Sometimes when thats ALL thats left and they can't groom anymore we get spots of dead leaves and mud mixed with solid ice that has melting and mixing features in it. This is usually very bad to ski on and is only in the last week before resorts close for good. We just don't get enough snow here to rely on natural snowfall to keep a ski resort open so the only thing you can do to stay open is make the snow and groom it every day before customers play on it. It seems to me there are a few ideas of how to make this surface worth the price of a lift ticket. Jack Frost... seems to manage to grind up this ice and make a snow cone granular surface thats sometimes fine like chalk or thick like snow cones we eat. Sometimes its dry, sometimes its wet, but its usually an inch or 2 deep EVERYWHERE. This stuff kicks up a rooster tail when you turn or sprays big time when you do a hockey stop on skis. Now I've been calling this stuff POWDER and a few people tell me I should call it SUGAR or SWEET n LOW when its real fine like chalk. My point here is that this is the stuff you WANT to ski on. It has great control... doesn't break you if you fall in it like BLUE ICE and I have been and will call this stuff groomed powder. Sometimes the grinding to make powder can't happen and groomers cut groves we call groomed corduroy. A lot of people hate corduroy because its very fast and very much like riding BLUE ICE. BUT because it has those grooves we have much better control than just plain blue ice. AGAIN if you can't ride on it...take a real lesson from a PRO. So I'm sure everyone will have their 2 cents to say about how to describe the snow .. feel free to speak up here. I just wrote this so newcomers will know what I mean when I describe a surface. THIS IS NOT THE YOUR MOUNTAIN SUCKS AT GROOMING THREAD. I'm not saying Blue can't groom for shit here. You BLUE lifers already said that a dozens times. I'm not comparing OTHER mountains to BLUE. You all know I do 50 days a year on Jack Frost hills so I have a real basis to make my descriptions accurate and not just slinging bullshit. I don't say "I GOT IT FROM A RELIABLE SOURCE". I only say what I experienced. Now what I'd really like to see is a real snowmaker and groomer from BLUE step up to the plate here and explain how they decide what condition to leave the hill in as final product. Its the groomers manufacturing the ski hills here and its really up to them when it comes to quality control.... and when its OK to make BLUE ICE in beginner areas on the heaviest visitor days of the year...Friday nights. I'll make video next week of the VALLEY SKI SCHOOL beginner learning area at the bottom of the hill near the carpet lift and drop a water bottle on the snow to show if it sticks in snow or BOUNCES on BLUE ICE like it did Friday night.

You know what I mean. And so does everyone else who rides on man made powder. It can be fine like chalk dust... or thick like snow cones...it can be dry or wet.... its still one or two inches of soft stuff that kicks up a rooster tail and has a wee bit more control than a flat blue ice hill.

Were you there? Your reliable source ain't so reliable. I'm calling it ice. It was ice. And as far as ANYONE stating conditions goes.... ITS A BIG MOUNTAIN so when someone says Paradise or Main Street.... etc was powder or soft slush or whatever.... that ain't ski school teaching areas. Get it right... don't just give a conditions report and assume the entire mountain is the same. I give a trail report every day I go play on the white stuff and I tell it like it is where I went. I don't get a "reliable source" to tell me what conditions were like. I was there. It was cloudy all day with zero sunshine and regardless of the warm 41 degree temperature it was a raw balmy uncomfortable chilly day. Sure it was nice to not be 10 degrees outside but it was still winter weather. The fact that we did not leave a foot print in this surface says it all. They did a great job shaping an ice sculpture, not groom a beginner hill. And as far as conditions being excellent go.... if I were to have gone riding I would have given a great trail report. I love to ride on solid ice. The less powder, the faster I ride, the more up on edge flight time I get to have. My track looks like 1 one inch ribbons cut in the snow when its that firm. Condition sucked on the teaching hill for newbies. Thats all there is to it. We will be back again next Friday and perhaps your reliable source will take the hike over to the valley teaching area and give an accurate conditions report better defining what the surface was really like.

This is where I have to disagree. Tilling up the ice .... seems to be no problem at Jack Frost every day of the year to produce fine granular snow cone powder...not death cookies.... out of that same boiler plate ice.

Perhaps its just my expectations of groomed surfaces to be groomed. I know its not going to be soft powder every day but it seems that every day I go to Jack Frost there has been a groomed surface that gave up some powder or snow cone granular slushy crystals. Always something to do steering control without having to totally ice skate on solid ice. I just did not have that luxury on Blue Mountain's VERY BEGINNER SKI SCHOOL teaching area. I was very surprised they did not make sure those conditions were not in the teaching area. I don't care if they don't groom the whole mountain or don't groom the whole ski school area. It just would be nice for them to grind up the ice in the 100 foot bottom teaching area so the newbies get more of chance to actually learn something instead of fear and crashing on solid ice.

She's not discouraged at all and not giving up. She was psyched up all week and excited like a little kid on Christmas morning as Friday approached. She knows that the ski season is now open all the way till the last week in March so she gets at least 10 shots at doing it Fridays for the next few months. Even more if she wants to go weekends. Even though it was ice , it was not a total loss. She learned that the armor would protect her against pain and suffering. Most... probably 99% of all brand new skiers who crash... are affected by that one bad crash that either chases them off the snow forever or delays them from trying soon again. I see this every day at Jack Frost. And the boarders who fall are much worse than the skiers because at least the skiers stand up...shake it off... and maybe walk or ski down the hill ... but snowboarders lie on their backs contemplating animals in the cloud formations or sit like potted plants for a half hour deciding what to do next. So without any injury causing her to stop and wonder about what a bad idea this might be...she knows she can get up and ride some more. We got the desired results out of the armor investment. Ice can be a good thing to learn on. Once you learn control on ice you don't ever NOT go ski because conditions are icy. I love riding blue ice. Give me blue ice any day over 8 inches of sticky fresh powder. Ice I can carve all day. There is no time limit or goal here. We will return all winter and play a little more each time gaining some more control. When she's ready to ride outside of ski school slopes is up to her progression. At least she's trying and not getting hurt. She suggested I teach her in my backyard. Not even bother with the trip to Blue. If we really wanted to practice ...on the very same ice pack surface we found at Blue... we could run the pressure washer sprayer and cover my back yard with ice. I think that about covers it. She's motivated and will be back.

I went to Blue Mountain today to teach my wife how to snowboard. I scored a locker next to benches near the lady's room in the valley lodge. I came by bus and my wife came after work by car so I met her in the parking lot to haul board and gear and when we got inside to the benches there was 3 snowboards ,poles, and skis all melting piles of slush onto the benches. I looked pretty mad I guess saying OK PEOPLE... HOW ABOUT LEANING THE WET BOARDS ON THE WALLS INSTEAD OF WHERE WE SIT TO CHANGE.... there was a mad dash to set things right but still the benches were left with piles of slush. On a night where 1000 kids get off buses to ski you would figure the day shift of skiers would have learned by now where to not leave wet gear. It probably would not have bothered me so much if it were elementary school age kids but it wasn't. It was adults that should already know better than to soak the changing benches with slush. Nimrods. Perhaps Blue mountain can post signs on the walls around the lockers saying DO NOT LEAVE WET SNOWBOARDS ON THE BENCHES. PLACE THEM HERE AGAINST THE WALL. So we dress for snow and leave off a few layers because the temperature is above freezing and my wife had no problem wearing all the heavy armor.. wrist guards, elbow guards,knee pads,hockey pants, and helmet. We went to the valley ski school slopes and stayed at the bottom near the carpet lift. THE SURFACE WAS SOLID ICE. The was nothing about it that had any crunch or give or fluff. Just blue ice. I LEFT NO FOOTPRINT when I walked.. and I weigh 245 pounds. OK .. so on my OH SHIT meter I sort of figured injury risk was high and student learning level was going to be very low. Well... I was sort of correct. Student learning level was low but there was ZERO injuries. There are two types of new snowboarders who can't snowboard. I said can't snowboard here because a third type would be a new snowboarder who goes riding in control down a hill. What I'm talking about is the ones who can't snowboard yet and are truly just learning control. You see them all the time on the mountain. The newbies that ride 20 feet and drop to the snow...in any number of bail out forms.... the knee drop.. the butt drop ..the face plant drop... the slide into first base drop... all because at some point in that tiny ride of only a short distance they realize they do not have ANY control and decide self preservation would be best right about now and just stop the ride any way they can drop. The other newbie who can't ride in control yet goes for the ride... has the balance to just flat board the trip down the hill... kicks the flat board in circles to keep it pointing straight down the hill...and just shoots the hill like snowtubing. Just one problem with these wannabees. Somewhere in that blistering speed trip down the hill they turn the board across the hill and catch an edge. The cartwheels , Tazmanian devil spinouts, scorpians... very bad crashes that happen next usually end that riders day for good. Scorpions are really nasty. Thats when you catch the edge and slam your face into the ice like a hammer then the snowboard whips up and smacks you in the back of the head. Sort of looks like a scorpion to the rest of us in the hill. So having no edging control on solid ice my wife decides she should drop when she feels out of control. Every 20 feet. And because of all the armor she never once dropped and banged a knee or anything else. Then she found out that getting up was hard work so there was the incentive to NOT drop. All in all it was a very productive first day but I must say that the surface condition robbed her of any chance of really learning and enjoying the learning today. And I definitely feel like I was mugged for the price I paid for her lift ticket to play on such crap surface. I guess I'm just spoiled by Jack Frost's grooming. We will return and give Blue a few more chances at making a beginner hill newbie friendly. Perhaps when its colder weather they do have a better surface. I just don't understand this solid ice pack in beginner ski slopes. If I don't leave a footprint and I weigh 245 pounds then thats some hard surfaces.

THIS is exactly what I was talking about. Not even criminal shit. Just the plain disrespect for everything and everybody with no regard to the fact that these kids have it made in shade.

Anyone going Friday afternoon?

Temps warmed up today...low 30s... no more frozen water bottles in my outer pockets. Blue skies all day. The surface was packed powder and rode real fast with a nice carving angle. JADIP

Its not often I agree with GSS but you know this is true. You fuck it up . You get grounded. Seems a lot of skiers and boarders are snot nose little bastard rich kids who don't know how good they got it. How many sports cost $50 to get through the door every time you go play? Rich kids have always been the only kids that went skiing. You would think they would be a bit more appreciative of what they got instead of dicking things up to the point where they get grounded. I don't know PC or SERCH and I'm not saying they are rich or snot nose bastards. All I'm saying here is I raised 3 kids and they went skiing and snowboarding and , yes , were grounded during ski season for stupid shit. I'm happy to say they are all growed up and GONE out on their own now. None of them spent any extended time in jail. There was this one time the secret service came to my house and confiscated my wife's PC cuz my son thought it would be a great idea to print money. So whatever got you grounded SERCH... I hope you learned something from it.... and don't do that again.

How did you set up that donation web site you did for cancer last year?

http://www.jfbb.com/events/2010/02/26/ski-cure "Ski for a Cure" Breast Cancer Awareness Day

Today was phenomenal. 2 inches of soft powder everywhere. JADIP

Go. Don't wait. Ever. The JF snowmakers and groomers are perfectionists at making perfect snow every day they are open running lifts. Its that simple. None of this crap like Blue mountain does where they let the snow get churned to ice and death cookies and still open hills. We do not get enough natural snow in PA to let mother nature make skiable conditions so JF and BB groom to perfection every day. I got 50 days on the snow last year at JF and I never was disappointed. I went to Blue twice and both times I got to ride on dirty sharp volcanic ash ungroomed hills. There's just no excuse for letting that happen to a piss ant tiny hill of a ski resort like Blue. As far as this weekend goes.... note the temperature this week has been consistently in the 20s... not 30s and Saturday will be in the teens........ so skiers tend to give up faster and many don't even take the drive to ski because they think its too cold to ski. If you think its too cold to ski then you just aren't dressing for it. If your hands are cold.... wear mittens instead of gloves. You will never see an Eskimo wear gloves... they wear mittens. If your mittens aren't warm enough then wear a glove liner under the mitten. IF your core ...body...chest... lungs are cold then perhaps you need to wear a facemask and never breath the cold air. If your feet are too cold in plastic ski boots... learn to snowboard. Snowboarding boots are not as form fitting and plastic as ski boots. Snowboarding boots are not worn as tight as ski boots so blood flow is not as restricted as tight ski boots. Better blood flow...means warmth. Also note that snowboarding boots are laced up and you can wear them so loose that you can fit real thick wool hunting socks that you could never stuff into a ski boot if you bought boots that just fit you with thin socks. I can't wear my ski boots in 20 degree weather but I can wear my snowboarding boots even in 20 below zero wind chills. Its going to be very cold this winter... all winter... so work on how to dress for 5 degrees and go ski. The cold will chase the goobers in blue jeans off the hill and you won't be waiting in any lift lines at JF. I didn't think the last 3 years of WMMR days has really had ski crowds. So what ...they sell a $9 lift ticket.... the WMMR crowd is a blue jean crowd..... there for the party. It rains... they go in the lodge. It snows... they go in the lodge. Its cold.... they go in the lodge. There will be live music playing in the first floor bar and the WMMR party on the second floor.... so yea...it will be a zoo but not on the hills. Go ski.