Ride Delaware ?

Back when they used to stay open until early April, I would have serious trouble getting to the HSQ because of the slow snow and flat runout.

I concur. I just didn't feel like taking the time to add every positive and negative to the post. When I switched from CB to Blue senior year, I really learned to appreciate Blue's terrain, especially the stuff on the fall line. That being said, the runout at Blue may be worse/flatter than the runout to Elk... Perhaps... It was definitely over the top. My fanboy energy got the best of me lol

Your not hoping for anything, but your tone says otherwise... Snow hater!!!

I'll take Platty any day of the week. If Elk and Platty were next door to each other and offered a joint pass, I would have no problems going there. Especially if they got Platty's snowfall total.

He's just starting to get old and hate snow like all the old people in the valley. It's wishful thinking. The season starts earlier than he makes it sound almost every year. Haters gonna hate!!!

Well then. Just based off general thoughts and media, I always considered Snotage to be part of the Poconos. I respect the argument here, and will place it outside of that area. There is no way I have ever considered Blue to be part of the Pokes. Same with BC. They are just too far south without the same climate. Say what you will haters of Elk. It may only be like the Catskills in PA, have slow lifts, have expensive passes, and be anti glades, but it is in a league of it's own. If they ever consider it to be part of the Poconos, the other Pocono mountains should just be thankful to be included in the same breath.

Nationwide Fios stoppage?

Must not have been a drastic one if they were blowing t2b. Temps were either even or way colder in the valley. I can't imagine it would all melt. Didn't Toast say it was a decent amount, just not enough to groom out and open? In whales it should be ok?

I have mediacom down here, and it blows donkey dick. Had Time Warner in Maine and was fairly impressed. Downloads were fast and customer service was friendly and quick. Hit it on a promo and got 30 megabit dl for $50.

Manmade 200' vertical? The travesty!!! I'd rather remind myself of that and not go than ski on that crap...Glad you guys got after it. Enjoy!!!

It looks similar to their offering several years ago when they opened real early. They just squeezed through the warm spell. I hope the same happens for you guys again, even if it is only Freedom.

Another loss because of GSS. Nice guy who just got too much shit for no reason.

I think your taking this whole climate change thing a little too seriously. I think you should still be able to count on PA resorts being open by the first weekend in December. May not be 100%, may not be deep, but there will be turns. Maybe turns at BC are rare before X-Mas, but everyone else, c'mon man, stop the hype train.

Snowmaking at CB? All the webcams looked pretty green to me...

No worries KC. As long as you can continue to provide inside information, we dont mind if you work there or not. Nobody can ever know the future, but if they can grow the mountain and water park, and you keep involved in some way shape or form, maybe there will be a job for you sometime in the future.

Maybe even sell some more of those season passes they have been trying so hard to get rid of...

KC will have more info (did we ever figure out if he is still working for Sno/Montage?), but now that the water park is built, and the debt is relatively lower due to the bankruptcy and sale, I bet that this ownership group can make a better run at it. If it ends up on the sale block, I think it will be because they want to get rid of it because of appreciation and growth, not because of bankruptcy.

You should probably reverse that. Greek Peak is the one that went bankrupt building an indoor water park and hotel, not Elk. Elk is quite fiscally conservative. When their trees are big enough for lumber, they will be a natural gold mine. Now that I'm done being a jackass, Greek has its defining qualities. It gets more snow, has glades, and has a comparative lift infrastructure (although they added a high speed quad?). It is definitely more of a resort. I know Elk doesn't have the most challenging terrain, but I was quite bored at Greek after a couple hours. Its been a long time, but I still think I would enjoy Elk more. I would be willing to give it a shot again though. I guess thats why we all have our opinions.

There is tons of pent up demand early season. I think anywhere in PA opening early would attract customers, and with their colder climate, Elk would have the best t2b option for that early season opening. Just because I've moved on to bigger and better things doesn't mean I wouldn't love to own one of my favorite resorts. I'm sure you would wouldn't mind owning Blue. Not to mention, there are so many things that could be done at Elk to increase skier base, that it would really produce some results.

Elk's webcam is up and running, and everything is very green. I just don't think early or late season is part of their business plan. If they had on site lodging, I would imagine that they would try harder to be open for T-Day. The things I could change if I owned that place...

If Blue likes to have a deep base, CB likes to have mountains of snow. Why wouldn't BB have on their lights if they are making snow?

Thank you for throwing out a number that had nothing whatsoever to do with my question. The operating company, Art Berry, may make $30 million a year, but how much do they pay to the property owners (EPR) to use that property each year? $1 million? $2 million? The operator and owner are separate, so thank you for ignoring that fact.

I think a bunch of it will depend on marketing. The addition of the hotel and indoor water park will make the resort "more family friendly," and will give those who get cold or bored something to do. Also, I think the indoor water park, coupled with lodging deals, will extend the shoulder season that normally isnt warm/cold enough for the outdoor park/skiing. Unfortunately, with that expense and debt service, I would bet that they will outprice the market. Additionally, they have significant competition already. I wonder if a "village" with amenities is next?

I've always wondered how much the operators lease the mountain for and how the specifics work. If they paid $69.5 million for it, then they must be getting a good chunk of revenue per annum.

I agree. When I first went to CB, their water park location in the middle of all the ski attractions seemed ridiculous. I understand that they are limited on their flat land, so I see why it went where it did, but I think that Blue has the luxury of flat land (both where it will be located, and in the valley) that they didnt. The views at Blue will be sweet too.