method9455

HE'SSSSSS BACCCCCKKKKKKKK!!!!!!! Yea Skizilla and you should be proud of how you just don't respond when someone completely proves your points wrong, I guess its easier to make fun of Papa's children or something, I see how you are more mature than us. Of course asking a mountain rep a specification about a lift that rarely runs is too mean, we should have made fun of the mountain reps child instead right? In case you wanted to take a stab at trying to continue arguing your point from last week (rather than bury your head in the sand, cover your eyes, and ignore that your opinion might be wrong)- http://www.paskiandride.com/forums/index.p...=8095&st=20

It won't be April 15th, that impossible, hunter barely makes it that far and their weather is much better than ours (and they go until the grass makes it impossible). I would be happy if JFBB just stays open until the last of the snow melts, as opposed to closing when the money isn't there anymore.

A new lift would make me drive up there and buy a ticket to check it out. It would never be my season pass mountain because its so much farther than any of the other ones from me, but I would drive up once or twice a year and buy a ticket like I do now at a handful of places - the snowmaking looks good, the park looks good, throw up a good lift and I'll be there.

Hi, who are you? Someone who shouldn't be posting here apparently - I'd say one of the idiots banned recently but you write much too coherently for that. So you joined today just to post that - I would be someone who works for Camelback. So if you want us to get the tech specs - how about YOU give them to us, or better yet, tell us what the wind speeds are in question. Since none of us can get up there to find out for ourselves what the wind speed is (since the lift is closed how can I get check out the wind speed with my anometer? And obviously any forecast for the area is wrong because the wind speed is a very specific local condition - the only people with that data would be Camelback employees) As for the safe wind limit on the lift - its hard to find out for that exact model becuase I don't know what model it is beyond a Dopplymar 4 person hispeed detachable. However I'll tell you this - Dopplymar can build lifts to operate in much higher wind speeds than what you are dealing with, if anything it was an improperly speced/ and/or cost cutting measure to buy a lift that closes this often. The engineering and technology is there, its proven, and if Camelback has a lift that is unable run in their (seemingly routine) weather conditions - Camelback screwed up the order. As for wind speeds being an issue because the loading area is exposed - from their own literature go to page 5 - you will see a glass wall running the full length of the unloading area for exactly that purpose. I couldn't find technical data on wind speed limits just yet - but give me a little time and I will.

As a very serious sailor I can tell you that 99% of the time people grossly overestimate wind speed. Even sailors will "swear it was 25 miles an hour" when in fact the anometer is topping out at 18 and averaging less. Wind force does not go up linearly with speed so the human body is bad at feeling it correctly. 45 miles an hour of wind a ridiculous amount of wind, in general over about 40-45 miles an hour people will start to get knocked over - much less ski, so I wouldn't be surprised if the lifts are shut down in a consistent 35 mph wind. I know when its blowing 35 we're harnessed in on a sailboat - much less sitting on a chairlift. I would be when its "blowing 40" on the top of Camelback - its more like a cold 25. Show me an anometer that says otherwise and I'll believe you.

I see what hes saying - there are lots of kids in parks around here who are skateboarders who strap on snowboards and go for it. They can usually jib very well but can't go fast, can't ride anything steep, and can't hit jumps right. To make a generalization it isn't as much of an issue for skiers because most of them came from regular skiing - there aren't many fruit booters who twin tip in the winter (or not many skiers admit they do it in the summer). As for the gear - I can take my park board out of the park and ride pretty good on it in some conditions, but on hardpack/ice forget it thats some ugly shit. But pull out my freeride board and I'll keep up with anyone here - so the gear has a lot to do with it, but not everything. I'll be passing 90% of the people on the mountain no matter what conditions/board I have because most people don't go all that fast. Once you start hitting big jumps right (i.e. clear the knuckle on a 30 footer and ride away) you are a good rider/skier, there is no way to ski in and out of a jump at the speed you need for that without being able to carve - where as you can skid around at 15 mph and jib and hit 10 foot jumps and never learn how to ride. but for a big table or step down - you need to actually go fast. Im in the middle, nothing feels better than landing a new trick - except knee deep powder, a sick glade run, something that is rediculously steep, or a 2,500 vertical foot run that you bombed the shit out of - none of which you will find around here. So here I ride park, and when I travel I free ride, its a good mix and really I don't find a place I'm not having fun.

No joke its freaking cold out. I just walked to class with a t-shirt and a hoodie and froze my ass off, back to the winter coat and hat apparently.

1 2 3 4 5 Nope, no one EVER complains about any other mountains. Only poor defenseless camelback. Also note the response was so fierce from the board there are no longer any mountain reps from JFBB - where in the past we had a few. Not only that but paskiandride.com is no longer linked from the JFBB website. Yep, the only bitching comes from the Camelback forum.

BULLSHIT ON THAT. I personally resent that because if you look back this year - the loudest/fiercest bitching was in the JF/BB forum of any when they fired the ParkLogic guys, instead of just Papa bitching hardcore and a few agreeing it was a bunch of people freaking out, a petition, several threads where everyone agreed - that was a hell of a lot more harsh than anything here so. Look around a bit before you start to distort things.

no

As for the brit thing - the Alps are having a horrible year this year so that could have something to do with it. Boarders - the percentage of boarders at places like Mountain Creek, JFBB, and other mountains around here is disproportionately high. When I was in Tremblant it amazed me to see very few boarders, and of those that did board they where all really damn good. The entire snowboarders sucking/scraping up the mountain stereotype here doesn't ring true at bigger mountains. Although I don't think Killington is as board averse as you got the impression you got. Most snowboarders from around here hit up Mt Snow, Stratton, Okemo or Killington. A few mention Jay Peak - but in general you won't hear of many trips to Sugarbush, Stowe, Smuggs, or going up to Sugarloaf, or anything like that from snowboarders. The foreign employees - this time of year the cheap labor is in school (college or high school) and for the money they pay it isn't worth it for a 20 something year old who didn't go to college to work there when there are construction jobs and stuff like that with higher pay. So you get kids on their breaks from school working here - thus the foreigners. I've considered going and being a liftie at Snow Park NZ this summer, but I have no one who would do it with me so it kind of sucks and isn't going to happen.

I don't know too many specific details about high speed detachable lifts beyond what I've read online, but I feel like there is a better way than the current system. The risk of detach is high plus the cadencing thing - I've been throwing some ideas around in my head but I'm not sure if they're entirely practical.

The most frustrating thing for mountains is that customers don't realize the season can last so long and it empties out. The best thing for me is that no one realizes the season lasts so long and there are no crowds for my favorite conditions of the year.

I don't get quite what you mean - although it might be cuz I've never been to elk. On the closing times - Mountain Creek closes Granite/Southern sojourn early to get people back towards the base areas. Tremblant closes Le Edge/Solelil to get people back to the bases early, Mount Snow closes some lifts early to get people back to the base, its just been my experience that its normal and kind of makes sense. Its a bit annoying (i almost got a ticket clipped at Tremblant for ducking the rope on Solelil about 2 seconds after they closed it becuase I knew I could get to the bottom before the people who had just been let onto it - the patrollers were nice though and just pointed me back onto the main face)

Yea but march/april if you get one of those randomly warm days in the 50's or 60s it will wipe out more snow in a day than will melt in the whole month of january. Plus the sun gets much warmer in march that contributes a lot. If you look at the sunny versus the shady side of a halfpipe in march the sunny side is a foot or more shorter.

Its fairly standard to roll the lift closing times so that people are forced to leave and get back to the base area, I can't think of a mountain I've been to where you can't get back to the base area in one run that doesn't roll the lift closing times.

I don't have so much of a problem with them cutting line when they are with an instructor or in practicing and going back up to an instructor - thats what they paid for. I also don't mind them having a trail closed - thats what they paid for, though I would appreciate the mountain posting that razors is closed from 8-10 for an event - like other mountains do. The bigger issue to me is them being "king of the mountain" everywhere else. Where is the sense of entitlement among racers thread? Lets get fair and balanced in here jeez.

I was very disappointed with Mount Snow when I went up, I would say check Okemo out its usually very good, but spend a day at Stratton as well. Both will be very good. Mount Snow maybe better now its been about a month since I was up there but at the time 1/2 the parks where open and they didn't have one jump that was nice.

Exactly - Freeride program is about 2/3s of the cost of race team, without a closed trail. I wouldn't want the free ride program to get a closed trail just like I don't want the race team to get a closed trail (although honestly, if you have a trail named RACEWAY then only close that one). I've seen three approaches to race teams. The way Tremblant and some big mountains do it - pick a different trail everyday and close it entirely for the race team, but that is 1 or 2 out of 90 something trails. I have no problem with 1-5% of the mountain being closed for racers, no problem. It is announced on the ski report the night before what trails will be closed The way Mountain Creek does it - one trail is almost always closed, 100% of the time. I think I've skied it two or three times in 3 seasons of 30+ days up there, usually early or late season or like a monday morning when there is no racing, but generally it doesn't even pop into my head as a race trail. The racers stay on it all day - basically have their own lift, have their own trails, never both anyone and we don't bother them. It says on the trail report what will be closed for racing. The Blue Mountain way to do it - where you close one of the 4 best trails on the mountain (tell me again why there are no park passes, something about all customers being able to ski everywhere I believe?), without posting it on the ski report, and then the race team goes and users other trails, AND fucks around in the park. I don't see the differance between a racer slashing across the landing when I'm taking a jump, and me running through the middle of their course during a practice. I could see closing the trails for race days, but on practice days bullshit. They close the park for competitions so it would be equal, but if they come ruining things in the park then I don't see why it doesn't go the other way around. I honestly wouldn't have a problem with the race team kids if they closed a trail and stayed on it, but they close a trail and then still go and fuck things up elsewhere - thats where the problem is. I see why you would expect that for $700 or whatever it is, but make it clearer to the rest of the customers what trails will be closed - and keep the race team kids in line. Just cuz mommy & daddy shelled out for them to be in racing day care doesn't mean I have to put up with them possibly injuring me when I paid $500+ out of my own pocket to ride the mountain during the times I can get up there. If I could come midweek mornings to not have to deal with them - I wouldn't pay the extra for a peak time period pass. I'd also like to add that my move when they were taking up the whole open trail like that (not seeing how it was setup but from your description) would be to drop in and use their human gate course right in the middle of it all - hey its an open trail and they do it in the park, get all of them good and pissed off, and what could they do?

Yea and 0 hassle, there is a guy there that checks it the whole time so I have it attached to my pants and just walk by - but its gated with the like riot style metal gates so you have to walk through a 3 foot wide section - no one sneaks in/ducks ropes etc. Also, its coming off the gondola so you don't have your gear on anyway. The reason it works for Creek is that 4 of the park trails start in one location, so they make all park pass controlled, then the other 3 parks (or should it be 4, is flying fox ever going to be park again?) and the pipe open to everyone and put begginer stuff in the small ones for people to learn on. Then only the advanced riders who can hit ollie on rails and 25+ foot jumps are in the main park, (like 1/4 of the total park rats), and no non park rats cruising through - it is practically empty on the indian and independance runs no matter what time of day you go. Khyber is flatter so sometimes the features there are more easy/intermediate (like when they had the 40 foot wide box there last season) and it gets crowded with kids who are in that kind of inbetween stage. But the other two trails are very advanced and never get crowded or beat up.

Well I don't think I've ever personally attacked an employee at CB, where as all the attacks on Papa are personal (come on - making fun of his kids? Sure he throws them out there all the time but if you where in person would you honestly insult a guys kids when trying to prove a point?) And then the other half of the arguments are STOP COMPLAINING - which to me is an absolutely ridiculous notion. This is a message board about camelback, if he walked into your church and started complaining about Camelback I'd see the uproar, but seriously where else would you complain about it? And what else do you expect from a message board? Its every anonymous person in the world bitching about what makes them mad, especially something like this where the customers are at the mercy of decisions by people in a company who don't post here. Its not like we're the MRG co-op forum and we make decisions - we buy tickets based on what the people here say but honestly we have 0 power. So if Papa is pushing so hard to stop people from going to Camelback let him and shut up about it - I have a new plan for your, every time you see a post by him dont' read it because you know what it will say and then it will reduce the clutter of all these people saying "shut up we're sick of hearing it". Guess what - YOUR NOT HEARING IT. You are choosing to read something that is basically titled "I'm about to rip on Camelback for the next post" every time his name comes up, it is very easy to avoid. As for the buyer be ware - that is a good argument, especially because as a season pass holder you get a discount on price for buying sight-un-seen. This is how I got screwed on my Mountain Creek pass this year and I bitch about it (though less often than Papa) - but I have a simple solution. I'm not buying one next year. If Papa buys a Camelback pass next year we can call him a hypocrite and I wouldn't take him seriously then either - Camelback is done with parks in my book, no matter what they say they will never put a good one together. No matter how much they improve it just won't catch up to the other mountains, so I don't expect to go there unless my dad wants to go ski for a day, but my passes are going to Blue & JFBB next year - screw mountain creek too. Until next year, I say let him bitch all he wants. If this time next year he is still complaining - thats a different story. I think the buyer be ware statement is very evident at Camelback - don't buy a pass if you want the promises delivered on, don't head up based on the east side of the mountain being open unless it is sunny, not windy, semi-crowded, above freezing, and has had deep snow on it for a long time, don't believe the ski report.

Yea its a fact, simple physics. You have a shorter moment arm when you move your bag leg towards the tail, think if you have a longer wrench it is easier to turn a bolt. That is really over simplifying it, but a good way to look at it. Sadly too much of my homework recently has been about deflection loads and composites - which hurts my head at the moment, but suffice to say 99.9% of the time it should be harder to bend the board when you move your stance back. If it feels easier - you are probably more leaning back and riding the board unflexed at an angle, than pressing the board. If you look at one of those nice Jeremy Jones nose presses, its not the board on the nose, its the board bent right in front of the front binding. Inserts also have a lot to do with flex, the more you have, the stiffer it is underfoot. Also bindings can effect how it flexes too. I'm still turn on the ollie harder or easier when the back foot is farther back, I don't know if I got stronger or the width helped but when I moved my foot back I felt I popped higher - but it was deeper into the season so it could just have been muscles building up. I haven't done the engineering on it, I don't really care enough to find out for sure.

As for the condition report topic - honestly the only time I look at it is early season for the next day trail openings. Being 50 minutes - 1+ hours from the mountain, and almost 90% of the time being in my boots waiting for opening chair - I leave well before anyone could possibly get up to the mountain and actually ski even one run, come down and post a report about it. So early/late season I check for what trails will be open the next day (based on snowmaking/melting), and then head up and accept what I get whether it be amazing or "horrible" because if I have a day to ride I'll ride no matter what it is, and enjoy it. The "surface condition" on every report is not accurate - even if they're not trying to be disingenuous. The difference between 8am, 3pm, and 8pm is 3 totally different days of riding. I check the weather and check what people said about yesterday. If it was slushy yesterday, and cold tonight, it will be icy in the morning and probably slushy in the afternoon, and perfect midday. If it was nice yesterday and below freezing, it will be nice the next day. If it was nice yesterday but above freezing and below freezing the next day, expect hardpack. Thats pretty much what I do and no ski report will be early enough for it to effect me anyway so I'll post what I actually see when I get home for the afternoon crowd and they can get a chance to decide. That being said - non listed closures PISS ME OFF, because that is the only thing I do look for. Nothing is worse than seeing your favorite trail "open" for the first time of the year, to show up and it not be even closed to covered. Or to show up and the report changed overnight and half the trails are closed because of melting.

I know many MC pass holders in that situation, I myself used mine once, had I not been hurt I would estimate 8 days on it (1 per weekend for 2 months) and I would go and buy tickets elsewhere rather than use it, not only has the mountain been the usual horrible conditions/terrain/crowds of yesteryear, but the park is 1/4 of what it was in the past, was very late to open, and the snowmaking was embarrasing. This year is going to cost them a huge amount of season pass holders - and they tried to make up for it with the season pass holder only weekends at south, but honestly, the bitter taste is in everyones mouth from when we sat around for a month while the poconos where open.

This is where your argument falls apart. This was my big problem with JFBB when they kicked out ParkLogic (and you can't say that I wasn't vocal as hell during that, or that I don't give constructive ideas to Camelback which get completely ignored in all the threads I post a litany of pictures showing how they could easily improve). He is not continuing to patronize a business, he is using what he paid for already. What you are basically telling him is that, yes you bought your car and you complain that it doesn't run as advertised - but you've already bought it so SHUT UP ABOUT IT and stop using it if you don't like it. Doesn't make much sense now does it? Its not like he is running up and buying lift tickets every time he wants to get angry while on skis. And the bottom line is - that pass purchase was based on a HUGE AMOUNT OF MARKETING THAT HAS IN NO WAY TRANSLATED TO ON THE HILL PERFORMANCE. People say - hey if you don't like park go somewhere else. Ok, but where was the pre-season marketing saying "Our park may suck, but we have the best freeriding in the poconos". Instead it was - New zaugg this, new pipe that, park pass this, big improvement in the park that - and what was the result - not that. If you read his posts - that is the bottom line. I can understand if you don't like the delivery, but honestly compare Papa Steeze to the papa haters who have cropped up and he is about a thousand times more mature than you guys.