sibhusky

Well, even buying in advance, it would have been $500-600 to fly (don't know why, it's been as low as $268 in the past, I was stunned). Then, I'd have to rent a car when I got there. We were meeting with a lawyer and nothing was firm in advance (IT NEVER IS WHEN I GO THERE), so driving was the only "flexible dates" option. I think I did this four times last year. Now that I live out west, I've become the queen of serious drives, although I am not (alone) capable of more than nine hours. I never stop for lunch, just to pee and pump gas. With Siblet, I can do longer drives, but NOT clear to Denver in one day, I'd be a cripple from sitting for 17 hours or so.

Just drove to Denver and back. Never saw any $4 gas...well, I did get Premium the whole way (was trying to find stuff without ethanol when possible). I paid as little as 3.67, up to 3.97 for Premium. Also discovered that I get much better mileage out of Shell (28, one tank), Sinclair (5 tanks worth, averaged 25 MPG) and in the past, Chevron (trip to Oregon coast showed 3 MPG more than Texaco). Sucking big time: Conoco and Cenex (23 MPG). I was driving at 78 MPH for over 1000 miles each way, aside from construction slow downs, no appreciable driving pattern difference tank to tank.

An article in my local paper said it was next to a large rock, which they may have thought would protect them. But the avalanche was very deep, 15-25 feet, and the rock wasn't 25 feet high.

They found the bodies. MSNBC

Picture of search They are presumed dead.

Not sure how many of you have been following this story: Jackson Skiers missing

My comment was directed at toast, not you. I talked about the landing and he was saying it was a windlip (no duh, I knew what the TAKEOFF was), which doesn't translate necessarily into windpack underneath, could be anything.

ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL, there is no question. However, little kids are subject to their parents' interest in transporting them. I am sure a good number of these kids will NOT move on to bigger and better teams. For one thing, truth be told, there is not a lot to choose from in the Poconos to begin with. If all these kids were going to join teams in New England or the Rockies, it would be different. They are going to be dispersed, if they are "lucky", among the other teams of PARA. Can't speak to the program at Bear Creek at ALL in terms of its quality, but the other teams/coaches are not necessarily BETTER just because the mountain they are on is bigger. The fact is, many good skiers, not just Lindsey Vonn, came out of Buck Hill, demonstrating a consistent quality program.

I don't think Buck Hill is much of a ski area, either, but it has consistently produced fantastic racers. I don't know a thing about the ski team at Bear Creek. I can say that 30 years ago I skied BC when it was Doe and that's about it. But, the area itself does not define the race team.

I wasn't referring to the departure point, only the landing point. You can have cornices where the landing is fluff because they are on the lee of the ridge.

K, didn't remember that.

Actually looks like windpack...I'm curious, did you "stick" the landing? (not sure what you would call it, my daughter used to be in gymnastics...) or did you do a somersault?

Two runs?? Were you sick?

Oops, you're right and I knew they were m-bike's, don't know why I typed timeless instead. No wonder I didn't recognize the place, when Siblet raced there, I sent my husband for some odd reason.

Timeless, where are the pictures from? Went to your Photobucket and couldn't tell from that, either. Are these at Blue? Must be the east since there is still grass showing through this late in the season....

Is there no way the mountain would allow an "outside" group to set up gates and train? Although our mountain has sort of cast us off, it is possible to PAY for part of the mountain to be used at night for midweek training, etc. And if the parents can get a fundraising engine going, they should be able to pay for coaches. On-mountain office and team space becomes an issue, but maybe it can be rented? After all, now (unless they were bursting at the seams space-wise) they have empty areas in the building not being used because that is where the team was. I would think that if the mountain is approached in a way for them to see this "race club" as an outside group willing to pay for services, this situation (given sufficient parental support in terms of labor and fundraising) could be turned around. I think the mountain's motivation needs to be figured out and then a way found to accommodate that and re-think the way the team is operated. After all, most places accommodate bus groups, etc. This would be sort of a regular "special group".

Jeff thinks this is his personal playground and uses it to "spin" discussions all the time. No news there. I remember when this site was in its infancy and was a spin off from a site that had corporate-type moderation (no criticism of the ski area allowed), now it's "moderated" solely to please Jeff.

Wow. And that's East Coast pay. Siblet was paid more than that and she had no Race Coach certs, only on-hill experience. She plans to get some of the certs before next season to justify a pay increase. The coaches out here that travel due get gas and food and hotel reimbursement, not sure about the hours. The head coach, however, was a salaried, not hourly, employee, not sure about the two "main" assistants. Anyway, Rolf Mair has Level 200 certification. He also has various "officials" certifications. Reece McGregor has strictly "officials" certifications, no coach certs.

Type 3 just means he likes his bindings cranked up, it means ZIP when it comes to actual ability. There's all kinds of idiots out there cranking up their bindings to make up for the fact that their balance is off.

I have an interest in the death of any racing program, even if it's not my mountain. It's a sad sign of the times.

The POINT is that the ski bending is good. And, Jeff, if you weren't such a gaper, you'd be able to ski them on anything. I think your requirement to use bigger skis is just a sign of how much help you need to ski certain conditions. Or a conviction that anything bigger must be better.

Jibhonk, you're participating in a thread and you don't care about the topic, so why participate? GSS is right, if this were affecting you, you'd care. That's his point.

Sounds to me like they didn't like people getting a glimpse of other mountains, they didn't like paying coaches' expenses for trips, didn't like the higher salary demands of race coaches, and saw going elsewhere as lost revenue. Good luck on the kids skiing as independents, they must find a coach to "represent" them in captains' meetings. I'm sure coaches from other mountains will be just thrilled to worry about kids they are not being paid to represent. As a parent, I'd go elsewhere for racing. Not clear to me is if the head coach has changed? That might explain a lot. They have to be race coach certified beyond just local hill training in order to attend races, etc. The salary that the mountain is willing to pay might not cover the demands of a program director/head coach. Our Foundation has always subsidized the salaries of the main coaches in addition to what they were paid by the ski school. Just managing the logistics of who is going to be gone where each weekend for the different levels of competition, along with transport and any other trip requirements is way beyond the duties of a guy who just shows up to train.

From Volkl: From Backcountry: From theskiingexperts.com: So, I'll revise my statement that they are not meant for racing to they are meant to handle off piste while still handling the groomers. And basically, he's not asking if they are the BEST for powder, he's asking if they should bend. They do.

Yes, I initially thought the number unlikely, thought they must be counting AJ Kitt and friends in their coach numbers. Then I counted our coaches, compared it to the "roster" on the USSA site for the kids on the team and came up with roughly a 4 to 1 ratio here as well. I'm not sure that all the kids are USSA members, however, since some of the younger ones, on the Junior Race Team, I don't think ever went to "real" races, only Tommy Moe. But once you start considering you have someone setting courses, someone at the top of the run, someone at the bottom, coaches with kids elsewhere on the mountain who are not currently running gates, then more coaches with the kids on the team who are away at races, you start seeing how the number of coaches needed really adds up.