trackbiker

You might want to look at that map again

Thanks for the post g15. The website is a 100% improvement over the old one. Don't know if you control this or just plug in the map but aren't the glades actually between Upper Fast Track and Snake? The only other thing I would say is keep the conditions and lifts updated daily. I think there were times last year when it wasn't accurate as to what was open and closed. That may be someone else's responsibility. If so please pass it on. Oh yeah, and get rid of the moose!

I'm thinking that SnowTime,Inc will pick it up at a fire sale price. Peak Resorts picked up enough areas recently to keep them busy for a few years. If Sno has enough capital to hang on for 2 to 3 years they may make it. If SnowTime or Peaks aren't interested, and the price drops low enough, Camelback may buy them. If the Tea Partiers get in, it will tank with the rest of economy and close.

Good one poconoskibum247! Is your day job writing for "The Onion"? Your next column should be about the Cookie Making Machine Blue Mt. bought to groom their slopes with.

I don't know which is best or worst but after bitching about Sno's site until they upgraded it, I will nominate them for "Most Improved Wesite." The others all provide the information that I need pretty easily; Trail Map, Prices, Hours of Operation, and Conditions. I'm with sibhusky on this one. "I want information, easily found. End of story." I don't need a lot of razzle dazzle. Just give me the facts. I'm a strong proponent of the KISS theory of design...Keep It Simple Stupid.

Below are the discounts that were offered on the township recreation departments last year. Elk always has the smallest discount. Weekend tickets were only $6.00 less than the window. For other areas the discounts were higher and some weekday and night tickets offered a decent discount, especially if you are paying for 2 or more. Wow! Just looked at Blues site and weekend tickets are going to $57.00 this year! Bear Creek Weekday $29.00 Weekend $50.00 Night (4pm to 10pm) $22.00 Big Boulder/ Jack Frost Adult Midweek $34.00 Adult Weekend $40.00 Youth Midweek (ages 7-18) $30.00 Youth Weekend (ages 7-18) $32.00 Night Midweek (3pm to close) BB Only $24.00 Night Weekend (3pm to close) BB Only $26.00 Blue Mountain Weekday $35.00 Weekend/ Holiday $44.00 Night $27.00 Weekday Tubing $19.00 Weekend Tubing $26.00 Camelback Midweek Open to Close $39.00 Weekend/ Holiday Open to Close $49.00 Midweek Night $26.00 Weekend/ Holiday Night $29.00 Elk Mountain Midweek $41.00 Weekend/ Holiday $50.00 Shawnee Mountain Midweek Lift $32.00 Weekend Lift $38.00 Sno Mountain (Montage) Midweek $34.00 Weekend $42.00 Youth Midweek $24.00 Youth Weekend $28.00

KCSKI, Thanks for your post. Sno has made some serious improvements in the last few years. I think the late opening the first season was because they were installing the new snowmaking system IIRC. Those fan guns make great snow and the conditions at Sno last all day and into the night while other areas are skied off by 10:00 in the morning. I really enjoy night skiing there and think that an investment in better lighting would help to pick up their business midweek. Keep us informed in any improvements they plan on making this season.

I think Elk is definetely worth the extra drive. Camelback and Blue have high speed lifts but they get skied off by 10:00am on weekends. You can ski Elk all day on good conditions most weekends unless there's a thaw/freeze cycle. The trails are long and there is a lot of variety. You'll likely get to the top faster even on their fixed grip lifts because you won't be waiting in line as long as at CB or Blue. They have the best bump run in PA in Tunkhannock. They do have the best grooming in PA. I think their secret is they wait until they have just enough time to groom before they open. Usually they're still grooming if you get there for opening. Blue starts grooming when they close. Thus the frozen cordoroy. If you're into parks it's not the place for you. I agree that they should add some tree runs. I'm sure they're getting the pressure and this may happen in the future. In lieu of a season pass you may just want to buy a bunch vouchers from your local recreation department. Last year was $50.00 for weekends and weekdays $39.00 IIRC. If you're going to ski there less than 13 days that may be the way to go. Have fun and give us lots of reports and photos this season!

I thought there was talk of expanding to the east when Blue put in the Six-Pack. They supposedly saved the double chair they took down for future expansion to the east of Paradise. It always seemed to me the HSQ was designed so that there would eventually be a trail when you turned left as you got off. But that was all when Ray Tuthill was still alive. Seems like plans now are to expand attractions for the other three seasons of the year. I think it took them 3 yrs. to add one trail after they put in the Six-Pack. It may eventually happen but I think there are other priorities now. As far as Elk is concerned, I think they would put in a high speed four or six in front of the lodge before they add any new trails. Elk is a well run ski area and they seem to have a good formula of making small improvements every year as opposed to going into debt to make major ones that would take a long time to pay off or maybe bankrupt them in a bad year. Best skiing in PA. Don't let the "slow" lifts keep you away. They run their fixed grip lifts at the top speed allowed by law and the terrain is worth the wait. When you take into account the long lines for the high speed lifts at Camelback and Blue, you probably can get to the top faster at Elk on a weekend and the terrain is much better and doesn't get skied off as fast, if at all. I still don't understand why hoards of people will stand 10 or 15 or more minutes in line for a "fast" 4 minute lift when they could sit on a "slow" lift and be at the top in 8. I miss the old double at Blue.

You'd hit it regardless that the founder of that far right wing place thinks you're the antichrist? What Jerry Falwell Thinks about Jews I wouldn't support that institution if they had the best champagne powder in the world; and I'm not even Jewish. On second thought, maybe he's right and Doug is the antichrist!

I was just in Utah this past weekend. Alta 17" of nice dry powder and Snowbird had 10" more on top on Sunday. No crowds the tourists are all gone. They still have a TON of snow.

Better snowmaking, grooming, trails, lodge, lifts, more vertical, bumps, better service, prices?.... GP is great when they have snow, and if you like the woods, but otherwise, Elk beats it hands down if you're talking snow sports and not water parks.

If you're taking a beginner or little kids those are the weekends to go to one of the "off the map" places like Tanglwood, Ski Big Bear, Eagle Rock, or Alpine Mountain. No crowds and the conditions stay great into the night. Nothing too steep but beginners and kids aren't going to ski the black diamonds anyway. And they aren't going to get run over by out of control New Yorkers either. I skied Alpine Mountain for the first time Saturday night just to check it out. Nothing too steep except for two short headwalls in front of the lodge. Conditions were great. No ice anywhere. I think I was one of 4 people skiing after 6 o'clock. Lift lines??? They only had one of the two top to bottom lifts running when I got there at 4:30 and there more empty chairs than full ones. If you're taking the kids for the first time or a beginner, check out one of these places.

If the 'skills get dumped on the place to be is Plattekill. Only 1100' vert. but lots of steep trails and old school narrow winding trails. Ski anywhere policy when there is snow in the woods. They have mountain biking in the summer so there are plenty of woods lines on the mb trails. Old school type place. No high speed lifts. Great old lodge with a pool table up stairs. Never any crowds. Great place to go on a holiday weekend if there is natural snow. Bellayre has some steeps but they all seem the same and the vertical is just on the upper mountain. Still want to check out Windham sometime but on a weekday.

Thanks for the report and pics. I've been planning on doing a Windham/Plattekill trip but Plattekill needs some more snow. Never been to Windham but friends tell me I would like it better than Bellayre where I have been. Were the crazy lines worse because of the wind hold on the HSQ? In your one pic the lift looks empty. Have you ever been to Plattekill? Great place but not much snowmaking. Your reports are always so much better due to the nice pics. Thanks for making the effort to take the shots. My camera and cell phone batteries always seem to die in the cold. Those are some good German beers they had on the menu!

Those indoor water parks are really popular with families and there is no learning curve like in skiing. My kids are in college and they would still love a day of skiing and then a night in the water park. I hope that they're over the hump and we start seeing some improvements on the ski area. Just hope it doesn't get too crowded.

mbike-ski, I hope that your investment pays off and I'm sure eventually it will. I even thought of buying a condo there because they were so cheap. They were actually auctioning them off a few years ago when realestate was booming. The water park finally being open should add some demand but it is still empty during the week. Forgive me if I'm a little sceptical, but I've seen expansion plans on every trail map for 30 years and they've done nothing but install a used chairlift in place of a T-bar and add one new trail. The plans have changed over the years but that latest plan really adds nothing to the mountain. Marathon is esentially a cross country trail. Those trails they added to the top of chair 4 are all flat. They can't even open what they have now and they say they are adding terrain? IMHO they should get what have up to snuff then maybe add some terrain. That new pod they want to open onto Arcadian Gate? How are you going to ski that when Arcadian Gate isn't even open in February? Neither is their signature trail, Olympian. Not even close. By the way, you might want to remind them that the name of the trail is ArcadiaN Gate. If they can't even get the name of the trail right in their literature what else are they getting right? Seriously, I'm not trying to be negative or a wise guy, but when they've cried "Wolf!" for thirty years you can't help but be skeptical.

If Blue hadn't spent a dime on the ski area since you first skied there 30 years ago, but there were empty condos and a water park at the bottom of the hill you'd be bitching too. I gave them credit for their grooming and terrain. Just trying to give people who might be thinking of going there a heads up on what to expect. I appreciate when people give an objective appraisal of a ski area. If I wanted to hear, "The trails are great! The lifts are fast! The conditions are always packed powder!" I'd just go to the ski area website.....Oh, I forgot. GP's website is all about the water park. And as I said in the post, we will be voting with our wallets and spending two days at Elk next year or maybe one at Sno instead of Greek Peak.

Well, I try to call 'em like I see 'em. The grooming was excellent and the 6" of fresh was on a closed trail and thanks to mother nature not GP's snowmaking efforts. Olympia isn't open and doesn't look like it even saw a snow gun this year. If you live close by it's a good option with their cheap season passes but $59.00 for a weekday is way too much for what they offer. I paid $50 on Liftopia. Elk is a MUCH better deal for $47 weekday and $56 weekend. Their lifts are old and slow even for fixed grips and no one was going to be sold on their capabilities of running a "resort" after looking at that sandwich. I should have taken a picture of it and sent it management. But then I never even got a reply to my email asking about the opening of the east side.

They opened it about 11:00 on Friday. One trail! Mars Hill. We poached Arethusa Way or whatever its called at the bottom of the liftline for 6" of fresh dry powder. The base was thin but skiable to the cutoff before the headwall. Conditions were really good but their base is really thin all over the mountain. Grooming was excellent and made me realize how bad Blues grooming really is. Conditions were excellent on everything they had open but it's FEBRUARY for crying out loud. They should be 100% open but they put all of their money into condos and the water park. If you have a crappy ski area with 50 year old slow lifts how are you going to get a good price for condos where people can get to VT pretty quickly? Lunch took 1.5 hours in the pub!? And when the sandwich finally came it was laughable. The chicken on my grilled chicken sandwich only covered half of the small hamburger bun it came on. Not even a real Keiser roll for $9.50. If I wasn't so hungry I would have sent it back. The guys I was with skied there for the first time last year on 8" of fresh powder. After Friday they said, "Next year, let's just do two days at Elk." While I like the terrain, Greek Peak never ceases to disappoint in one way or another.

I was there last year on a Friday and they had the east side open. They should reduce the price on weekdays if they're going to close the east side. I guess they're not getting too much business from those condos on weekdays.

Heading to Greek Peak Friday and Elk Saturday. I checked the GP website the last 2 days and they have all the trails and the lift on the east side listed as being closed. Does anyone know if they open that side on weekdays anymore? For $59.00 weekends and weekdays they should have the whole place open and groomed to perfection. They also have some trails on the main mountain listed as closed. They're in the snowbelt for crying out loud and have received much more snow than the pokes this year. I sent them an email with no reply....yet. Anyone have any info?

I don't mind the view at Blue or Sno. I do like the lights in the valley at Sno at night which is when I usually ski there. The case was the same with Blue when I could get there for midweek night skiing. The point is if they put out a good product people will make the extra effort to drive the extra half hour to Sno. I agree with GSS that they charge too much for what they offer and more importantly what the competition offers closer to population centers. Scranton/Wilkes Barre has one of the oldest average populations in the COUNTRY never mind the state. I haven't seen one of those senior citizen center buses in the lot yet. And those people take A LOT of bus trips! I love High Speed lifts on uncrowded days. But Sno skis like two areas. Flat top. Steep at the bottom. Most of the advanced skiers never leave the North Face and would maybe ride a HSQ once or twice a day. The jib honks stay in the park on the upper mountain. The two trails it would serve wouldn't see much more traffic because they are flat on the top half. And if they did it would be too much capacity for two trails. Until they get more top to bottom trails and a good consistant TTB blue cruiser it would be a waste of money that could be better spent on other things. The lights are better but still suck. Whistler is still mostly dark as are Upper Runaway and Fast Track. It wouldn't take much to make the lights much better. The North Face has pretty good lights but there are a few spots that need improvement. There's one light you can see going up the quad that shines right into a tree. (onto Boomer.?) That trail needs a light on the other side as well because the dropoff is in a shadow. What would it cost to cut some branches or just move the light? They wouldn't even to buy a new one.

Don't forget the quarry scarred hills and the trailer park. Good points on the HSQ by Brian, Schif, KCSKI, and Johnny Law. Sno needs alot of other things first. Like better LIGHTS. Just a few points on High Speed Lifts: -The chairs detach from the haul line at the loading and unloading stations. If they don't get re-attached at exacty the same speed the chairs eventually become unspaced and the lift can become unbalanced. Wind is a big factor in spacing the chairs when they reattach. That's why High Speed Lifts have more wind holds than fixed grip lifts. -It's the loading speed that is regulated not the line speed. IIRC, in PA you can load a double at 500ft/min, a triple at 450 ft./min, and a quad at 400 ft./min. The second a line forms, a fixed grip and a HSQ have the same uphill capacity. You can only load/unload the same amount of people. The difference is that you spend more time in line for a HSQ and more time on the chair on a fixed grip. -A HSQ is easier for beginners to load because of the slow loading speed and theoretically stops less often. Although I'm not sure that is true at Blue. -A loading conveyor helps beginners to load as well so theoretically the lift stops less often and they can run it at max speed but you still can't run it over the design speed. Ever notice how beginner lifts run slower. That's to help with the loading and to avoid stopping and starting the lift. Blue could use one on the Burma chair for all the newbies who make it down Burma Road. -You can get a lot of "mad steezy runs" on a HSQ but only if there isn't a line. If you're at Blue or Elk on a Saturday and there are the same amount people using their quads, you're going to get the same amount of runs in. The difference is at Blue you will be standing longer and at Elk you would be sitting longer. (Just a tip; there's less people at Elk and the terrain is better and more varied. But don't tell anyone!) -Snow doesn't need a HSQ to replace the Long Haul until they get some more trails on that side. -I'm always amazed that people will stand in line for a HSQ when there is a fixed gripped lift with no line that will get them to the top faster. I was at Snow Mountain, VT last weekend and that was the case. (Don't tell anyone that secret either. Let them stand in line while I'm getting to the top faster by sitting on a fixed grip lift while they're standing in line!) Just my two cents worth...

I was there last Saturday and the lifties all said in a pleasant manner, "Please put the bar down." everytime I got on the lift. That was different from when I was there New Years Eve when the lifty running the Iron Horse sort of pretended to hold the chair but never really did. The cute blond running the Long Haul was very pleasant last week. Even asking if the conditions were good and if we were having a good day. I don't know if it was a "training session" or just her personality but it makes a difference when the lifties are nice and actually do their job. I would write an email to management complimenting the new lifty attitude but they never respond anyway. I'm sure all their friends and people who only ski there anyway tell them everything they do is "great!" The lights still suck.....just in case anyone is listening.