trackbiker

Great report and pics! Elk is definitely worth the drive and the money when they are 100% open.

The deal doesn't come up on the link right away today. You have to click on "Featured Deals" and a thumbnail will come up with a bunch of other deals, one of them the JFBB $25.00 tickets.

ectobar, thanks for posting the link! Great deal! Meant to get there last season. Now I'll definitely get there this season.

Monday is $10.00 off for Mens Day. Tuesday is Business Person's Day; show a business card and get $10.00 off. (if you don't have one you can make one.) If the college ID works you get $10.00 off every midweek day. Check the local township recreation department. Most sell discount tickets to local ski areas but they usually don't go on sale until late December. Midweek tickets are the best deals of course. I skied 20 days last year including 8 in Vermont and 2 in Utah. I paid full price on 2 days, both in PA during holiday periods when it's hard to scoop discounts. The deals are there if you know where to look. I'm always suprised how many people don't take advantage of discounts that are readily available.

Don't know if you are going as couple, with family, or alone. Mid week or weekend or how cheap you are looking for. If you are going midweek it's hard to beat the ski-and-stay deals offered by VT areas. I used to be amazed that people would find a "great" rate at a fleabag motel and then pay full price for a lift ticket and think they got a deal. Most of the midweek ski-and-stay packages cost the same for a nice hotel room or condo (depending on how many are in your party)plus a lift ticket as you would pay per person just for a lift ticket. So essentially you get to stay in a nice place for free. If you are going on a weekend or holiday it is a different story. Haven't stayed her but it comes highly recommended by a friend I trust. If the ski and stay doesn't work for you, you may want to check out the Turn of the River Lodge

jordan, thanks for the link! I'll likely use both of these. Not too often you get a FREE ticket and the Kmart B1G1 is good for weekends. I used the Stratton ticket the two (or was it three) years that they did it.

Anyone heard anything on Tanglwood? The website is no longer up and they're not listed on the SkiPA website.

Sounds like a good plan since you're seeing family as well. I used to work for a German company and went to Munich several times per year. I'm not much for tourist traps but the Hofbrahaus is an authentic brewhouse and is much nicer in winter when there aren't so many tourist around. Great place for meeting people from all over the world. Lot's of nice Christmas markets on and off the Maximilianstrasse pedestrian area. Have fun.

Why limit yourself to Germany? You can get to Austria and Switzerland about as fast on the train from northern Germany. Someplaces in Austria and Switzerland maybe even faster. Check out the prices and the schedules. Have fun. Skiing in Europe is a different experience. The food and beer are about as important as the skiing.

Well it fits their system. It's already lined with fan guns on the upper mountain anyway. They would likely do very well with Sno. Their formula for running those day tripper resorts in the midwest would likely transfer well to Sno. Snowtime who runs Whitetail, Roundtop, and Ski Liberty might bid as well. Windham didn't fit their mix. Seems they weren't able to make the transition like Peaks did to destination resorts? They might also have some cash available from that Windham sale.

Good point. They do seem pretty open minded. I think they are looking for this kind of info. I do disagree with their Killington vertical. While most regulars don't do it, you can ski the whole vertical without stopping. I do it every time I ski there. If you pick some alternate trails from Great Eastern it's a fun run and you can ski it pretty fast. My friends always complain that I do it without stopping. That's the only way I want to do it. Haven't been there since the new owners took over and realigned some trails but I think you can still do it without poling. Hope to get back there this year.

The USGS maps are actually very accurate. If you are refering to the Google terrain maps you are correct. I don't know how their program works but they tend to "flatten" mountains. The bottom altitudes are usually pretty close but the top of the mountains are generally listed as lower than the actual altitude. You're right that the maps often miss little "bumps" but they always include the highest point on a mountain. I had to zoom out in a lot of cases to include the top and bottom of the ski area and the altitude lines. The USGS maps have been updated over the years as technology improves but the corrections have usually been pretty small. If you've ever seen one of those round brass markers at the top of a mountain, they're the guys that put it there as a reference point. You're right about the mountains not being verified. What's the point of that website if they're just going to copy what the areas trail map or website says?

OK, here's the real scoop on some local verticals. I generously estimated the top and bottom of lifts to give the areas the most optomistic verticals. Camelback claims 800' Actual is about 780'. Not to much of a stretch. I'd let them slide and round to 800'. Bear Creek claims 510'. Actual is about 480'. I'd let them slide with rounding to 500' but where did they get the 510'? I'm guessing it is leftover from when it was Doe Mountain. Shawnee claims 700' Actual is 660'. 700' is a bit of a stretch. Big Boulder claims 475'. Actual is about 400'. I'm sure this exaggeration goes back to at least the '60's. Spring Mountain claims 420'. Actual is 360'. Their Rock Top chair has a vertical of 343' according to skilifts.org. My thinking is the original owners added 100' to the original side. And the winner for exaggerating their vertical in PA is.....Jack Frost. The actual is likely less than 500' but they claim 600'. Did they just add 100'? It was even less when it originally opened. One from NY. Greek Peak claims 952' Actual is less than 800'. They have the potential for about 832' with the expansion that they've been planning for 30+ years but to ski it you would have to traverse a lot of flat terrain. I don't blame some mountains for stretching to the next 100' if they are past the X50' mark. But to add over 100 is really a stretch. Vertical is only a guide. Most people even on bigger mountains spend the day skiing a pod with much less vertical than the mountain offers. If the terrain is good and you enjoy it, who cares what the vertical is? I sometimes like lapping fun terrain on a smaller mountain.

Most of the mid size and smaller mountains stretch the vertical. They measure from the top of the flag pole on the summit to the bottom of the well at the base. Blue Mt., Sno, and Blue Knob are exceptions. Even before Blue Mt. and Sno gave them competition Blue Knob reported the actual vertical. IIRC Elk is about 970'. Not too much of an exaggeration. Bear Creek, Spring Mt., Jack Frost, and Alpine Mt. all exaggerate the vertical. I have the real verticals somewhere. I'll try to find them and post them. I'm out of town for the next few days so it may not be until the weekend. Google Maps is not all that accurate as far as vertical. They tend to understate vertical. The best source is the USGS survey maps.

" Email they sent me says top to bottom run off of chair 1. Trail map shows they are all greens " My mistake. I took you post to mean that all of the trails off of that lift were green. Actually that's the only green path you can take down from chair one. And like others have noted, it's still a fun run. Narrow and twisting at the top. Would be a blue anywhere in PA.

You might want to look at that map again

Thanks for the post g15. The website is a 100% improvement over the old one. Don't know if you control this or just plug in the map but aren't the glades actually between Upper Fast Track and Snake? The only other thing I would say is keep the conditions and lifts updated daily. I think there were times last year when it wasn't accurate as to what was open and closed. That may be someone else's responsibility. If so please pass it on. Oh yeah, and get rid of the moose!

I'm thinking that SnowTime,Inc will pick it up at a fire sale price. Peak Resorts picked up enough areas recently to keep them busy for a few years. If Sno has enough capital to hang on for 2 to 3 years they may make it. If SnowTime or Peaks aren't interested, and the price drops low enough, Camelback may buy them. If the Tea Partiers get in, it will tank with the rest of economy and close.

Good one poconoskibum247! Is your day job writing for "The Onion"? Your next column should be about the Cookie Making Machine Blue Mt. bought to groom their slopes with.

I don't know which is best or worst but after bitching about Sno's site until they upgraded it, I will nominate them for "Most Improved Wesite." The others all provide the information that I need pretty easily; Trail Map, Prices, Hours of Operation, and Conditions. I'm with sibhusky on this one. "I want information, easily found. End of story." I don't need a lot of razzle dazzle. Just give me the facts. I'm a strong proponent of the KISS theory of design...Keep It Simple Stupid.

Below are the discounts that were offered on the township recreation departments last year. Elk always has the smallest discount. Weekend tickets were only $6.00 less than the window. For other areas the discounts were higher and some weekday and night tickets offered a decent discount, especially if you are paying for 2 or more. Wow! Just looked at Blues site and weekend tickets are going to $57.00 this year! Bear Creek Weekday $29.00 Weekend $50.00 Night (4pm to 10pm) $22.00 Big Boulder/ Jack Frost Adult Midweek $34.00 Adult Weekend $40.00 Youth Midweek (ages 7-18) $30.00 Youth Weekend (ages 7-18) $32.00 Night Midweek (3pm to close) BB Only $24.00 Night Weekend (3pm to close) BB Only $26.00 Blue Mountain Weekday $35.00 Weekend/ Holiday $44.00 Night $27.00 Weekday Tubing $19.00 Weekend Tubing $26.00 Camelback Midweek Open to Close $39.00 Weekend/ Holiday Open to Close $49.00 Midweek Night $26.00 Weekend/ Holiday Night $29.00 Elk Mountain Midweek $41.00 Weekend/ Holiday $50.00 Shawnee Mountain Midweek Lift $32.00 Weekend Lift $38.00 Sno Mountain (Montage) Midweek $34.00 Weekend $42.00 Youth Midweek $24.00 Youth Weekend $28.00

KCSKI, Thanks for your post. Sno has made some serious improvements in the last few years. I think the late opening the first season was because they were installing the new snowmaking system IIRC. Those fan guns make great snow and the conditions at Sno last all day and into the night while other areas are skied off by 10:00 in the morning. I really enjoy night skiing there and think that an investment in better lighting would help to pick up their business midweek. Keep us informed in any improvements they plan on making this season.

I think Elk is definetely worth the extra drive. Camelback and Blue have high speed lifts but they get skied off by 10:00am on weekends. You can ski Elk all day on good conditions most weekends unless there's a thaw/freeze cycle. The trails are long and there is a lot of variety. You'll likely get to the top faster even on their fixed grip lifts because you won't be waiting in line as long as at CB or Blue. They have the best bump run in PA in Tunkhannock. They do have the best grooming in PA. I think their secret is they wait until they have just enough time to groom before they open. Usually they're still grooming if you get there for opening. Blue starts grooming when they close. Thus the frozen cordoroy. If you're into parks it's not the place for you. I agree that they should add some tree runs. I'm sure they're getting the pressure and this may happen in the future. In lieu of a season pass you may just want to buy a bunch vouchers from your local recreation department. Last year was $50.00 for weekends and weekdays $39.00 IIRC. If you're going to ski there less than 13 days that may be the way to go. Have fun and give us lots of reports and photos this season!

I thought there was talk of expanding to the east when Blue put in the Six-Pack. They supposedly saved the double chair they took down for future expansion to the east of Paradise. It always seemed to me the HSQ was designed so that there would eventually be a trail when you turned left as you got off. But that was all when Ray Tuthill was still alive. Seems like plans now are to expand attractions for the other three seasons of the year. I think it took them 3 yrs. to add one trail after they put in the Six-Pack. It may eventually happen but I think there are other priorities now. As far as Elk is concerned, I think they would put in a high speed four or six in front of the lodge before they add any new trails. Elk is a well run ski area and they seem to have a good formula of making small improvements every year as opposed to going into debt to make major ones that would take a long time to pay off or maybe bankrupt them in a bad year. Best skiing in PA. Don't let the "slow" lifts keep you away. They run their fixed grip lifts at the top speed allowed by law and the terrain is worth the wait. When you take into account the long lines for the high speed lifts at Camelback and Blue, you probably can get to the top faster at Elk on a weekend and the terrain is much better and doesn't get skied off as fast, if at all. I still don't understand why hoards of people will stand 10 or 15 or more minutes in line for a "fast" 4 minute lift when they could sit on a "slow" lift and be at the top in 8. I miss the old double at Blue.

You'd hit it regardless that the founder of that far right wing place thinks you're the antichrist? What Jerry Falwell Thinks about Jews I wouldn't support that institution if they had the best champagne powder in the world; and I'm not even Jewish. On second thought, maybe he's right and Doug is the antichrist!