trackbiker

I was just in Utah this past weekend. Alta 17" of nice dry powder and Snowbird had 10" more on top on Sunday. No crowds the tourists are all gone. They still have a TON of snow.

Better snowmaking, grooming, trails, lodge, lifts, more vertical, bumps, better service, prices?.... GP is great when they have snow, and if you like the woods, but otherwise, Elk beats it hands down if you're talking snow sports and not water parks.

If you're taking a beginner or little kids those are the weekends to go to one of the "off the map" places like Tanglwood, Ski Big Bear, Eagle Rock, or Alpine Mountain. No crowds and the conditions stay great into the night. Nothing too steep but beginners and kids aren't going to ski the black diamonds anyway. And they aren't going to get run over by out of control New Yorkers either. I skied Alpine Mountain for the first time Saturday night just to check it out. Nothing too steep except for two short headwalls in front of the lodge. Conditions were great. No ice anywhere. I think I was one of 4 people skiing after 6 o'clock. Lift lines??? They only had one of the two top to bottom lifts running when I got there at 4:30 and there more empty chairs than full ones. If you're taking the kids for the first time or a beginner, check out one of these places.

If the 'skills get dumped on the place to be is Plattekill. Only 1100' vert. but lots of steep trails and old school narrow winding trails. Ski anywhere policy when there is snow in the woods. They have mountain biking in the summer so there are plenty of woods lines on the mb trails. Old school type place. No high speed lifts. Great old lodge with a pool table up stairs. Never any crowds. Great place to go on a holiday weekend if there is natural snow. Bellayre has some steeps but they all seem the same and the vertical is just on the upper mountain. Still want to check out Windham sometime but on a weekday.

Thanks for the report and pics. I've been planning on doing a Windham/Plattekill trip but Plattekill needs some more snow. Never been to Windham but friends tell me I would like it better than Bellayre where I have been. Were the crazy lines worse because of the wind hold on the HSQ? In your one pic the lift looks empty. Have you ever been to Plattekill? Great place but not much snowmaking. Your reports are always so much better due to the nice pics. Thanks for making the effort to take the shots. My camera and cell phone batteries always seem to die in the cold. Those are some good German beers they had on the menu!

Those indoor water parks are really popular with families and there is no learning curve like in skiing. My kids are in college and they would still love a day of skiing and then a night in the water park. I hope that they're over the hump and we start seeing some improvements on the ski area. Just hope it doesn't get too crowded.

mbike-ski, I hope that your investment pays off and I'm sure eventually it will. I even thought of buying a condo there because they were so cheap. They were actually auctioning them off a few years ago when realestate was booming. The water park finally being open should add some demand but it is still empty during the week. Forgive me if I'm a little sceptical, but I've seen expansion plans on every trail map for 30 years and they've done nothing but install a used chairlift in place of a T-bar and add one new trail. The plans have changed over the years but that latest plan really adds nothing to the mountain. Marathon is esentially a cross country trail. Those trails they added to the top of chair 4 are all flat. They can't even open what they have now and they say they are adding terrain? IMHO they should get what have up to snuff then maybe add some terrain. That new pod they want to open onto Arcadian Gate? How are you going to ski that when Arcadian Gate isn't even open in February? Neither is their signature trail, Olympian. Not even close. By the way, you might want to remind them that the name of the trail is ArcadiaN Gate. If they can't even get the name of the trail right in their literature what else are they getting right? Seriously, I'm not trying to be negative or a wise guy, but when they've cried "Wolf!" for thirty years you can't help but be skeptical.

If Blue hadn't spent a dime on the ski area since you first skied there 30 years ago, but there were empty condos and a water park at the bottom of the hill you'd be bitching too. I gave them credit for their grooming and terrain. Just trying to give people who might be thinking of going there a heads up on what to expect. I appreciate when people give an objective appraisal of a ski area. If I wanted to hear, "The trails are great! The lifts are fast! The conditions are always packed powder!" I'd just go to the ski area website.....Oh, I forgot. GP's website is all about the water park. And as I said in the post, we will be voting with our wallets and spending two days at Elk next year or maybe one at Sno instead of Greek Peak.

Well, I try to call 'em like I see 'em. The grooming was excellent and the 6" of fresh was on a closed trail and thanks to mother nature not GP's snowmaking efforts. Olympia isn't open and doesn't look like it even saw a snow gun this year. If you live close by it's a good option with their cheap season passes but $59.00 for a weekday is way too much for what they offer. I paid $50 on Liftopia. Elk is a MUCH better deal for $47 weekday and $56 weekend. Their lifts are old and slow even for fixed grips and no one was going to be sold on their capabilities of running a "resort" after looking at that sandwich. I should have taken a picture of it and sent it management. But then I never even got a reply to my email asking about the opening of the east side.

They opened it about 11:00 on Friday. One trail! Mars Hill. We poached Arethusa Way or whatever its called at the bottom of the liftline for 6" of fresh dry powder. The base was thin but skiable to the cutoff before the headwall. Conditions were really good but their base is really thin all over the mountain. Grooming was excellent and made me realize how bad Blues grooming really is. Conditions were excellent on everything they had open but it's FEBRUARY for crying out loud. They should be 100% open but they put all of their money into condos and the water park. If you have a crappy ski area with 50 year old slow lifts how are you going to get a good price for condos where people can get to VT pretty quickly? Lunch took 1.5 hours in the pub!? And when the sandwich finally came it was laughable. The chicken on my grilled chicken sandwich only covered half of the small hamburger bun it came on. Not even a real Keiser roll for $9.50. If I wasn't so hungry I would have sent it back. The guys I was with skied there for the first time last year on 8" of fresh powder. After Friday they said, "Next year, let's just do two days at Elk." While I like the terrain, Greek Peak never ceases to disappoint in one way or another.

I was there last year on a Friday and they had the east side open. They should reduce the price on weekdays if they're going to close the east side. I guess they're not getting too much business from those condos on weekdays.

Heading to Greek Peak Friday and Elk Saturday. I checked the GP website the last 2 days and they have all the trails and the lift on the east side listed as being closed. Does anyone know if they open that side on weekdays anymore? For $59.00 weekends and weekdays they should have the whole place open and groomed to perfection. They also have some trails on the main mountain listed as closed. They're in the snowbelt for crying out loud and have received much more snow than the pokes this year. I sent them an email with no reply....yet. Anyone have any info?

I don't mind the view at Blue or Sno. I do like the lights in the valley at Sno at night which is when I usually ski there. The case was the same with Blue when I could get there for midweek night skiing. The point is if they put out a good product people will make the extra effort to drive the extra half hour to Sno. I agree with GSS that they charge too much for what they offer and more importantly what the competition offers closer to population centers. Scranton/Wilkes Barre has one of the oldest average populations in the COUNTRY never mind the state. I haven't seen one of those senior citizen center buses in the lot yet. And those people take A LOT of bus trips! I love High Speed lifts on uncrowded days. But Sno skis like two areas. Flat top. Steep at the bottom. Most of the advanced skiers never leave the North Face and would maybe ride a HSQ once or twice a day. The jib honks stay in the park on the upper mountain. The two trails it would serve wouldn't see much more traffic because they are flat on the top half. And if they did it would be too much capacity for two trails. Until they get more top to bottom trails and a good consistant TTB blue cruiser it would be a waste of money that could be better spent on other things. The lights are better but still suck. Whistler is still mostly dark as are Upper Runaway and Fast Track. It wouldn't take much to make the lights much better. The North Face has pretty good lights but there are a few spots that need improvement. There's one light you can see going up the quad that shines right into a tree. (onto Boomer.?) That trail needs a light on the other side as well because the dropoff is in a shadow. What would it cost to cut some branches or just move the light? They wouldn't even to buy a new one.

Don't forget the quarry scarred hills and the trailer park. Good points on the HSQ by Brian, Schif, KCSKI, and Johnny Law. Sno needs alot of other things first. Like better LIGHTS. Just a few points on High Speed Lifts: -The chairs detach from the haul line at the loading and unloading stations. If they don't get re-attached at exacty the same speed the chairs eventually become unspaced and the lift can become unbalanced. Wind is a big factor in spacing the chairs when they reattach. That's why High Speed Lifts have more wind holds than fixed grip lifts. -It's the loading speed that is regulated not the line speed. IIRC, in PA you can load a double at 500ft/min, a triple at 450 ft./min, and a quad at 400 ft./min. The second a line forms, a fixed grip and a HSQ have the same uphill capacity. You can only load/unload the same amount of people. The difference is that you spend more time in line for a HSQ and more time on the chair on a fixed grip. -A HSQ is easier for beginners to load because of the slow loading speed and theoretically stops less often. Although I'm not sure that is true at Blue. -A loading conveyor helps beginners to load as well so theoretically the lift stops less often and they can run it at max speed but you still can't run it over the design speed. Ever notice how beginner lifts run slower. That's to help with the loading and to avoid stopping and starting the lift. Blue could use one on the Burma chair for all the newbies who make it down Burma Road. -You can get a lot of "mad steezy runs" on a HSQ but only if there isn't a line. If you're at Blue or Elk on a Saturday and there are the same amount people using their quads, you're going to get the same amount of runs in. The difference is at Blue you will be standing longer and at Elk you would be sitting longer. (Just a tip; there's less people at Elk and the terrain is better and more varied. But don't tell anyone!) -Snow doesn't need a HSQ to replace the Long Haul until they get some more trails on that side. -I'm always amazed that people will stand in line for a HSQ when there is a fixed gripped lift with no line that will get them to the top faster. I was at Snow Mountain, VT last weekend and that was the case. (Don't tell anyone that secret either. Let them stand in line while I'm getting to the top faster by sitting on a fixed grip lift while they're standing in line!) Just my two cents worth...

I was there last Saturday and the lifties all said in a pleasant manner, "Please put the bar down." everytime I got on the lift. That was different from when I was there New Years Eve when the lifty running the Iron Horse sort of pretended to hold the chair but never really did. The cute blond running the Long Haul was very pleasant last week. Even asking if the conditions were good and if we were having a good day. I don't know if it was a "training session" or just her personality but it makes a difference when the lifties are nice and actually do their job. I would write an email to management complimenting the new lifty attitude but they never respond anyway. I'm sure all their friends and people who only ski there anyway tell them everything they do is "great!" The lights still suck.....just in case anyone is listening.

You guys are missing the whole point. Blue doesn't have such a great view either. Some quaried hills and a trailer park. I actually do like the lights in the valley at night. Sno can't change the view. What can they change to entice people to drive past CB, Blue, JF/BB? Their lights and the lights in the valley aren't going to get them up for night skiing.

The last thing Sno needs is a HSQ. They need alot of other things first that are a lot less expensive to fix like LIGHTS. Maybe when they get some more TTB trails. A HSQ on 500' vertical would be overkill to say the least. I do agree that their prices are high but the conditions are good all day, not just the first two hours like at Blue or Camelback. They should advertise what they do have to the population centers (and Scanton/Wilkes Barre ain't one of 'em). Lower prices may entice some people to drive the extra half hour. But then they don't even have their specials listed on their website, so maybe their stategy is not to get more people but to get more money from the people that are coming already. $5.00 lockers??? It's Sno Mtn. not Sneaux Mtn.! And the view is of office parks, interstates, and yes, a dump; not the Alps. And no wonder there is crap all over the lodge. Nobody pays for the lockers anyway. I ski there at certain times for certain reasons and they need to figure out why and market that. I'd ski there more if the lights were better.

They had a race there Saturday and the gates were set up on Smoke.

They have more than enough terrain for the crowds that they have now. A high speed lift would be a colossal waste of money. The mountain skis like two mountains, the Upper Mountain and the North Face. People skiing the North Face don't want to go to the top to ski a flat trail just to get back to where they wanted to be in the first place. They could us a top to bottom blue cruiser which could be done by cutting a blue trail to skiers right of Fast Track. The upper part could come later. This would better utilize the Long Haul lift which isn't even open weekdays. A high speed lift could come much later after they have cut some top to bottom trails on that side. Relocating the tubing would be nice and building a separate lodge for it would be even nicer. Most of the people crowding up the lodge are Mom, Dad, Grandpa, and Grandma, taking up space while junior is out tubing. They need to make what they have first class before they expand anything. Trees and LIGHTS would be top of my list. (Why did they ever cut those trees down next to the Iron Horse lift? Wasn't it windy enough at the top of the mountain? ) They could then market their, great snow conditions, lack of crowds, and vast beginner friendly terrain to the hoards at CB and Blue on weekends and holidays. Maybe even LOWER their prices to attract them. Or at least put their specials on their website where people could find out about them.

Glad to hear they're getting busier. There were a lot of people buying tickets when I left at 12:30. Never waited in a line to speak of but never saw so many full chairs on the Long Haul either. The parks were pretty empty as well. How were the lines later in the day? I'm sure there were crowds at CB and Blue. They really need to market to that crowd. It's only about half hour farther than either and the whole upper mountain is beginner friendly. Much better than traversing the "rush hour traffic" on the greens at Blue and CB. Maybe they'll be able to afford to improve the lights!

They had signs posted in the ticket windows yesterday that season passholders from other mountains can get Sunday tickets for $15.00. I saw the College Day on the calander but nothing about price on the website. It's nice to know once you're already there But if they want to attract more people may be they should put it on the website??? Hello Sno, nice new website, but you still don't get it. You're deals are still a secret.

Did a morning session at Sno today. Met a friend from N. Jersey in the lodge at 8:15, booted up and hit the slopes. The whole upper mountain was groomed cord. The lower mountain had some small death cookies but not as bad as the typical Blue grooming. Sun came out around 9:00 and had a very enjoyable morning. Skied every trail except for Smoke (there was a race on it today), the parks, and White Lightning. White Lightning looked good like they had blown snow on it last night and the bumps looked to have good lines but my buddy wasn't up for it today. Run of the day was Cannonball. Not so many death cookies as the rest of the lower mountain. Lower Runaway was getting a little scraped when we left but just a little. Great choice for MLK weekend. No lift lines to speak of. My friend who skis all of New England, and out west every year summed Sno up this way: - Sort of like skiing two mountains. Top is all flat green trails. Bottom is all black diamonds. No real blue top to bottom cruisers. - Great snowmaking and grooming for PA. - Top trails are all pretty much the same. Very wide. They need to plant some trees and let some sections grow in. - No need for a HSQ. The experts ski the Phoebe on the bottom and beginners ski the Iron Horse on the top. They don't even run the Long Haul mid week. - Nice place for an uncrowded MLK weekend day in PA. Camelback and Blue would be mobbed and skied off by 11:00. But not too much to keep an advanced skier interested for more than half a day after they've been there once. - No real "character" to the area. The trails are surounded by medium size deciduous trees. Your view is of industrial parks and the dump on the other side of the turnpike. They need to plant some pines on the upper mountain. -Glad they have place like this in N.E. PA to help the economy and to introduce kids in the Scranton Wilkes Barre area to skiing.

I didn't see anything about $15.00 on their website. Website has $25.00 weekend nights and $22.00 weekday nights for 18 and under and college students. Vs. $28 & $26. Not a big savings. You won't even break even with tolls on the PA Tpk. if you're coming from the south.

Nice report Melissa. Glad to see you finally got out. Fast Track and Runaway are always good when the Long Haul lift isn't running as most people won't skate over to those to trails from the top of the Iron Horse lift. Unless they've made some improvements since New Years Eve the lights are better but still need A LOT of work. Instead of being totally dark, Whistler was only 2/3 dark! Now you need to get up to Elk and tell us what you think. You live in Scranton for crying out loud! Elk is close and worth the trip.

snoskier summed it up pretty well. Mainline is the beginner terrain park so you may want to warm up on one of the other runs. All of the top of the mountain has about the same pitch, so they are all easy. The Long Haul lift likely won't be running during the day but you can ski top to bottom by taking the Phoebe lift and skiing to the Iron Horse lift in about the same amount of time. You'll have to skate over to the top of Upper Runaway and Fast Track but it's worth it for the fresh snow. Be careful not to carry too much speed into the bottom of the lower part of those trails as there are drop offs and they get steeper at the bottom without a runout. That catches a lot of novices by surprise. Cannonball should be doable if you can ski the bottom of those two runs and is likely easier. Check out Buckman's for discount tickets. New Britian township also sells discount tickets at the township building but I'm not sure if they have Sno tickets.