trackbiker

GSS, No trip report for 1-11-08?! I'm going into withdrawal! It was Camelback that was closed tonight, not Blue! Hopefully you had a date tonight with a gorgeous ski babe. For that we will give you a pass. Regardless, we will be expecting you to be there for first chair on Satuday, 1-12-08. With a report to follow!

Likely to save the conditions for when it gets cold again. Skiers/boarders on wet snow packs it down and makes ice when it gets cold. Believe it or not, the ra!n will drain through the snow if it isn't packed down. They can then groom it out. Not powder, but not ice either. I'd rather they close a trail for a day or two to save the conditions for the next week or two. Mad River Glen and Magic closed in VT today for this same reason. They do need to get those 193 new guns cranking when it gets cold again!

Great first report Melissa! It's really nice to have an objective review of the conditions. For this part, "Upper mountain was SLUSH. Bare patches and puddles", most mountains would have reported, "Upper mountain is WET PACKED POWDER. A few thin spots with some non-frozen snow." And for this part, "Snow on the Northface was soft but not slush and base looked fine."... Snow on the Northface is PACKED POWDER with a ONE GAZILLION INCH BASE." All-in-all, a great first report from Camelot (err, I mean Sno) Mountain! Not quite up to GSS's standards for reports from Blue; but only because you didn't tell us what you had to eat on the way home. But all-in-all a great report! Please keep posting reports! We need an objective review. Otherwise we could just go to the ski area Conditions Report. P.S. To beat out GSS as best PASkiandRide reporter, all you need to do is, if you buy shampoo on the way home; tell us what brand. (Before anyone gets their panties in a wad, I love Doug's reports. In fact I want to know which place in A-town has the wing special on Mon. nights)

Did they cut down more trees between Switch and Spike? Riding the Iron Horse on a cold, windy day would not be fun on that lift. It is really exposed. There is a line of poles there already which would make it easy to put up some more lighting for the park. I have to revise one of my Pros; The trash barrel is not under the Phoebe lift this year. I always thought that the barrel helped cut down on the litter under the lift. (Not that I ever used it, I do all my drinking apres ski. ) I'll add a Pro; the lifts seem to have been PM'd well over the summer. The sheeve trains are quiet and the Phoebe seemed to be running a little faster. Not sure because I didn't time it.

Was up Sunday night. Conditions were still great!

Thanks for the report, Rummy! Looking to get to ELK soon.

Thanks for the update. We all know they had their hands full with the water park project this past summer. But it's still good to hear what's going on with the ski area improvements. A few lights here and there to eliminate some dark spots should still make a noticable improvement on some trails until they update the whole lighting system.

Pros: Best snowmaking system in PA. (Why aren't they 100% open yet?) No crowds even on holiday weekends. Nice black diamonds separate from the rest of the mountain. Nice variety of terrain. The trash barrel under the Phoebe lift. Cons: No High Speed lift. High lift ticket prices. No deals or special days for seniors, college kids, Sun. night skiing or for ANYTHING. Smallest discount in the PRPS program with no night ticket offered. $3.00 lockers. Poor lodge location. Bad lighting. Tried to make the pros = cons, but I haven't been there yet this year and other than the beer prices, I don't think any of the cons have changed. Is the ski check free now or still $3.00?

While I don't agree with all of the trail ratings, the new map is a more accurate representation of the mountain. Just look at riderossi's Google Earth map and compare the old and the new trail maps. When I suggested a connection like the Rattler to Cannonball last spring, all of the Sno regulars were against it. After reading their responses, I agreed. Mostly for keeping the nubes off of the North Face. I guess we'll have to ski it this year to see if it is a good or bad thing. All of the old trail names were railroad related. The new trails are snake related. My guess is they will change all of the old trail names once they install a new HS lift and some new top-to-bottom trails.

poconoceancity, From the Quakertown exit on I476, Blue is only 15 - 20 minutes farther than BC as long as you're not traveling at rush hour. I know because I live near the Q-town exit and timed it. It's more miles to Blue but less slow back roads than BC. If you're a skier and not a "park hound", it's worth the extra time. Just follow the directions on Blues website. I've tried all kinds of ways and that's still the fastest. Congrats on the new baby, by the way!

You were at a mountain in VT surrounded by condos and houses Christmas week and it was crowded? Who would have thought? When are you going to VT next not expecting any crowds, Presidents or MLK weekend? sexkitten, I was there Dec. 6 & 7. Myself and 3 friends were the only ones riding the Jackson Gore Quad for the last 2 hrs! Packed powder with 3 inches of fresh on top! If you like Blue Cruisers, you'll love Okemo. And if you like being pampered, you'll love the Jackson Gore Inn. Have fun and give us a report.

I'm all for keeping the whole lower mountain black diamonds. I see that the new trail is a green circle and they downgraded Upper Fast Track to a green circle. No problem there as novices can get to the Iron Horse lift from those trails and stay on the upper mountain. But they down graded Lower Fast Track and Lower Runaway to double blue squares. Those trails get steeper as you near the bottom and have some turns. Not good for Nubes who are carrying some speed when they hit the headwalls down there. It seems like they are trying to appeal to a bigger market of skiers, but the true black diamond skiers will not like the nubes littering the trails and the nubes won't have such a great experience either after they crash down there. Might be a good time to send some emails to Sno as it seems the map is not "official" yet. (And yes, Melissa, that includes you! )

Sorry to hear about A-Jeff. Hopefully, with modern medicine, he'll be back on the slopes this season.

Ski4Food, Thanks for the input. Seems like you have a lot of inside information. I agree that the mountain has a lot of potential and is a great place to ski when the natural snow is good. Regardless of what the charter says, they need to do some creative accounting to upgrade the lifts, snowmaking, and lodge. It would make it a lot easier to sell the real estate if they had a first class resort. I hope that they do make improvements in the years to come, but in the mean time, I'll take my $56.00 somewhere else for better lifts, conditions, lodge, and have enough left over for lunch. They still need to get there priorities straight, or reduce the ticket price in the mean time. Or at least offer some discounts. I can drive just a little bit farther and have a much better experience for less money than staying in their village. Just my 2 cents worth.

Google Earth is really cool, but the verticals are not always that accurate due to how the program works. Topozone.com or terraserver.com would give you a more accurate vertical.

That's great news. I like the Northface, but it's nice to have the option to take a few long runs now and then.

I'll be in VT this weekend.

I'm talking about all of the poachers who will attemp to poach those resorts combined will cost alot more than $5K. But it will only cost Burton $5,000.00. They got many times that in marketing already, and they haven't even paid the $5K yet! It's a great marketing ploy! I'd love to meet the guy who came up with it! Check out the price of a ticket at those resorts. Deer Valley is $79.00. Just one boarder and one camera person are going to pay $148.00 for one run! Now multiply that times all the people who are going to try it at all 4 resorts. I'll guarantee you that each resort makes more than $5,000.00 each from this marketing campaign. And the fools paying for the tickets are giving Burton very, very cheap marketing. Why don't you ask if Burton will pay for your tickets, even if you don't win? I think we all know the answer to that one! Go ahead fools; Poach all you want. At all 4 resorts. Burton makes money. The resorts make money. You lose money. Unless of course you're the one person who wins. Remember, it's only one $5K, no matter how many people it takes to make the video. How much you wanna bet it will be a video with more than 2 people? And the net result? The resorts will only be more convinced to not allow boarders. But Burton got their free marketing. Who's head should the $ signs be on now?

IIRC Blue also pays someone to cut their halfpipe. Don't know all the details, but I have read that pipe cutting is a difficult task. Part art and part science. Snow conditions vary due to temps and humidity from top to bottom as it's being made, compaction occures towards the bottom, voids in the snow can occur due to wind, compaction, or melting. Maybe Planet or a leasing company is buying the Zaugg? They could then truck it to different areas that they serve? Much more efficient use of capital $ for how often it would be used. Where are the trails names on Sno's site? Didn't see them on there tonight, but maybe missed it.

No matter how you feel about it, that's a great way insure that those resorts won't allow boarders anytime soon, and will only serve to reinforce those resorts reasons for the ban. That's especially true about the way the riders were purposely brushing the people on the Deer Valley video. The $$$ signs on the guys head who was explaining in a nice way why they didn't allow boarders, should be on Jake Burton's head. Burton is losing market share big time, and this is all about getting Burton an image at a really good price. ($5,000.00? It will cost all the poachers combined alot more than that! And give Burton virtually free marketing at the poachers expense! ) Go ahead all you wannabe poachers. Pay for a full price ticket at one of those resorts for one run. The resorts and Jake Burton will be laughing all the way to the bank!

Thanks for the pics! Elk always gets their lighted trails open first. Hopefully, the weather event this weekend will be all snow for Elk and give them a jump start on the season.

ski, good points on the late opening. While the weather was bad for everyone last year, Sno didn't open until mid January. That had to put a serious damper on the cash flow. You are right about the Christmas revenues. While Pres. Day and MLK are the busiest weekends, Christmas is the equivalent of about 5 normal weekends in a 10 day period. Also, you did talk me into checking out Montage. I was there the only day that they ran Long Haul that season. When the employee was posting a while back he did mention something about new lights on a few trails but didn't give any details. While a whole new lighting system would be nice, a few more strategically place lights to eliminate dark spots would make things much better at a relatively low cost/benefit ratio. It was also mentioned that the lifts had the drives overhauled. You always mention Long Haul as being a problem. That lift only stopped once for a short time while I was on it last year. Funny thing was, the Phoebe was down for about a 1/2 hr. one time I was there. That is the lift that has taken a beating because it has been the workhorse for years while the Long Haul sat idle. It actually ran slower than Long Haul. I timed them and calculated the speeds. Sno is doing a hell of a lot. None of us know all the logistics, scheduling, nor money involved. Nor would any of us do the same things in the same order as far as improvements. Plus, It's really easy to spend someone else's money! Seems like the park has been a focus and the jibbers are happy. I'm a skier. I like to hit a jump in the park now and then when I know I'm not going to get in anyone's way, but as a skier, I have different priorities. Not "right or wrong"; just different. I also know "Rome wasn't built in a day" and they have a hell of a lot going on besides winter stuff with the water park and everything. It's great to see all of the impovements. I just hope the return is there in the long run. Just for the record, the Elk vs. Sno thing is a non issue. They are two different animals and will only compliment each other. That's why Elk's owner was at the meeting supporting the sale last year. Having two complimentary ski areas will only draw more skiers and riders overall to NE PA. Does anyone know if they built the Tubing lodge? That would improve things greatly in the lodge by getting all of the parents and grandparents who are hogging tables all day out of the lodge.

ski, When I first moved back to the area several years ago, I looked at a ski report and IIRC my first post on this forum was, everyone else was 100% open, what's up with Montage? You convinced me to try it and I skied there twice that year after driving by on the way to Elk and Greek Peak for years because the layout never really interested me. Based on those visits and your impressions, I saw the potential. The comments about needing snowmaking being a "given" was due to the fact that they were only 1/3 open when everyone else was 100% open because they didn't have the snowmaking capacity due to rusted out piping, broken snow guns, whatever. They obviously had the water. Regardless, it was obvious that any new owner had to upgrade the snowmaking capacity BEFORE they did anything else. That was the "given". And Sno did a great job. They installed the best snowguns and the conditions were terrific last season. About the 7 new trails: They revised their website, but it did originally say there would be 7 new trails for THIS season. Regardless of symantics, where do you think the reporter got that information? "Dude, they only cut a blue square down half the mountain. What should they get up to first class? The snowmaking? The pipe? The rails? The race course? The lodge? The summer park? The restaurant?"- ski How about the Lighting and the Lifts? Scranton and the surrounding area have one of the oldest average ages of anywhere in the country. It is a depressed area. Do you think that people from Philly and Jersey are going to drive the extra miles past Camelback and Blue with 2 HS Lifts each, and past "Big Boulder Park" to go to Sno? I don't have a problem with the Long Haul Lift other than getting it up to design speed and actually running it more often to take advantage of the advertised vertical. But how many people who are used to the HS Lifts at Blue and Camelback are going to come back to Sno because of a new deck on the lodge, slow lifts, and bad lighting? "But there is an old saying...."How do you end up with a $1million in the ski business? Start with $10million" It's great that they are trying to maximize an asset that only provides revenue for 3 months out of the year. They are building a great park. But how much money do the jibbers have? Are they paying $3.00 for a locker? Eating on the new deck? I look forward to skiing Sno a lot this season. The snowmaking is the best in PA. It still won't be crowded even on holiday weekends because they don't have HS Lifts. Blue and Camelback are skied off by 11:00am on weekends. Sno still has great conditions on Sunday nights. I'll enjoy it while it lasts, BUT they still have to make money to pay for all that stuff. I wish them success, and will still ski there a few times per year, but if it ever gets too crowded, I'll drive on by to Elk or Greek Peak, like I used to do.

If you look at a topographical map of that area, the terrain is very steep and would require some serious regrading, cut around the side of the mountain to get a blue trail to the bottom. The problem with the marketing director's statement is that when they have only ONE new, unlit trail this year, no one will believe them when they do have a high speed lift and six more trails next year. "Never promise more than you can deliver." People keep saying that they "listen to the customer". Maybe they listen to the jibbers, because that seems like where all the real improvements are going. (And we all know how much money they have to spend!) The Long Haul hardly ran at all last season. Why would you need 7 new trails over there when you didn't service the 2 you had last season? IMHO, they would be better off getting a High Speed lift and lighting on the trails they have before expanding. The new snowmaking was great, but it was also a given because there really was none there. Buts it's not the only thing required for a quality experience. They should get what they have up to first class before expanding. Hey, before you through out the "hater" icon; They've done a hell of a lot in a short period of time. But there is an old saying...."How do you end up with a $1million in the ski business? Start with $10million!

I usually like to ski Greek once or twice a year. But their lift tickets are now $56.00 for anyone 14 or over That's weekend and weekdays I know they have good season pass rates for the locals, but those rates are rediculous for what they offer. If anyone thinks Elk's lifts are slow, they haven't been to Greek Peak! That #2 Lift is one of the oldest operating lifts in the country! The lodge hasn't had an upgrade in 20 years, and the parking lot is a potholed mess. I like the mountain, but at those prices I'll go to Plattekill or Elk, thank you. Ski4Food, do they offer any local discounts?