trackbiker

While I read the ski magazine gear ratings with a grain of salt (They never say anything badabout anything. Can you say advertising $$$? ), and with all of the bigger mountains in NY and New England, there is a reason Elk consistently makes the top ten in the east. I guess it is like fine wine, good oysters, or good beer. You have to acquire a taste for them. If you're still drinking Boone's Farm in a box, don't like oysters, and you're drinking cheap light, or malt liquor beer in quart bottles; nothing I can say can make you understand why Elk is in the top ten in the east.

I would have been surprised to see 7 new trails this season. Even if they get them cut, we know from the Montage days that that wouldn't mean anything unless they get snowmaking on them as well. They don't mention anything about new lighting on the website. According to the Sno Improvements Poll, that is what most customer's would like to see, after a HS Lift of course. With the lack of crowds, and no new lift this year, I would think that new lighting would be the best way to improve the skiing/riding experience this season. I sent them an email with a link to the poll and a summary of the results. Never got a response.

Buckman's Ski Shops sell discount tickets to Spring Mt. Don't know the details but I think a night ticket was $18.00 last year. That's where I learned to ski and it is 15 min. from my house, so I'll have to go at least once this season.

Bellayre has $10.00 midweek tickets during their Winterfest from Jan. 28 to Feb. 1, 2008. Plattekill offered the same deal that week. My son and I went to both resorts because we cancelled a trip to VT that week due to the lack of snow in VT that week last year.

Sno has a similar Sunday night deal. Last year it was $20.00. This year it's $22.00. Sno is still the better deal because the conditions are still good Sun. night. Blue is skied-off by lunch time. Check with your local town, borough, or township. Many offer discount vouchers to all kinds of entertainment venues including most of the PA ski areas. Discounts are in the $6.00 to $12.00 range depending on day/night and midweek/weekend. They usually post the lift ticket prices in early Dec. Here's some examples for Blue Mt. last year: Night: $22.00 vs. $29.00 Midweek Day: $33.00 vs. $42.00 Weekend Day: $41.00 vs. $49.00 Bear Creek Night ticket was $18.00 vs $27.00(?). I'm hoping Sno signs onto this program this year.

That's great news about overhauling the lifts! Any news on upgrading the lighting? Those fan guns really put out the best quality man-made snow. If the lighting gets upgraded, I'll definetely be skiing there more nights this season.

My point exactly. Since they only run both HS lifts when I don't ski there anyway, I would have personally preferred that they add new trails before the new lift, or installed another HSQ AND some new trails instead of a 6-Pack. Your point that the trails get skied off so quickly only reinforces my point of there being too much up-hill capacity verses downhill capacity. For a season pass holder like yourself, it makes sense to get there at 7:00am and ski till 10:00am on a weekend. For someone paying for a full day pass, (and usually driving a lot farther) it doesn't. I'll still ski Blue on weeknights, but I'll drive to Sno or Elk (or to NY) and ski on good conditions all day on weekends. Funny thing is, I've skied Blue the most the last several seasons, but I've never skied there on a weekend day. And that goes to back when it was called Little Gap. I'm not dissing Blue. I think it's a really well run ski area, with great snowmaking, grooming, and customer service. I realize that the park hounds love the 6-Pack, but from a skiers point of view, I'll go to Camelback or Sno on a Friday, Saturday, or Sunday night this coming season.

The website still says that there will be new lifts and trails for 07/08. I think they're adding some magic carpets, but there won't be any new HS lifts or trails at Sno this year.

That means that Long Haul will have to be running in order to access Lower Fast Track/Runaway without taking two lifts. I don't know if the park riders will have enough patience to ride a 12 minute lift for a park there to be used all that much even if it is a top to bottom park. Maybe they should wait until they get a HSQ and keep the parks on the top half in the mean time?

IMHO, it would have made more sense to put in a second HSQ instead of the 6-Pack and use the money saved to add some trails. As it stands now there is too much uphill capacity and not enough downhill capacity. I love the high-speed lifts but everything gets skied off too quickly during busy times.

IIRC they ran the Long Haul almost to close Pres. Day Weekend. The other Sunday I was there they shut it down around 7:00pm but then had to reopen it when the Phoebe Snow broke down. Presidents weekend it was 11.5 minutes to the top. The other time it was 12 minutes. Believe it or not, the Long Haul was running faster than the Phoebe Snow both times. I timed it. The Long Haul is just a much longer lift so it seems slower. I agree with Grilled Steeze (and everyone else for that matter!) that they need to replace this lift with a HSQ and add some new trails. But in the mean time, this lift should be running at least open to close on weekends, and at least nights during the week. The North Face is nice, but it would be nice to be able to switch off and take a longer run once in a while.

There won't be a HSQ for this season, but getting the Long Haul running even a little faster would be a big improvement. They should also run it more. Did they run it on weeknights last season? Better lighting would be huge improvement. I'm hoping to hit up Sno for night skiing a lot more next season. But the lighting would have to be installed to make it worth the extra drive miles and time vs. Blue or Camelback. Blue just gets skied off to quickly for night skiing since they put in the 6-pack.

I had lunch at the Cactus Grill today, a.k.a. Piper Hill Lodge. I borrowed some pictures that were given to the owner by a customer who had taken them of her children in 1965. I had them scanned at a photo shop. No new HSQ at Sno doesn't seem so bad compared to rope tows! Here's a link to the site with the pics from 1965: NELSAP Piper Hill Thread

Wasn't a big share of Blue Mt. sold to the general manager last year? I thought I remember something about that at the time they announced they were putting in the 6-Pack. It doesn't appear that any of his children are involved in the management of the mountain as none of them live close by according to the obituary.

I heard that Blue Marsh is now a housing development but then I haven't been there so that could be a rumor. The T-bar from Blue Marsh was sold to an individual in New Hampshire who is building a private ski hill. Can't find the info on it right now but when I do I'll post it.

$5 million out of $13 million. Hmm.....over 38% of the MELF pie......$5 million is about the cost of a new High Speed Quad.....The "snowmaking" has already been installed.....could the MELF application been revised from "Ski Lift" to "Snowmaking Equipment"?.....the investor's in Sno Mountain LLC are from Philly.....Fast Eddy is from Philly..... Wonder if any of those investor's ever made any campaign contributions? All Philly lawyers make campaign contributions, but I wonder who those guys made them to? At least the money is finally going to something that we will actually benefit from!

Until I learned Ray's name a few years ago I always thought that Tut's Lane was a jab at Camelback. It's due to Ray's vision that we have such a great ski area so close by most of us. To take on such a risky project, starting a ski area from scratch at age 53 after a successful career, takes a lot of spunk. I guess that's why they call those guys who served in WWII "The Greatest Generation."

Here's a sight that has information and some pictures about Hahn Mountain: Hahn Mountain Website

That was my original thought for this thread. If everyone feels that an official PSAR representative should send them the letter or email, or better yet deliver it personally, that sounds great by me. After a HS Lift, seems that the lighting is the most important issue for the members here.

Whoever did the original lighting design didn't have a clue as to what they were doing. Those parking lot lights they have on the towers are fine for lighting a soccer field, but not a ski slope. Whistler is almost completely dark at night. The NF has the best lighting but even some of those trails have dark spots. Without going into a lot of detail, the lighting needs to provide some definition to the surface to avoid flat light. The best way to light a slope is aim the light across the slope and down the hill. This provides some shadow effect on the slope for definition and avoids the lights shining in the skiers eyes. Blue has the best lighting of any ski area I have skied at night. (No gloating GSS! ) The only problem is that their lighting is so targeted that if one light burns out that whole section of the slope is dark.

Thanks for everyone's feedback. So far the #1 Improvement is a New High Speed Lift, closely followed by Better Lighting. So far my sources (not Sno employees) tell me that there is no lift ordered for next year. With a minimum 9 month delivery time, I don't see a New High Speed Lift happening for next season. Don't shoot me. I'm just the messenger! A new HS Lift is my first choice. Any Sno insider's have any info? My guess is that they are so busy on the water park that the new lift has fallen down the list of priorities. To be honest, with the new snowmaking, if they just get some good lighting in for next season I'll be happy. That and get the Long Haul running at design speed. My son just got his driver's license, so I will be able to ski Sno more often. I'll take the trade-off of less crowds and better conditions for one more season over the High Speed Lift.

Here's a link to a thread on NELSAP.org with some pictures that I thought some people on this site be interested in. If you check it out, please be respectful and ask permission before you walk around the property. The Cactus Grill has great food and a nice selection of micro brews on tap. It is a small place, so weekdays are best. (closed Tuesdays). If you do stop for some food or beer, let them know where you heard about the place. Maybe we could add Lost PA Ski Areas as a Topic to the site? Piper Hill Thread on NELSAP.org Cactus Grill Website

They're little nooks where FGT and GSS can take the hoe's that they meet in the lounge..... Why do you guys want to pick-up garden tools in the lounge anyway? But seriously, all the items on the survey were generated from suggestions on a previous thread. Cubby Holes are the sectioned off shelves for people who don't want to pay $3.00 for a locker to store their stuff in so it doesn't end up all over and under the tables, cluttering up the lodge.

This Poll is an attempt to find out what is Most Important to Most People from the Survey Thread results.

Here's the latest summary to date in order of the number of mentions in ( ): 1. Better Lighting (5) 2. New High Speed Lift (5) 3. Cubby Holes in the Lodge (5) 4. Free Ski Check (3) 5. Keep the North Face Trails Isolated from the rest of the Mountain.(3) 6. More Rails in Park (2) 7. A Back Country Trail (2) 8. Top-to-Bottom Black Diamond Trail (2) 9. Park Passes (1) 10. Moguls on Easier Slopes for Learning Bumps (1) 11. High Speed Lift on North Face (1) 12. Club Room for Race League (1) 13. Blow Snow on NF Nightly (1) 14. Parking Lot Tram to the Lodge (1) 15. More ski/board racks (1) 16. Bigger Jumps with Booters and Steeper Landings (1) 17. Bigger Half Pipe (1) 18. $1.00 lockers 19. Ski & Snowboard Racks on the Outside of the Shuttle (1) 20. Better Grooming (1) 21. More Step-Down/Step-Ups in the park (1)