trackbiker

Good point. I agree. Keep the Nubs Off of the North Face! The nubs are bad enough at the bottom of Fast Track and Runaway! That's the way I like to ski Cannonball as well. You can get some serious compression at the bottom of those drop offs though! I almost wiped-out backwards one time from it!

That's why I asked. Cannonball is one of my favorite trails at Sno. But why not the link? To keep the nubs off it? To keep it in the NF pod?

ski mentioned early on that a blue trail is needed from top-to-bottom. The drop-offs on Lower Fast Track and Lower Runaway result in a lot of yardsales for intermediate skiers. It's even tough for experts when you hit those drop-offs at the high speed you pick up from bombing the top 3/4 of the mountain. It's nice that the NF is sort of isolated, and well marked that it is expert terrain. That keeps most of the gapers off of trails that they shouldn't be on. When I was skiing Sno this year I thought it would be nice if they had a connection from Whistler and Upper Runaway to Cannonball. I know there's some trails through the trees, but most gapers won't take them. I think that both ski and GSS are right. Sno needs a top-to-bottom blue trail to appeal to the masses. The terrain won't support a top-to-bottom black diamond. Maybe the solution is to make a new top-to-bottom blue trail and a connection from Upper Runaway and Whistler to Cannonball. Any thoughts?

I like the idea of cubby holes as well. Some people will never use a locker whatever the price. If they don't have a place to stow their stuff it ends up on and under the tables. On crowded weekends that means less table space. At $3.00, even less people will use the lockers, or it factors into their decision of where to ski. "Junk all over the place and $3.00 lockers? Plus $3.00 ski check? Think I'll go to Elk, Camelback, or Blue." Sell ONE more lift ticket and you just made MORE than 16 locker or ski check sales! (Like ski said, some things should be free!) Another improvement: Ski and Board Racks that will actually hold skis and boards on the outside of the parking lot shuttles. Reason: Safer (no skis, poles, boards in the bus) Convenience: Don't have to hold skis, poles, boards, along with boots, ski clothes, food, drinks, etc. on the bus. I know it doesn't matter to the regulars who boot up at the car and head straight to the NF. I did the same 2 out 3 times I was there this season, but it does to matter to people with little kids, those who want to get dressed in the lodge, and the gapers. And that's where the incremental money is. They already have the season pass money.

So your suggestion is....No Lockers?

Here's another improvement sort of along the lines of the $3.00 ski check: $1.00 lockers Who needs unlimited access? Most people open them once or twice. Elk and Blue both have 50 cent lockers. Even if I locked it 3 times that's still half the price of Sno's. They put up signs for people not to put bags over top of the lockers. (which were ignored by the way.) If they block that space off people will just put stuff on and under the tables cluttering up the whole lodge. Stratton has a free bag check to avoid this, $1.00 lockers, and $2.00 ski check. Here's a summary to date in order of the number of mentions in ( ): 1. Better Lighting (5) 2. New High Speed Lift (4) 3. Free Ski Check (3) 3. Park Passes (1) 5. Moguls on Easier Slopes for Learning Bumps (1) 6. High Speed Lift on North Face (1) 7. Club Room for Race League (1) 8. Blow Snow on NF Nightly (1) 9. Parking Lot Tram to the Lodge (1) 10. More ski/board racks (1) 11. More Rails in Park (1) 12. Bigger Jumps with Booters and Steeper Landings (1) 13. A Back Country Trail (1) 14. Top-to-Bottom Black Diamond Trail (1) 15. Bigger Half Pipe (1) 16. $1.00 lockers

That's why I modified it from a "private lounge" to a "Club Room." A lot of areas have club rooms, but I don't think they allow keggers in them!

OK, I admit after reading Post#1, that it was too wordy. I probably had a few too many beers the night I wrote that! I could have just written- Post one improvement you would like to see and why. How's that for being brief and to the point? (At least I'm a happy drunk! ) I'm adding one more thing to the Wish List: Free Ski Check. Convenience. Less stolen skis and boards causing a bad rep. Here's a summary to date in no particular order with the number of mentions in ( ): 1. Better Lighting (3) 2. Blow Snow on NF Nightly (1) 3. Park Passes (1) 4. High Speed Lift (3) 5. Moguls on Easier Slopes for Learning Bumps (1) 6. High Speed Lift on North Face (1) 7. Club Room for Race League (1) 8. Free Ski Check (1) 9. Parking Lot Tram to the Lodge (1) Anything else or what is most important to you from the list?

I was at Stratton on Sunday 4-8. Conditions were great! Skied from 8:30am to 3:00pm. Did you see the Pond Skimming? Got some fresh tracks in the am. It snowed all day but they really only got 4"-6" of fresh powder. They got more farther north. All-in-all, a great last day of the season. (Or maybe not. I'm trying to figure a way to get to Killington next weekend! )

Thanks for the info! I can understand the others, but why wouldn't they run at least either Burma or Main Street? When I was there Wednesday, they were running Main Street then switched to running Burma. One thing I never understand is, at night they often close either Burma or Main St. But the closed lift keeps running. I can see that they save on labor by running only one lift, but wouldn't it make sense to shut the lift down to save on electricity as well?

ski, you're probably right. As far as I can tell, they've come thru on everything they said they were going to do. The point I'm trying to make is; where to put the new trails and lift, how to layout the new trails to enhance the area for everyone, and why are they replacing a lift that is barely run? Maybe start with the Phoebe? Isn't that the most utilized lift? I don't know the answers. You guys ski there more than me. Good point. They would have to come around the side of the mountain at the bottom to avoid having headwalls. Most ski trails flatten out at the bottom. At Sno they get steeper. If they don't solve that problem I suggest naming the new trail Yardsale, or keeping with the railroad theme, Trainwreck! Coming around the side of the mountain might make it the longest trail in PA.

ski, I see your point about an easier Top-To-Bottom Trail, but after my last two visits to Sno, I see Schifdawg's and riderossi's point as well. (There's a lot of time to think on those 12min. lift rides! ) The layout of the mountain makes it hard to add an easier TTB Trail and still keep the nubs off the North Face and Lower Runaway & Fast Track. Plus any new trail(s) would be the farthest from the lodge and the easier slopes. The North Face at Mt. Snow is a good example of isolated expert terrain, but doesn't fit the layout of Sno. I looked at the topo map and while the top is relatively flat, the mountain gets steeper as you get near the bottom. An easier trail(s) could still be cut into the mountain on skiers right. It would likely take a lot of dynomite but of course it can be done. The bigger problem than an easier trail, from my observations at other areas, is that HS Lifts attract nubs like flies to sh!t!. If they put in a HS Lift in place of/or parallel to the Long Haul, the nubs would be all over it. And Lower Runaway & Fast Track would be the human slolom at least on weekends. Belleayre is a good example. But like you said, that lift serves varied terrain and the trails get flatter at the bottom, as opposed to Sno where they get steeper. Even I have to remember those drop-offs when I come flying down the easier top parts of Runaway and Fast Track. Maybe the answer is to add 2 HS Lifts? One to replace the Long Haul and another before the drop-offs but still lower on the mountian than Iron Horse? Just trying to think "outside the box". Any ideas? Just a footnote: They didn't run the Long Haul on weekdays, and the last time I was there on a Sunday it only started when the Phoebe broke down. Do you really think that they are going to replace a lift that they hardly ever ran with a new HS Lift? Or would you wait until the lift you had got up to capacity? They haven't ordered a new lift yet and delivery times for next season are getting tight. My guess is that you get an addition to the lodge and new SnowTubing Lodge next year. No new trails and no new lifts. I hope I'm wrong, but that is my best guess.

xNick11, I didn't mean to steal your post about the lights from the other thread. I didn't see that post until after I posted about the lights. Otherwise, I would have posted something else. Good point about the park passes. Keeps the newbie's (who shouldn't be there anyway!) out of the big park and provides an opportunity to teach about smartstyle. Makes the park better for everyone. Ok, It's a day later so I'll add my second Improvement. Season Pass Holder: No Number of Visits: 3 Next Season Visits: 6 Improvement: New High Speed Lift Reason/Benefit: Sno says on their website that they will have new lifts for next year. BUT THEY HAVEN'T ORDERED ONE YET and the time is getting close for them to have it engineered, manufactured, delivered, and installed in time for next season! These things are not "off the shelf" items. They are designed and manufactured for each particular installation/mountain. If Sno wants to be a premier resort, they have to have a High Speed Lift. Just bite the bullet and order it! liftguy mentioned a new drive for the Long Haul. This leads me to believe that they are thinking about delaying the new lift. Getting the existing lifts up to design speed would be enough for me, but I'm not your typical customer. The new snow making is great, but to get people to drive the extra miles to Sno from Camelback or Blue you need a HS Lift. And to get the people heading to Elk (which has better terrain and faster fixed grip lifts) to go to Sno you need to give them a reason. I mentioned my experiences at Sno this year with much better conditions to other diehard skiers and their response was either, "Yeah, but Elk has really good conditions too." or "Yeah, but the lifts are REALLY SLOW." They know they have to do it in the next year or so, so just do it. The volume didn't justify running the Long Haul on weekdays. "Build it and they will come."

Season Pass Holder: No Number of Vists: 3 Next Season Visits: 6 #1 Improvement: Better Lighting for Night Skiing. Reason: I skied Sno this past Sunday night because I thought the conditions would be good considering the low skier volumes and that it wouldn't be skied off. I would have gone to Camelback if Daylight Savings hadn't changed and if the sun wasn't setting at 7:00pm because the lighting for night skiing is really bad. The North Face is better, but Whistler is essentially dark except for one spot in the middle. The bad lighting would effect my decision to ski at Sno at night. I would choose Blue, Big Boulder, or Camelback to ski at night. Better Lighting would make me choose Sno more often to ski at night. While Elk has limited slopes for night skiing, I'd choose it over Sno for lighting. Those "parking lot" lights just don't cut it. Blue has the best lighting for night skiing.

The idea for this thread is provide a forum for and a summary of improvements that Sno's best customer's would most like to see for next season. From this list we can then generate a poll where you can prioritize the improvements in the order you feel would most benefit you and Sno. A preliminary list will be summarized for your comments prior to the actual survey. liftguy has generously offered to present the list to management. He (or I if he doesn't want to) will email the list to Sno management with their response being posted here. Hopefully this will provide them with a tool to evaluate their projects and prioritize them according to what their best customers want. While Sno has made a lot of improvements in the short time they had this season (not the least of which is the improved snow making ), I'm sure we could all make a long list of things we would like to see. In order to give everyone an opportunity to contribute and to get the most benefit for you next season, I suggest the following guidelines: 1. At the beginning of your post state if you are a Season Pass Holder: Yes/NO 2. List the Number of Times you Skied/Rode Sno this year. 3. Remembering the bad start to the season and based on your experience this year, list the number of times you expect to ski/ride Sno Next Season. 4. List the #1 Improvement you would like to see for next season. Why you would like to see this improvement. How it will benefit you and Sno Mountain. Feel free to add to previously listed comments. 5. List ONE other NOT previously listed Improvement you would like see for next season. Why you would like to see this improvement, and how it would benefit you and Sno. I'm thinking limit you posts of new improvements to 1/day in order to give others a chance to respond? 6. Please keep your posts positive. Feel free to bitch about your experiences but also offer a SOLUTION! Otherwise you're just bitching. 7. Please be realistic. Sno is a business that has to show a profit to survive. Posts suggesting the new lift is a Tram or that they offer free lift tickets will not be considered. If other suggestions are debatable, we'll debate them. 8. Please try to stay On Topic. While we all like to have fun, if the thread gets hijacked too much, we all lose. If one of the suggestions generates a new topic, please start a new thread. Have fun! Please feel free to suggest any ideas to improve the thread.

Liftguy, I had mention a while back about starting a thread with a wish list of improvements for Sno. I was going to wait until the end of the season but since your offer, maybe now is the time. Since everyone could make long duplicate lists or make rediculous suggestions (like installing a tram or free tickets) I would suggest that forum members list what they feel would be the most important improvement for 07/08 and make one more suggestion that hasn't been previously listed. We could then make a poll from the list of suggestions or have members prioritize the list according their preferences. I could then summarize the list. This way you have one document to present to management. I think this would be more effective than having a long list of random suggestions, and give them a better idea of what their customers want or feel is important. Any other Sno skiers have any suggestions on the above? Maybe a requirement would be that you had to ski Sno at least once this year. (So you better get there Doug! )

The state inspects and licenses ski lifts the same way they do amusement rides.

Welcome to the forum liftguy. The new lift location would depend on the new trail locations and if the Long Haul is being taken out. The Long Haul was running faster yesterday than it was last Sunday when you had to start it after the Phoebe went down. What would it take to get the existing lifts up to the original design speed?

Great shots! Glad you had a nice day! "...best skiing conditions I've ever experienced.." says a lot about the job that Elk's groomer's do! I skied Blue on Fri. night and Sno on Sun. night. Conditions were really good, but if I was the owner of Sno or Blue, I'd be offering Elk's grooming manager a big salary plus a signing bonus to lure him away!

Inside word has it that the new lift will be a Doppelmayr CTEC High Speed Quad. (Could be a 6-Pack, but most likely a Quad) But you didn't hear it from me! In either case, 5min. to the top beats 11.5 minutes to the top!

They have a plastic laminated ticket with the date and time on it with a plastic cable wrap type tie like the one they use at Bear Creek. i.e. mine said, "3/4/07 12:30pm - 10:00pm" The lady at the ticket window was real nice and told me that they had chosen the wrist band type because they wanted to use the same system for the ski area and the water park. (Makes sense to me. It's nice when someone explains their thinking.) She said that they are working on a solution.

I skied Sno this past Sunday, 3/4 from 12:30 to 8:30. Parked 4th car in from the North Face ticket trailer. I was glad to see that they got rid of those wrist band lift tickets. Conditions were great and zero lift lines! There was plenty of corduroy on the sides and even patches in the middle of the upper sections of Runaway and Fast Track. Conditions were packed powder with some loose granular mixed in on the bottom of the steeper slopes. Some of the steeper sections got a little skied-off very late in the day, but everything was edgable. No ice! It got a little windy at the top after the sun set, but the North Face is very protected down in the ravine and there was no wind at all down there. The Long Haul Triple is a long ride (11.5min.) but the lift only stopped once all day and that wasn't until 7:35pm. The Poebe Snow Quad stopped once too, on my last ride of the night. The base doesn't look to be exceptionally deep, but they should have no problem staying open until at least April 1st. I imagine that the snow on the North Face last a long time shaded as it is down in the ravine.

From the website: Sn

ski, thanks for the info. I forgot about the water park. I guess they plan on opening it this summer? Any info on the lift? I would think that it is in the specification stages if not already ordered. (sorry for the double post. don't know why that it happened but the site wouldn't let me edit it.)

Keeping the North Face open in April (ala Superstar at Killington) would likely be a marketing bonaza for them. I'm sure that every TV News station within 150 miles would have a van there covering it live. With opening about a month late, I'm sure that many season pass holder's would not be crazy about the extra $10.00. Maybe $20 or $25 for non pass holders would be a better idea. What's all the construction that they need to close the upper slopes for? The addition to the lodge? Any word on the new trails and lift? Will it be a Quad or 6-Pack? I'm planning on being at Sno on Sunday. I'm expecting spring conditions but they should still be good. Doesn't look like there will be a freeze to ice things up after the non-frozen precipitation. Keeping the North Face open in April (ala Superstar at Killington) would likely be a marketing bonaza for them. I'm sure that every TV News station within 150 miles would have a van there covering it live. With opening about a month late, I'm sure that many season pass holder's would not be crazy about the extra $10.00. Maybe $20 or $25 for non pass holders would be a better idea. What's all the construction that they need to close the upper slopes for? The addition to the lodge? Any word on the new trails and lift? Will it be a Quad or 6-Pack? I'm planning on being at Sno on Sunday. I'm expecting spring conditions but they should still be good. Doesn't look like there will be a freeze to ice things up after the non-frozen precipitation.