trackbiker

ski, you're probably right. As far as I can tell, they've come thru on everything they said they were going to do. The point I'm trying to make is; where to put the new trails and lift, how to layout the new trails to enhance the area for everyone, and why are they replacing a lift that is barely run? Maybe start with the Phoebe? Isn't that the most utilized lift? I don't know the answers. You guys ski there more than me. Good point. They would have to come around the side of the mountain at the bottom to avoid having headwalls. Most ski trails flatten out at the bottom. At Sno they get steeper. If they don't solve that problem I suggest naming the new trail Yardsale, or keeping with the railroad theme, Trainwreck! Coming around the side of the mountain might make it the longest trail in PA.

ski, I see your point about an easier Top-To-Bottom Trail, but after my last two visits to Sno, I see Schifdawg's and riderossi's point as well. (There's a lot of time to think on those 12min. lift rides! ) The layout of the mountain makes it hard to add an easier TTB Trail and still keep the nubs off the North Face and Lower Runaway & Fast Track. Plus any new trail(s) would be the farthest from the lodge and the easier slopes. The North Face at Mt. Snow is a good example of isolated expert terrain, but doesn't fit the layout of Sno. I looked at the topo map and while the top is relatively flat, the mountain gets steeper as you get near the bottom. An easier trail(s) could still be cut into the mountain on skiers right. It would likely take a lot of dynomite but of course it can be done. The bigger problem than an easier trail, from my observations at other areas, is that HS Lifts attract nubs like flies to sh!t!. If they put in a HS Lift in place of/or parallel to the Long Haul, the nubs would be all over it. And Lower Runaway & Fast Track would be the human slolom at least on weekends. Belleayre is a good example. But like you said, that lift serves varied terrain and the trails get flatter at the bottom, as opposed to Sno where they get steeper. Even I have to remember those drop-offs when I come flying down the easier top parts of Runaway and Fast Track. Maybe the answer is to add 2 HS Lifts? One to replace the Long Haul and another before the drop-offs but still lower on the mountian than Iron Horse? Just trying to think "outside the box". Any ideas? Just a footnote: They didn't run the Long Haul on weekdays, and the last time I was there on a Sunday it only started when the Phoebe broke down. Do you really think that they are going to replace a lift that they hardly ever ran with a new HS Lift? Or would you wait until the lift you had got up to capacity? They haven't ordered a new lift yet and delivery times for next season are getting tight. My guess is that you get an addition to the lodge and new SnowTubing Lodge next year. No new trails and no new lifts. I hope I'm wrong, but that is my best guess.

xNick11, I didn't mean to steal your post about the lights from the other thread. I didn't see that post until after I posted about the lights. Otherwise, I would have posted something else. Good point about the park passes. Keeps the newbie's (who shouldn't be there anyway!) out of the big park and provides an opportunity to teach about smartstyle. Makes the park better for everyone. Ok, It's a day later so I'll add my second Improvement. Season Pass Holder: No Number of Visits: 3 Next Season Visits: 6 Improvement: New High Speed Lift Reason/Benefit: Sno says on their website that they will have new lifts for next year. BUT THEY HAVEN'T ORDERED ONE YET and the time is getting close for them to have it engineered, manufactured, delivered, and installed in time for next season! These things are not "off the shelf" items. They are designed and manufactured for each particular installation/mountain. If Sno wants to be a premier resort, they have to have a High Speed Lift. Just bite the bullet and order it! liftguy mentioned a new drive for the Long Haul. This leads me to believe that they are thinking about delaying the new lift. Getting the existing lifts up to design speed would be enough for me, but I'm not your typical customer. The new snow making is great, but to get people to drive the extra miles to Sno from Camelback or Blue you need a HS Lift. And to get the people heading to Elk (which has better terrain and faster fixed grip lifts) to go to Sno you need to give them a reason. I mentioned my experiences at Sno this year with much better conditions to other diehard skiers and their response was either, "Yeah, but Elk has really good conditions too." or "Yeah, but the lifts are REALLY SLOW." They know they have to do it in the next year or so, so just do it. The volume didn't justify running the Long Haul on weekdays. "Build it and they will come."

Season Pass Holder: No Number of Vists: 3 Next Season Visits: 6 #1 Improvement: Better Lighting for Night Skiing. Reason: I skied Sno this past Sunday night because I thought the conditions would be good considering the low skier volumes and that it wouldn't be skied off. I would have gone to Camelback if Daylight Savings hadn't changed and if the sun wasn't setting at 7:00pm because the lighting for night skiing is really bad. The North Face is better, but Whistler is essentially dark except for one spot in the middle. The bad lighting would effect my decision to ski at Sno at night. I would choose Blue, Big Boulder, or Camelback to ski at night. Better Lighting would make me choose Sno more often to ski at night. While Elk has limited slopes for night skiing, I'd choose it over Sno for lighting. Those "parking lot" lights just don't cut it. Blue has the best lighting for night skiing.

The idea for this thread is provide a forum for and a summary of improvements that Sno's best customer's would most like to see for next season. From this list we can then generate a poll where you can prioritize the improvements in the order you feel would most benefit you and Sno. A preliminary list will be summarized for your comments prior to the actual survey. liftguy has generously offered to present the list to management. He (or I if he doesn't want to) will email the list to Sno management with their response being posted here. Hopefully this will provide them with a tool to evaluate their projects and prioritize them according to what their best customers want. While Sno has made a lot of improvements in the short time they had this season (not the least of which is the improved snow making ), I'm sure we could all make a long list of things we would like to see. In order to give everyone an opportunity to contribute and to get the most benefit for you next season, I suggest the following guidelines: 1. At the beginning of your post state if you are a Season Pass Holder: Yes/NO 2. List the Number of Times you Skied/Rode Sno this year. 3. Remembering the bad start to the season and based on your experience this year, list the number of times you expect to ski/ride Sno Next Season. 4. List the #1 Improvement you would like to see for next season. Why you would like to see this improvement. How it will benefit you and Sno Mountain. Feel free to add to previously listed comments. 5. List ONE other NOT previously listed Improvement you would like see for next season. Why you would like to see this improvement, and how it would benefit you and Sno. I'm thinking limit you posts of new improvements to 1/day in order to give others a chance to respond? 6. Please keep your posts positive. Feel free to bitch about your experiences but also offer a SOLUTION! Otherwise you're just bitching. 7. Please be realistic. Sno is a business that has to show a profit to survive. Posts suggesting the new lift is a Tram or that they offer free lift tickets will not be considered. If other suggestions are debatable, we'll debate them. 8. Please try to stay On Topic. While we all like to have fun, if the thread gets hijacked too much, we all lose. If one of the suggestions generates a new topic, please start a new thread. Have fun! Please feel free to suggest any ideas to improve the thread.

Liftguy, I had mention a while back about starting a thread with a wish list of improvements for Sno. I was going to wait until the end of the season but since your offer, maybe now is the time. Since everyone could make long duplicate lists or make rediculous suggestions (like installing a tram or free tickets) I would suggest that forum members list what they feel would be the most important improvement for 07/08 and make one more suggestion that hasn't been previously listed. We could then make a poll from the list of suggestions or have members prioritize the list according their preferences. I could then summarize the list. This way you have one document to present to management. I think this would be more effective than having a long list of random suggestions, and give them a better idea of what their customers want or feel is important. Any other Sno skiers have any suggestions on the above? Maybe a requirement would be that you had to ski Sno at least once this year. (So you better get there Doug! )

The state inspects and licenses ski lifts the same way they do amusement rides.

Welcome to the forum liftguy. The new lift location would depend on the new trail locations and if the Long Haul is being taken out. The Long Haul was running faster yesterday than it was last Sunday when you had to start it after the Phoebe went down. What would it take to get the existing lifts up to the original design speed?

Great shots! Glad you had a nice day! "...best skiing conditions I've ever experienced.." says a lot about the job that Elk's groomer's do! I skied Blue on Fri. night and Sno on Sun. night. Conditions were really good, but if I was the owner of Sno or Blue, I'd be offering Elk's grooming manager a big salary plus a signing bonus to lure him away!

Inside word has it that the new lift will be a Doppelmayr CTEC High Speed Quad. (Could be a 6-Pack, but most likely a Quad) But you didn't hear it from me! In either case, 5min. to the top beats 11.5 minutes to the top!

They have a plastic laminated ticket with the date and time on it with a plastic cable wrap type tie like the one they use at Bear Creek. i.e. mine said, "3/4/07 12:30pm - 10:00pm" The lady at the ticket window was real nice and told me that they had chosen the wrist band type because they wanted to use the same system for the ski area and the water park. (Makes sense to me. It's nice when someone explains their thinking.) She said that they are working on a solution.

I skied Sno this past Sunday, 3/4 from 12:30 to 8:30. Parked 4th car in from the North Face ticket trailer. I was glad to see that they got rid of those wrist band lift tickets. Conditions were great and zero lift lines! There was plenty of corduroy on the sides and even patches in the middle of the upper sections of Runaway and Fast Track. Conditions were packed powder with some loose granular mixed in on the bottom of the steeper slopes. Some of the steeper sections got a little skied-off very late in the day, but everything was edgable. No ice! It got a little windy at the top after the sun set, but the North Face is very protected down in the ravine and there was no wind at all down there. The Long Haul Triple is a long ride (11.5min.) but the lift only stopped once all day and that wasn't until 7:35pm. The Poebe Snow Quad stopped once too, on my last ride of the night. The base doesn't look to be exceptionally deep, but they should have no problem staying open until at least April 1st. I imagine that the snow on the North Face last a long time shaded as it is down in the ravine.

From the website: Sn

ski, thanks for the info. I forgot about the water park. I guess they plan on opening it this summer? Any info on the lift? I would think that it is in the specification stages if not already ordered. (sorry for the double post. don't know why that it happened but the site wouldn't let me edit it.)

Keeping the North Face open in April (ala Superstar at Killington) would likely be a marketing bonaza for them. I'm sure that every TV News station within 150 miles would have a van there covering it live. With opening about a month late, I'm sure that many season pass holder's would not be crazy about the extra $10.00. Maybe $20 or $25 for non pass holders would be a better idea. What's all the construction that they need to close the upper slopes for? The addition to the lodge? Any word on the new trails and lift? Will it be a Quad or 6-Pack? I'm planning on being at Sno on Sunday. I'm expecting spring conditions but they should still be good. Doesn't look like there will be a freeze to ice things up after the non-frozen precipitation. Keeping the North Face open in April (ala Superstar at Killington) would likely be a marketing bonaza for them. I'm sure that every TV News station within 150 miles would have a van there covering it live. With opening about a month late, I'm sure that many season pass holder's would not be crazy about the extra $10.00. Maybe $20 or $25 for non pass holders would be a better idea. What's all the construction that they need to close the upper slopes for? The addition to the lodge? Any word on the new trails and lift? Will it be a Quad or 6-Pack? I'm planning on being at Sno on Sunday. I'm expecting spring conditions but they should still be good. Doesn't look like there will be a freeze to ice things up after the non-frozen precipitation.

They're green this year. I used some from two years ago last year. They were the same color and date. I think for the last 2 yrs. they used to start on 3/8, this year they start 3/12.

And we all know that PennDot is not too good at plowing roads! If they could shut down I78, I80, & I81 last week after 4" of snow, I guess they could shut down Blue Mountain! (or at least access to it!) Here's another idea; how about a handle tow for the lower park? There are a lot people who just want to do the lower the park. Instead of hiking the park, they ride the 6-Pack to the top and ride down Tut's to Lazy Mile (or the big park which they not ready for) just to get back to the lower park. It would take poeple off the 6-Pack and Lazy who just want to do the park anyway.

stever2003, Glad to hear you got to experience the best ski area in PA. Best terrain and best managed. I was at Elk on Saturday. The conditions were great! It was the most crowded I've seen it in years but I never saw one empty chair on any lift and the longest I waited was 10 minutes. (What do you call a High Speed Six-Pack at Blue Mt.?.....a snowboarder's double! ) Elk runs their fixed-grip lifts faster than any other ski area I know. While it was crowded, other than Tunkhannock (the bump run) the black diamonds were empty! Try Elk midweek and you have fresh cord all day. You can get discount tickets for most PA ski areas at local township or borough halls. Elk has the smallest discount at $8.00 off for weekdays and weekends. Do a google search to find a place to buy them near you or pm me and I'll tell you a few places to get them on the way. As for slow lifts; if there is a line, a high-speed lift and a fixed-grip lift have THE SAME UPHILL CAPACITY. They both load and unload one chair every 6 seconds.

ski, thanks for the reports. I was wondering how things were this weekend at Sno. I didn't make it up Fri. night as I was sick on Thurs. and didn't get the wash, packing, etc. done to head out right after my son got out of school on Fri. We headed straight to Elk on Sat. morning. I was surprised to see that the Rt. 80 Exit on the PA.TPK was still closed! You couldn't even get off to get on Rt. 940! I was wondering if people heading to JF/BB maybe stayed on the TPK and went to Sno instead? Your comments about the shuttle are right on. Some one pulling into that lot for the first time has no clue where the lodge is! They should have a big sign on the light poles saying, "LODGE" with an arrow pointing towards the stairs. And they should have Shuttle Stops! Like Bus Stops with the canopies. I think we had the same grumpy bus driver you had when we were there. Not a great first impression. Plus, the ski racks are useless on the shuttles. They must have been designed for straight skis from the '70's! Hey, I understand you regulars are in heaven right now compared to past years. But if Sno is going to be succesful, you have to compare them to the current standards, not the $1million/yr. money pit that they were! Short lift lines are great on a holiday weekend if you are a customer, but they don't pay for HSQ's! Before some one throws up the "hater" sign; It's not "bitching" if you also offer a realistic solution, it's constructive criticism. Sno has done a great job in the time they had, but I'm sure that they wouldn't mind some feedback to make things better. I think a such a thread in March would be a good idea. But each item must have a solution or an impact. i.e. $3.00 ski check = stolen ski's/boards, a bad rep. and "I'm going to Blue Mt. where it's FREE. Ski, If you don't want to dis the bad driver, get the good one's name and write a positive email mentioning how much you appreciate his service.

Anybody notice Post #8?

ski, thanks for the info on the crowds. Sounds like it will be almost as uncrowded as last year. Is the Long Haul Triple really that bad? I'm sure that they had to have it inspected for this year. I know from my one-ever ride on it last year that it is slow. But I would think that it would still be faster than taking two lifts. If there aren't many (if any) beginner's riding it, I would think that it would stop less than most of the other lifts.

riderossi, thanks for the info. Sno will likely still be less crowded than the other areas in PA this weekend. The storm will likely bring out the once-a-year people as well as the usual Pres. Wkend crowd.

Thanks for the report. What were the crowds like over the weekend? Do you think that it will be crowded Presidents weekend coming up? How's the Long Haul Triple been running? The reason I ask is that while the N.F is nice, the runs are relatively short. It would be nice to do some top to bottom runs. My son and I will likely be up on Friday night. Then we are heading to Greek Peak and Elk for Sat., Sun. We may hit Sno again on Monday.

The DigitalGlobal photo was taken March 24, 2003 according to Terraserver.com

Google Maps uses images from the USGS (U.S. Geological Survey) that are typically taken in the spring after natural snowfall is gone but before the foilage comes out on the trees. If you look at images of ski areas in New England there is usually only some snow left on snowmaking trails in the images.