Halfpipe - Should it stay or go?

[BC-Mark]

Given the huge amount of snow required to build a quality pipe and the difficult snowmaking conditions we have seen in recent years, should we continue to keep the terrain as a halfpipe or fill it in and create more park space?

[mollyskeez]

i think the half pipe should stay but like you said with the conditions are not that good. it is hardly used as it is so i say keep it if you think you can get a good pipe going but if not fill it in.

[k2wwwkid]

no way

the walls are all ways flat to strait up even after they cut it

[supertrooper12]

the pipe is one of my favorite features, but you guys never have it so id say throw some jumps on that bitch.

[paolo]

i say the halfpipe should go but why waste money to fill it in just put features down there also.

[method9455]

Pipe is great, it is the most intense of all features, the most technically demanding, and the most fun. Dropping into a perfectly shaped soft super pipe at full speed and just grabbing that big method off the first wall is the best feeling I have ever had snowboarding. (what you didn't think my name is method for nothing right?). But I voted that you guys should fill it in.

 

My opinion - a bad pipe is worthless and dangerous. Either make it right, or don't do it.

 

What does it take to make it right?

 

1) Anything less than a 11 foot pipe is a waste. You don't start getting the "feel" for it until you are at that size, a 13 or 15 is better but at that point just go all the way to 19. 19 is a "superpipe" but in reality it is a lot easier than a 13 foot pipe because the transition is bigger. I haven't hit a 22 foot pipe yet, but I imagine it is even better. Mini pipes are entirely different. a small wall means you can't pump the tranisition, and they aren't really going to be vert, and the landing is tiny, but they are great for hand plants, slashes, small spins, stalls, and a little air. But that is the kind of thing a cat could shape kind of on the spot without planning, take some snow, push it around, it doesn't need dirt underneith it for some fun mini pipe stuff.

 

2) Ok so now we agree to do it "right" you need at least an 11 or a 13 foot pipe. So you need all that snow, you have to of course make the snow, but to get the pipe right you have to push it up and down the hill "kneading" it like dough until all the air is out of if. And the water drains, it takes a week to knead it right. Then you have to shape it, then you have to cut it. It is extremely expensive and difficult to do. All that time, money, snow, diesel, cat driver time could be better thrown at the park.

 

3) Lets say that you do eventually get up this perfect 11 foot pipe, now you have to cut it so that it stays right. Great you bring in a good cutter and it is perfect. That nasty january thaw hits every year, hitting Bear harder than any other PA mountain, and your pipe half melts. What do you do? You can't blow snow on an opened pipe without ruining it or you have to start all over again kneading and pushing and cutting. You can't just "patch" a wall it just falls out again. Or you let it melt a bit and have people dodging dirt spots where the dirt has stuck through.

 

At the end of the day all that time, money, snow, and cat time is better put into a better park. I would be suprised if even with a concerted effort you could get a pipe done right solely because of your weather. Pipes are the most fickle of all park features, the most difficult to maintain, and the most snow intensive.

 

Because of that most of PA doesn't really have access to a good pipe. I guess Camelback has the best one and even at that it blows. Blue's is ok on occasion. JFBB doesn't even try. Roundtop had the super pipe for a while but it is gone now. Shawnee's is a joke. Sno has one but I haven't tried it but apparently it is ok. The only good one in our region WAS at Mountain Creek, and this will be their second year in a row without one. They had a beautiful superpipe, but they had hte Grand Prix coming to make it worth it, and one of the best cutters in the world coming to do it for that event. Even then, it was only open from late january to early march each year. And their weather is better than yours.

 

Since there is no good pipe, there aren't many good pipe riders. Unless you travel, where do you practice? I learned at Tremblant, Mount Snow, and being a Mountain Creek local I got a dozen good days in theirs each year. Even at Mountain Creek which HAD a good pipe, there would only be a handful of guys on it each day. And then you turn your head and see dozens and dozens crowding the 8 features in the beginner park. We would hike all day and see a 15 guys who could get air, five of them could grab during it, and maybe two of them could spin. And I couldn't get air on my park board, only with my stiffer free ride board, I bet a lot of guys don't have the gear to do it and don't even know it. And then a lot of the jibbers in the park are skateboarders who transplanted, to be a good pipe rider it is a lot more like racing than jibbing. You are going faster than anything but a big jump, you need fine edge control, technique to pump the transitions, good control in the air, land well, hold a solid edge across at a fast pace, and do it again for 7 or 8 hits in a pipe. Most guys on noodly jib boards can't do that. You would see them get one good hit and then wash out their edge and fall in the middle of the pipe either because they couldn't handle the speed or their board was too soft to handle the speed.

 

 

If you put in a line of short flat boxes it would get 5 times the number of users per day for 5% of the maintenance. If you took the snow and cat time the pipe needed you could build solid sized table tops. It would spread out crowds on other features, allow you to be more creative. Build a bordercross course with rollers and banked turns, with a mini pipe along the way and a quarter pipe at the bottom. more people will have fun with that than a pipe. There a lot of things you can do with the space and snow that will lead to more people being happy. If there is a pipe people will complain if it is not perfect. If it is perfect they will complain that is it full of noobs or not big enough, if there is not a pipe, people aren't going to complain too much. Where can they go if they are complaining? There is not one good pipe I can find south of Vermont. But add some more features and people will be happier.

[Rab8]

turn it into a decent hikeable area?

[twist0pher]

my personal opinion is that it could be used more effectively with jibs there considering BC cant hold a good pipe. not there fault only weather and the sun positioning melting one wall all day. i say take that huge pointless wall down so the park can flow better if the pipe is filled in.

[burton71]

I wouldn't fill it in, but I would still use it for other features until the weather is good enough cut a decent pipe. You could make some interesting features with the shape of the land there.

[EAZY-Emuntz]

i say make it a huge rail garden (because they already have the jumps in tubing) and put a carpet lift on the middle where the one side of the halfpipe is so you can hit the rail garden or tubing jumpline with ease all day

[petter369]

I wouldn't fill it in, but I would still use it for other features until the weather is good enough cut a decent pipe. You could make some interesting features with the shape of the land there.

I agree. I don't no everything about building a perfect pipe but i would leave the pipe in and make a good quarterpipe out of one of the walls, put some rails and jumps in it and take down that dumb wall ride which I don't think I Have ever seen anybody hit to improve the flow into the pipe. If we ever get a lot of snow in the pipe, you could still make a nice pipe

[bmatyeah]

Due to geographic circumstances its just really hard to do at bear. i like the idea of a border cross trail thing last year i had a lot of fun with my friends on the one that was set up on black bear. I want to learn pipe real bad it looks like fun but in pa i don't expect to.

[Papasteeze]

Mark, I want to see pipes in our region, but given your resort is weather challenged comparitively, I would say don't bother unless you know that you are going to have an epic cold year and have the money to blow enough to do it right.

 

Method is 100% spot on with his assessments.

 

Since SNO is still apparently, pursuing a super pipe and Camelback does seem to be committed to building a USASA pipe (13') I say don't bother, build something else unique, like a really nice quarter pipe, to utilize the equipment you have.

[DHarrisburg]

I posted my thoughts about pipes in NEPA back in a Camelback thread.

[Phil]

I wouldn't fill it in, but I would still use it for other features until the weather is good enough cut a decent pipe. You could make some interesting features with the shape of the land there.

 

+1

 

I love riding the pipe. It has been a tough couple of years, but I have hopes that things will turn around sometime. What is the drawback of having it there? With some creativity, there could be some great features in there until the resources are available to build the pipe.

 

Contrary to popular belief, there were at least a couple of days last year when the BC pipe was nice.

 

Mark - does BC own their pipe cutter? If so, is it a problem to keep it around? If you are not losing anything by having the cutter, and the terrain can be used for something else until the weather comes to fill it up with enough snow to make a pipe, why not just keep it the way it is?

 

At that point, we can change the poll to read: Who wants to see BC-Mark ride the Pipe?

[snowboarddude]

it would be really nice if you put the stair set there

[JibHonk]

shit i meant to vote yes but i misunderstood the question so it should really be 18-4 cuz i think bear should fill it in just because we dont have the snow to maintain it

[funkmaztafox]

+1

 

I love riding the pipe. It has been a tough couple of years, but I have hopes that things will turn around sometime

 

ahahahahahahahahahahaha

 

[nick]

I think if you guys could maintain it well it would be a very big asset to the mountain, most people like a good pipe and there is a lack of them in the area so if it was good ide say keep it, but if the moneys not there, put in a tow rope and turn it into a jib park.....OOOOORRRRR put snowflex there!!!!!

[Papasteeze]

I posted my thoughts about pipes in NEPA back in a Camelback thread.

 

Copy and paste them here please. I couldn't find your comments.

[DHarrisburg]

Copy and paste them here please. I couldn't find your comments.

 

The pipe seems to be a huge money pit for CB and honestly the funds that are wasted on pipes that a handful of people ride would be better allocated for new rails and cat driver training. I love riding pipe but I'd much rather go to a mountain that has excellent rails and jumps with no pipe than a mountain with a half-assed pipe, poorly designed and constructed rails, and 20 foot jumps with mediocre lips and landings. I'm not suggesting a complete removal of tranny, you could take the pipe cutter that CB already owns and still build quarterpipes with it.

 

Link to the thread

Edited January 13, 2008 by DHarrisburg

[petter369]

I think if you guys could maintain it well it would be a very big asset to the mountain, most people like a good pipe and there is a lack of them in the area so if it was good ide say keep it, but if the moneys not there, put in a tow rope and turn it into a jib park.....OOOOORRRRR put snowflex there!!!!!

only problem with putting snowflex down is that you cant groom on top of it or else it is ruined

[method9455]

Bear has said they have tried to get snowflex before and couldn't actually get a real quote out of the company. Good product, no US support for it. That is too bad, I could see a snowflex jib park going over big at Bear all year round. Obviously they have thought about it but it is not going to happen. That being said, it might work for jumps and jibs but it would never ever work for pipe. You have to hold a serious edge in pipe riding beyond what snowflex allows you to do.

[snowboarddude]

it is really 19 for getting rid of the pipe and 5 for keeping it

 

i hope beat pick the majority

 

 

p.s. my vote may change if somhow bear builds a great pipe and can mantain it for the rest of the year

[k2rider2690]

i think that there are many other options other than filling it in with dirt. i think that park crew could make some very interesting features by keeping the walls the way they are. you could build a mini pipe, i mean i cant even imagine what they could do, it would be really interesting. and i mean hey if we get a good year make it into the pipe. i dont think it needs to be as drastic as filling it in with dirt.