lurker Posted January 6, 2005 Report Posted January 6, 2005 So its 10:15 this Wednesday night, the lifts are closed, last run of the night. Its been snowing for 4 hours, and there's 2 inches of fresh powder on the ground. There are only 2 boarders in the whole park besides me, and they are well out of the way. Earlier in the day, the 1st half of the halfpipe had closed signs in front of it for some odd reason, weird because it was pretty nice considering the fresh snow sorta filled in the gaps that it usually had. Later I saw the park crew first raking the last part of the pipe without any closed signs along the side. Then I saw them removing the closed signs and raking the first half. At that point many people were in the pipe, and I dropped in and it was just fine. The park crew eventually put up two closed signs at the very front of the pipe where usually the net goes. As far as I could tell the pipe was still open, because when the net is there, they just don't want people riding straight into the pipe. Now it was the situation I described above, and I was at the last 1/8th of the pipe, I dropped in at unnatural 360d out the one side hopped back in a natural 360d out the other side. Each was very smooth, I wasn't out of control and it was just in the very end section. When I looked back up the pipe I saw a medic on a snowmobile going pretty fast toward me. I paused for a couple seconds, he was only a medic, and the pipe seemed open with fresh snow at 10:15 at night. What would he care? Then I noticed he was coming straight at me and, of course as all of you would do, started to run as fast as I could toward the parking lot. He caught me, which was inevitable with him being on a snow mobile. He told me I was in a "closed area", and if I knew what happened if I was in a closed area. He took my season pass and told me that I could get it back from the rangers tomorrow after watching a video and getting it punched. I argued with him for a while, mentioning the facts above. I seriously couldn't believe it though. He told me it was for my own saftey because there was rocks in the pipe. There were no freakin' rocks. So I argued politely with him for about 10 minutes. He said it was clearly marked and that the fence had been dragged in the woods by someone. I told him that wasn't my fault that the fence had been dragged into the woods, and the pipe wasn't clearly marked closed at all. By then the 2 boarders came down and the one told him that the conditions page said the pipe was open, and that he should check that first. The the medic told him to stay out of his business, then a whole bunch of boarders nearby starter making fun of the medic and mocking him. Finally the medic threw back my season pass and told me to tell my friends that they were acting like idiots. I told him I had no idea who they were and happily skied away. The fact is, no matter if you are 1 of the 3 people left, the pipe seems open, its 10:15 at night, and there is fresh snow on the ground, you are still at risk of that sorta crap. If I wouldn't of argued that long, and those 2 boarders hadn't come by, I probably would have a nice pass punch and a video to look forward to. I hate Camelback. (sorry for the long rant, I was just sorta pissed off)
insomniac Posted January 6, 2005 Report Posted January 6, 2005 I would've just ignored him and kept skiing back to my car. I don't think I ever want to go to Camelback. The medic sounded like a little kid though. 'Your friends are... IDIOTS. -runs away and sobs in the ski patrol hut-'
ThinkSnow Posted January 6, 2005 Report Posted January 6, 2005 I am generally not one to stick up for cb employees, but it was 10:15, at which time everything is supposed to be closed. That is what the ski patrol dood should have said, aside from that, he was just being a dick. It should have been as simple as "hey, we're closed... go home". Anywho, yeah CB employees tend to be the Ski Nazis, thus the reason I haven't been there this year.
pyro_boarder Posted January 6, 2005 Report Posted January 6, 2005 Some times it is realy hard to tell when the pipe is open most of the time they have the fence at the top and if they just put closed signs in front of the fence it's going to be hard to notice. Alos you are right, it is deffinatly not you fault that someone else moved the closed signs. The Ski patrol should be more consered with putting the signs back up than catching some one that is unknowingly in a closed area. He probaly just saw an easy target and went on a power trip.
joeskier Posted January 6, 2005 Report Posted January 6, 2005 it was 10:15pm? you should have been off the snow on your way to your car by then. CB closses at 10pm. i know when i'm working and its time to closes you want to get out of there and not stick around for a bunch of kids that are screwing around. you can't blame them for trying to get you out of there but you can blame them for the way they handled that situation so stupidly.
soldier32 Posted January 6, 2005 Report Posted January 6, 2005 'Your friends are... IDIOTS. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> haha sounds a lot like napolean dynamite but yea man there was no reason at all why he should have tried to take your pass away. and i dont see why he had to be such a dick, there was no way of knowing it was closed. haha he deserved being mocked like that
Glenn Posted January 6, 2005 Report Posted January 6, 2005 Yeah, the fact that it was 10:15 would have been enough to clip your ticket technically, but I think most resonable people would just say leave. I always end up riding through closed stuff to get back to my car at night, because I park right next to the stevenson. So I just flip my pass inside out or take it off and hide it, then head over. If I ever get stopped I'm just gonna run. It sucks though because I'm pretty identifyable, with my helmet, beard, and I always wear a hoodie. If they made a concious effort to id me as I was running off they could definitely pick me up the next time a came.
ski911 Posted January 6, 2005 Report Posted January 6, 2005 Here is the deal. If there is a closed sign at the top of a trail or feature, that means it is closed, end of arguement. a net and 100 closed signs doesn't mean it is more closed it just means that most idiots cant read. The patrols at CB work very hard to try and prevent accidents and injuries. It is extremely frustrating to go through the amount of labor involved with closing a trail and then watching your efforts be ignored. It makes us a little cranky. It does not matter what any of the web sites or conditions pages say. The patrol will close any trail or area at any given time for many reasons. Consider yourself fortunate that you dont live out west where if you are caught on a closed trail you may be arrested for tresspassing, put in jail, and fined. When a trail is closed it is also "swept", wich means the patrol checks it so noone is left behind. After that, it might not be patrolled again that day. If you ignore the signs and get hurt, your care may be severely delayed.. The reasons a trail or feature may be closed usually are not because it is really good. Hazardous conditions, thin cover, rocks, ice, etc are the most prevelant. However, it may also be closed to allow it to "set up" for the next day. In the case of the pipe, if it is too soft, it is easily ruined. So in closing, stay off of closed terrain, pay attention to signs, don't try to outrun me, I will catch you.
Glenn Posted January 6, 2005 Report Posted January 6, 2005 Here is the deal. If there is a closed sign at the top of a trail or feature, that means it is closed, end of arguement. a net and 100 closed signs doesn't mean it is more closed it just means that most idiots cant read. The patrols at CB work very hard to try and prevent accidents and injuries. It is extremely frustrating to go through the amount of labor involved with closing a trail and then watching your efforts be ignored. It makes us a little cranky. It does not matter what any of the web sites or conditions pages say. The patrol will close any trail or area at any given time for many reasons. Consider yourself fortunate that you dont live out west where if you are caught on a closed trail you may be arrested for tresspassing, put in jail, and fined. When a trail is closed it is also "swept", wich means the patrol checks it so noone is left behind. After that, it might not be patrolled again that day. If you ignore the signs and get hurt, your care may be severely delayed.. The reasons a trail or feature may be closed usually are not because it is really good. Hazardous conditions, thin cover, rocks, ice, etc are the most prevelant. However, it may also be closed to allow it to "set up" for the next day. In the case of the pipe, if it is too soft, it is easily ruined. So in closing, stay off of closed terrain, pay attention to signs, don't try to outrun me, I will catch you. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The pipe ALWAYS has stuff at the top, even when it is 100 % fully open there is stuff blocking the top of the pipe. I'm not sure if you've never patroled that area or what, but there is ALWAYS at least a net. So of coarse there could be confusion.
Margaritaville Skier Posted January 6, 2005 Report Posted January 6, 2005 So in closing, stay off of closed terrain, pay attention to signs, don't try to outrun me, I will catch you. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Besides, they can't outrun Motorola. I didn't know Ski911. :
Ski Posted January 6, 2005 Report Posted January 6, 2005 But then they gang up on you and out of fear you back down? Way to show them! I don't know, man, but I'd have hung onto that kid's season pass and pulled out a night stick and cracked some skulls. G*dda*mn loiterers in Colorado go to prison---we need some laws like that! Still there at 10:30pm and you get you b*lls cut off!
Margaritaville Skier Posted January 6, 2005 Report Posted January 6, 2005 The pipe ALWAYS has stuff at the top, even when it is 100 % fully open there is stuff blocking the top of the pipe. I'm not sure if you've never patroled that area or what, but there is ALWAYS at least a net. So of coarse there could be confusion. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The net was usually there to prevent those that shouldn't be in the pipe (kids on leashes etc) from getting in there since it reguired you to drop in from the side. When the net wasn't up, everyone would be in there ruining for you pipe riders. And yes, I patrolled the pipe and park trying to keep the ones who were a danger to themselves and others out of there.
lurker Posted January 6, 2005 Author Report Posted January 6, 2005 (edited) Yeah, I agree ski911, its just that it was very confusing to whether it was actually closed or not. Saying it was 10:15 was a guess. All I know is I got on the lift at about 9:58 and the nice lifties said it was my last run. I just skied down at a normal speed, and was going home right then. I don't know I just assumed, that the signs at the top were the same as the fence. When I saw the park crew taking out all the closed signs, that also made me think that the pipe was open. I didn't as much run away as, decided it would be a go idea to go home quickly . He didn't whistle or anything so I decided it couldn't hurt. He caught up to me very quickly and I politely stopped when he told me to. I always ski in control, and don't go for a hit if someone is in my way or anything. When I live out west in about 2 years, I won't ever go on closed trails, because I'm sure when I get there and there is fresh snow, there will be more than 3 trails open. I understand you guy's point of view, and I know a couple patrollers. I just think that this could have been handled much differently. Oh yeah, I wasn't in trouble for being there that late, I was in trouble for dropping in the last 15 feet of the pipe. Its interesting to hear everyones opinion though. From the patrol themselves, to the racer's views, to the freestlyer's views. Edited January 6, 2005 by lurker
Margaritaville Skier Posted January 6, 2005 Report Posted January 6, 2005 Hey man, don't judge all of us because of the actions by a few. We're all skiers and boarders.
lurker Posted January 6, 2005 Author Report Posted January 6, 2005 But then they gang up on you and out of fear you back down? Way to show them! I don't know, man, but I'd have hung onto that kid's season pass and pulled out a night stick and cracked some skulls. G*dda*mn loiterers in Colorado go to prison---we need some laws like that! Still there at 10:30pm and you get you b*lls cut off! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Haha, yeah I was definently afraid that those boarders were not going to help my cause. The patroler didn't back down in fear, he just looked like he was sick of all the crap, and wanted to go home. (It was pretty late by then)
lurker Posted January 6, 2005 Author Report Posted January 6, 2005 Hey man, don't judge all of us because of the actions by a few. We're all skiers and boarders. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Wait, me? I'm sorry if I offended anybody. I didn't think that I was judging anyone. Maybe I mistyped something. I agree that most of the ski patrol is a cool bunch of guys, just sometimes a couple can make it hard. From your posts it sounds like your the exact type of patroler I would like all of them to be at CB. Just the fact that you know what the fence is all about, and everything verifies that.
Ski Posted January 6, 2005 Report Posted January 6, 2005 "He said it was clearly marked and that the fence had been dragged in the woods by someone." His arguement was over at this point. He needed to go put the fence back and tell you to have a nice night. Period.
skidude Posted January 6, 2005 Report Posted January 6, 2005 Well doesn't the fence need to come down after they close (after 10pm) anyway so they can run a groomer around? Also i can't tell what is so hard to see if there are closed signs up in the pipe...Usually I can see the orange lollypop signs from the quad...But maybe on the weekdays they only put like 2 signs up, insted of about 10.
Margaritaville Skier Posted January 6, 2005 Report Posted January 6, 2005 Wait, me? I'm sorry if I offended anybody. I didn't think that I was judging anyone. Maybe I mistyped something. I agree that most of the ski patrol is a cool bunch of guys, just sometimes a couple can make it hard. From your posts it sounds like your the exact type of patroler I would like all of them to be at CB. Just the fact that you know what the fence is all about, and everything verifies that. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No offense taken. Maybe you should change your signature to "I hate certain rangers!" LOL PAX Stuck in the80's, 80f that is!
ski911 Posted January 6, 2005 Report Posted January 6, 2005 As I said before, one or two signs is just as closed as ten. The orange nets can be used in conjunction with closed signs to ensure a trail is closed visually, however, we often just use closed signs to mark something closed. You are also correct about the net being used as a diverter to make people drop in instead of shooting the middle. I am assuming that you had been there most of the night or at least for a few hours. I find it very difficult to believe that you did not know that the pipe was closed. Not only where there closed signs it was also marked closed on the trail board in the base area.
AtomicSkier Posted January 6, 2005 Report Posted January 6, 2005 The problem is though, I have frequently thought the 1/2 pipe was closed, but yet it was open. It's really confusing. And plus, Camelback should have a seperate trail just for the 1/2 pipe like Blue does, it gets less use, and you can DEFINATLY see that it's closed. anyway... I too, have had a problem with Camelback trail closing signs. I was comming off the Asp I believe...and i decided to take a run down Meadows (i think)...so I see like 3 lolipops before I crossed over to Meadows, and at blue, the lolipops mean "experts only" or "obstacle" such as a terrain park feature...well apparently, at Camelback, they mean closed. and I argued with the guy for a good 10 minutes telling him they need to have a uniform system to show trai closings, and i don't care what anyway says. LOLIPOPS ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH! Camelback management, if you're reading this post, as you do others, please! Improve! I have see everything from a retractable tape, to a net (at the top of cliffy) to just lolipops, and frankly, lolipop are small, and can't be read from a distance. At the top of the sullivan, if you turn right, there is that little path to the asp, well blue has a few off those, but skipatrol has gone out of their way to put a net, or but crisscrosed bamboo poles so you know you cant go down it, not just a verticle pole. but anyway, it was 10:15 or so, you really shouldn't have taken that last run, I know Blue closes the east side of the mtn around 9:50 or so to start moving people over....But nonetheless, at least he let you go, unfortunatly, the ranger I met, didn't, and I still have my circled ticket to prove it. </rant>
Glenn Posted January 6, 2005 Report Posted January 6, 2005 I think what atomic is touching on is the larger issue here. The trail was closed, but if its poorly marked, or marked in an unusual way its difficult to tell if its closed. Usually when the pipe is closed they have lollipops the whole way down. Thats because people enter the pipe the whole way down. Its not a normal "trail" so its stupid to treat it like a normal trail. If CB is going to have a policy of marking the pipe with lots of lollipops all the way down the pipe with a gate at the top one day, then two lollipops at the top none down the sides the next day (or in this case the same day) of coarse its going to create confusion. They guy let him off (which is cool) after lots of arguing (not cool), but its more than just a problem with patrolers/rangers/etc. Its a problem with policy. The whole thing is if you have a consistant policy it makes everything a lot better. I don't have a problem with people doing their jobs. I do have a problem with people being jerks while they do their jobs, and putting blame where it doesn't belong (ie people riding the pipe rather than whoever was supposed to mark the trail, have the gate etc).
skidude Posted January 6, 2005 Report Posted January 6, 2005 I agree that CB could use bigger markers and stuff to mark off closed trails...But at 1015 I can see if the ski partrol just is yanking the stuff right from when they stop letting people on the lifts, just so they are not there too late pulling signs off the trails so they can be groomed. Cb usually keeps letting you make laps until about 10:10 or so, but by 1015, you should really be off the hill. Anyway....
Glenn Posted January 6, 2005 Report Posted January 6, 2005 I agree that CB could use bigger markers and stuff to mark off closed trails...But at 1015 I can see if the ski partrol just is yanking the stuff right from when they stop letting people on the lifts, just so they are not there too late pulling signs off the trails so they can be groomed. Cb usually keeps letting you make laps until about 10:10 or so, but by 1015, you should really be off the hill. Anyway.... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> He said it was an estimation, he got off the lift at 9:58, I would be surprised if it were really as late as 10:15. Also like he said, it wasn't a you're out on the trail too late, it was a the pipe is closed deal.
skidude Posted January 6, 2005 Report Posted January 6, 2005 Ok so tomorrow night they will turn all the lifts off at 930, cept for the coolmore lift...That will slove all the problems. **what I am trying to say here is after 10 don't give CB any excuses to get mad at you, which will in the future make them want to close up earlier** Anyway I think we have beat this topic to death already...
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