Ski Jumping at Camelback on Friday Jan 25

[skilift]

We got there around 10am, and were freezing in the lift ticket line. We dressed real good, and ended up sweating alot in the sunny 25 degree, 15 mph winds beautiful day. I brought my two teenage sons, 13 and 15; and my 14year old nephew who never skiied before. I consider myself a pretty good teacher, but this student was my best ever as I had him parellel skiing on the Nile Mile after only five runs on the Sun Bowl. We were having a great time, then it happened. I took the bunch down the expert Rhodendendrum Glenn Park, not necesarily to hit all the jumps, but to experiment with a little air. Well my 15 year old got his testosterone going and went flying off the first jump, 20 feet later he made a perfect landing and picked up even more speed for his second jump. Being far behind, all I could see is my son, about 20 feet in the air, and whose body was parallel with the ground. As he was descending in this horizontal position, he disappeared from my view behind the high mound of snow they use for the jump. The next thing I see is a ski flying twenty feet in the air and another ski flying twenty feet to the left. He got the wind knocked out of him and his back is killing him, but he is alright and skiied gingerly the rest of the day. At least, the two CB workers whose only job it is, is to sit by the jump and whistle off other jumpers from landing on my motionless son, got something to do.

[toast21602]

and that is why you shouldn't go in the park if you dont know what you are doing....

 

ps- i doubt he was '20 feet in the air'... watch the super pipe last night? 20 feet is HUGE.

[rgrwilco]

does this all mean that theres no park passes anymore?

[stevePSSC]

i think your son should of experimented with the jumps in the Laurel Glade park first... this is a perfect example why guys like you shouldn't take their kids through the park especially the "Advanced Park" when they don't know what they are doing!

 

and yes there is no way your kid got 20 feet of air at camelback.... that is impossible.. unless maybe he jumped off the lift

 

 

Here is an image of Simon Dumont getting roughly 15' of air out of the pipe.. now he probably went higher, im guessing this shot was not taken at the peak.. because Simon always goes huge in the pipe.. look at that and then tell me again that your son got 20' of air

[method9455]

happened. I took the bunch down the expert Rhodendendrum Glenn Park, not necesarily to hit all the jumps, but to experiment with a little air.

 

Thats what Laurel glade is for, or the 3 jumps at the bottom of that run, neither of the two jumps in that park are good for "experimenting"

 

At least, the two CB workers whose only job it is, is to sit by the jump and whistle off other jumpers from landing on my motionless son, got something to do.

 

The fact that they have two guys who do that is great, I wouldn't rip that at all. I wish more mountains did that, it would prevent injuries.

[NJSkiFamily]

I agree with the others - please don't ever try "experimenting" in the park. I never let my kids on any feature in the parks without having been taught by an instructor on how to do it.

[Glenn]

Sorry your son got hurt.

 

Park is all about experimenting. It's also about progression, which means starting small. Just because you can slay diamond runs doesn't mean you can slay the expert park. It's also about taking hard falls. Sometimes you shake it off, sometimes you recoup for a day/week/month/year.

[moe ghoul]

Sorry your son got hurt.

 

Park is all about experimenting. It's also about progression, which means starting small. Just because you can slay diamond runs doesn't mean you can slay the expert park. It's also about taking hard falls. Sometimes you shake it off, sometimes you recoup for a day/week/month/year.

 

 

Sorry to hear about the injury. Learning to fall properly isn't emphasized enough, it makes the difference between serious injuries and shaking it off. Hope he's feeling better.

[method9455]

i think your son should of experimented with the jumps in the Laurel Glade park first... this is a perfect example why guys like you shouldn't take their kids through the park especially the "Advanced Park" when they don't know what they are doing!

 

and yes there is no way your kid got 20 feet of air at camelback.... that is impossible.. unless maybe he jumped off the lift

 

 

Here is an image of Simon Dumont getting roughly 15' of air out of the pipe.. now he probably went higher, im guessing this shot was not taken at the peak.. because Simon always goes huge in the pipe.. look at that and then tell me again that your son got 20' of air

 

Ha that is a great post. Put the 20' air with the 60' jumps all over PA and NJ now. Bullshit, they're 35 foot jumps and you got 10 feet in the air. Look at the X games, the biggest jump in slopestyle is 68 feet and it is twice as big as anything we've ever seen around here. 1 skier was going bigger than 20' in the pipe.

 

That being said - falling from 5' in the air can break your neck easily, we're jumping on you because this is how people get killed, go read the daily record from last week, a doctor from NJ tried a jump in the park, landed on his head and died. Don't let that happen to your kid just because you underestimate the risks, and at 13 and 15, they're not going to estimate their limits well at all.

[NJSkiFamily]

That being said - falling from 5' in the air can break your neck easily, we're jumping on you because this is how people get killed, go read the daily record from last week, a doctor from NJ tried a jump in the park, landed on his head and died. Don't let that happen to your kid just because you underestimate the risks, and at 13 and 15, they're not going to estimate their limits well at all.

 

I was thinking about that same article when I read this thread. Wasn't that doctor 35 years old and look what happened.

 

Your son is lucky all he got was a sore back and I'm sure some vicious whiplash as well. That's why we're jumping on you. And if he took a fall like that I would have taken him to the first aid area to get him checked out.

[Justin]

Moving people off jumps is almost a necessity for safety in the park. Most jumps have blind landings. I remember I fell on one of the jumps at Blue with a snowboarder trailing my ass in the line. He hit the jump and seen me mid air, tried to land sideways and broke his board. He was so pissed, but it was his fault for following me.

[AtomicSkier]

Good to see that CB has a progressive park. That's what the sport is all about, progression. PM Papasteeze for details on progressive parks, park passes, smart style, and good deals for Jackson Hole.

[skilift]

Thank you everyone for your concern and advice for my son. His back still hurts and I may have to bring him to the doctor. He said the pain is about a four on a scale from 1 to 10, but there is more stiffness than pain. We usually, just ski around the jumps and I instructed everyone just that before we entered the park. Both Laurel Glade and Rhodendendrom Glenn are marked expert so I did not know that one was easier than the other. I have found that if you go around the jumps, or just go off the side at a slow speed, an intermediate skiier can do these runs as they are not very steep. Those of you who are parents must know how bad I feel for not properly protecting the kids who were in my care. That said, you cant always stop a teenage boy whose testosterone levels are out of control. Sometimes I am just not careful enough as a parent and I thank God that my son did not have a serious injury. I usually ski with just one or two kids, but I had my hands full with three and I thought the older one was more responsible than that. I am sure from now on he will be more careful.

 

I sure was way off about the height of his jump, but I do know that it was way to much for his ability.

[skilift]

Ha that is a great post. Put the 20' air with the 60' jumps all over PA and NJ now. Bullshit, they're 35 foot jumps and you got 10 feet in the air. Look at the X games, the biggest jump in slopestyle is 68 feet and it is twice as big as anything we've ever seen around here. 1 skier was going bigger than 20' in the pipe.

 

That being said - falling from 5' in the air can break your neck easily, we're jumping on you because this is how people get killed, go read the daily record from last week, a doctor from NJ tried a jump in the park, landed on his head and died. Don't let that happen to your kid just because you underestimate the risks, and at 13 and 15, they're not going to estimate their limits well at all.

 

Thanks, I emailed that article to my son.

[skilift]

Thats what Laurel glade is for, or the 3 jumps at the bottom of that run, neither of the two jumps in that park are good for "experimenting"

 

 

 

The fact that they have two guys who do that is great, I wouldn't rip that at all. I wish more mountains did that, it would prevent injuries.

 

You're right! Having those two workers there is a necessity, and I applaud CB for having them. I was not ripping them at all, just making light of what could have been a serious situation.

 

I remember skiing in Killington and watching I guy take big air, and yelling "oh crap" in mid air as there was a fallen skiier right where he was going. Fortunately, he missed him, but it was a close call.

[toast21602]

You're right! Having those two workers there is a necessity, and I applaud CB for having them. I was not ripping them at all, just making light of what could have been a serious situation.

 

I remember skiing in Killington and watching I guy take big air, and yelling "oh crap" in mid air as there was a fallen skiier right where he was going. Fortunately, he missed him, but it was a close call.

 

just glad to see that you understand what we are trying to say about taking your kids in the park and the dangers that are invovled. if your son is interested, maybe he could take some freeride lessons? keep us posted on your son, though. we always hate to see a skier or rider injured.

[skilift]

just glad to see that you understand what we are trying to say about taking your kids in the park and the dangers that are invovled. if your son is interested, maybe he could take some freeride lessons? keep us posted on your son, though. we always hate to see a skier or rider injured.

 

I brought my son to the doctor today and he has a muscle spasm in his upper back / neck muscle (rhomboid). Ice, Anti-inflamatories, and rest is the treatment. He should be healed in two weeks. Thank God, that's all it is.

[NJSkiFamily]

I brought my son to the doctor today and he has a muscle spasm in his upper back / neck muscle (rhomboid). Ice, Anti-inflamatories, and rest is the treatment. He should be healed in two weeks. Thank God, that's all it is.

 

And hopefully a lifelong lesson.

 

Glad its nothing serious.

 

I also second getting a freestyle lesson. The parks are fun but the margin for error is nill. My kids took a freestyle private lesson at Smuggler's Notch last year. I went along as well. It was a lot of fun and I learned a lot.

[RightEmpire]

Skilift, its nice to see you learned from your experiences. I cant tell you how many times I see people just ride through the park at almost every mountain and sit on the landing below a jump. My buddy almost hit a lady and her son pizzaing down a landing, they could have easily been killed/seriously injured. He went back to yell at her and she claimed "everyone has access to this trail and its your responsibility to avoid me". I still cant get the thought out of my mind of someone on the landing everytime I drop at Boulder.

Edited January 29, 2008 by tricgnu

[jordan]

she claimed "everyone has access to this trail and its your responsibility to avoid me". I still cant get the thought out of my mind of someone on the landing everytime I drop at Boulder.

She is right, if you can't see a landing, it is your responsibility to have a spotter. Now, that said, it is never good practice to stand on landings.

[method9455]

She is right, if you can't see a landing, it is your responsibility to have a spotter. Now, that said, it is never good practice to stand on landings.

 

Thats not true. While the skiers responsibility code says you have to avoid people downhill of you, the smarstyle sign says explicitly that you have to stay off landings. Since the smartstyle's scope is solely park I would say it over rules the skiers responsibility code when they conflict. And what landing can you see? I can't think of a jump where I could ever see the landing from the ramp except a hip.

 

That said, I do worry on busy days about people in the landings. For me, I never take the center of the ramp. I move off about 3 feet, this way if someone before me falls I won't hit them. If I can see what part of the ramp the guy before me went I will go as far away from it as is possible so I avoid him. I think its more dangerous to land on someone who is not moving than come and hit someone who is moving from behind. The problem comes if someone is completely randomly sitting there. So I always call my drop, loud, and I look for someone waving me off. For spotters, it is kind of impracticle. Sometimes I have one when someone is filming me, but they are standing on the first jump, what happens in a 3 jump line? Should I have 3 spotters? So now we need 4 people to go through the park and only 1 gets to ride? So I do what I can but in the end, people need to stay out of the way.

[skilift]

Thats not true. While the skiers responsibility code says you have to avoid people downhill of you, the smarstyle sign says explicitly that you have to stay off landings. Since the smartstyle's scope is solely park I would say it over rules the skiers responsibility code when they conflict. And what landing can you see? I can't think of a jump where I could ever see the landing from the ramp except a hip.

 

I am learning about the parks as I go, and I never heard of the smart style signs before, so I searched and found this at http://www.nsaa.org/nsaa/safety/smart-style/

 

MAKE A PLAN

Every time you use freestyle terrain, make a plan for each feature you want to use. Your speed, approach and take off will directly affect your maneuver and landing.

LOOK BEFORE YOU LEAP

Scope around the jumps first, not over them. Know your landings are clear and clear yourself out of the landing area.

EASY STYLE IT

Start small and work your way up. (Inverted aerials not recommended).

RESPECT GETS RESPECT

From the lift line through the park.

 

As you can see, the smart style sign does say to "know your landings are clear". Also, there is a difference between "stay off landings" as you say, and "clear yourself out of the landing area". The difference being, if you fall and hurt yourself on a landing, you may not be able to clear yourself right away.

 

CB had two workers there to be "spotters" for all jumpers, as they whistled off all oncoming jumpers as my son lay on the landing area motionless for five minutes.

[toast21602]

there isnt really a difference between the two with the exception of somebody being hurt. other than that, regardless of the situation, there is NO reason to be on the landing of a jump.

[Glenn]

She is right, if you can't see a landing, it is your responsibility to have a spotter. Now, that said, it is never good practice to stand on landings.

 

It's also against the skier code to stand in blind spots behind jumps and cliffs. I'm not sure which one takes precedent.

[method9455]

I just don't see how it is ever going to work if you need a spotter for every jump. The park is like driving a car. There is a lot of risk, people get injured and killed. You have to do everything to minimize that risk. As the driver of the car if you do anything remotely reckless and kill a pedestrian, it is manslaughter. But if a person jumps out into the middle of the road at night and the driver does everything they can to avoid that person, and still end up hitting them, they do not get charged. I see it the same way in the park, I do every possible thing I can to avoid people, and I end up hitting someone who was doing something blatantly stupid because "they paid for a pass so they can ski where ever they want" it can't possibly be my fault. It is entirely unpreventable for me going over a jump to spot the jump myself. Its like your saying that if I hit a scuba diver with my boat because he didn't put a flag up, its my fault. If liability worked that way, no one could hit jumps, no one would drive, and no one could boat, among a million other things. Just because you are the victim doesn't mean that you are blameless, recklessness goes both ways. Also, this is a huge assumption that the person IN the landing is the one who gets hurt. I would bet that if I came over a jump and saw someone in my landing area at a high rate of speed, and I did manage to avoid them, I would get hurt in the process. Now are they liable? Doubtful, even though it is their fault.

 

Which brings me back to my original favorite position - this is why we need park passes, and real park passes where you have to sit through a video for 30 minutes and pay some money, designed to discourage people and reduce liability. There is no correlation between this kind of danger in the park park and anything else in the sport, no where else do you have to have faith in those around you doing what you expect them to do so that you don't get hurt. We've had this conversation a thousand times but its the only solution I see. It is a hassle for those of us who know it, and those who just want to ski through, and I hate them when I visit a place like stratton for a day and I can't use the park because I don't have a pass, but at the end of the day it is the only way to make the blind jumps any safer. Spotters are even more of a hassle to implement on your own, and even more expensive for the mountain. If you have 1 guy per trail checking passes, it is cheaper than 1 guy per jump checking landings.