Ski Jumping at Camelback on Friday Jan 25

[sirfrancisbacon9]

whenever i go to whiteface, which is pretty much every weekend, they have the park crew stand on the table part of the jumps, so if u crash they can signal the people about to drop to not go, (and to rake the landing so it stays clean) but this is only in the big park on brookside.

 

however getting back to camelback, wtf is up with the trains of racer kids going into the parks and snaking the lines? come on i know its fun to watch those kids overshoot each jump without any regard for their own well being, but when a bunch of them cut off ur little brother whos learning how to jump for the first time, its freaking ridiculous. i was teaching my little bro how to jump in the lower moores ramble park and as he's going up the first jump and a bunch of rats in speed suits come barreling arounding him, almost causing a mid-air collision, im not hating on racers or anything because it could have been anybody, but rules have to be followed, especially in any park, or else they could have some severe consequences, luckily nothing happened this time.

[skilift]

I just don't see how it is ever going to work if you need a spotter for every jump. ...

 

You make a lot of sense. You're right. There are other factors at work that make things wacky, like political correctness, greed, insurance companies, and lawyers.

 

Consider selling alcohol on the slopes, sometimes at the top of the mountain! Resorts are insured up to the waazoo to protect themselves against lawsuits.

 

It must suck that you go all the way to Stratton (not my fav) and cant use the damn park.

 

I think on a crowded day, resorts can either pay spotters, or pay higher insurance bills.

[Mike Piccoletti]

I know i'm a little late guys, But when you see your SON flying through the air in trouble, you may see a F*n pixy or something next to him, all you know, is that he's in trouble, and I think you guys are asses for proving that his son did not get 20 feet of air...

[skilift]

I know i'm a little late guys, But when you see your SON flying through the air in trouble, you may see a F*n pixy or something next to him, all you know, is that he's in trouble, and I think you guys are asses for proving that his son did not get 20 feet of air...

 

Mike, thanks for chiming in. I liked your post. I agree, those few people going to great lenghts to prove my son did not go 20 feet in the air were real asses. dont they ever exagerate stories? I was surprised to read your profile and find out that you are only 14, because, seriously, your post sounded more mature than that. I also think that those few who said how reckless my son and I were, are throwing stones from their glass houses. They dont know us, but its a free country and they can be judgemental if they choose.

 

If I could give you one peice of advice, young man, please do not use your real name as your user name, and also, please dont put your picture in your profile anywhere online. It's just not good practice for any teenager in today's world.

 

Good luck, sir, and keep on skiing/riding, its a great sport.

[toast21602]

ah yes, you are right. we were asses for telling you not to go in the park if you are unsure what you are doing. what were we possibly thinking trying to protect you and everybody else in the park?! how inconsiderate everybody and myself are. please accept my apology.

[Dan-]

this is the real world...no one uses spotters...as method said, the logistics of them are complicated

 

 

You sure about that...? When the park gets ridiculous, we have someone scope the line to make sure it's clear...

 

And Mike.... Im gonna have to agree with toast. You don't know how many people we see every day doing the wrong thing. Standing on landings, cutting people off in the jump line to just cruise over the landing.. The park isn't a joke. If nothing is done someone is going to get wrecked. Period. Today i saw one of the the best things i ever saw on the hill. One of the guys we were riding with got snaked in the pipe by i'd say a 6 year old kid who just decided to cruise through the pipe? Why i don't know. But his dad comes flying down to us, stops his kid in his tracks, and makes him apologize to our friend and he told his son that he needs to wait his turn and yell drop before going.. Now if only all of the parents could be like this guy...

Edited February 3, 2008 by Dan-

[RightEmpire]

Today i saw one of the the best things i ever saw on the hill. One of the guys we were riding with got snaked in the pipe by i'd say a 6 year old kid who just decided to cruise through the pipe? Why i don't know. But his dad comes flying down to us, stops his kid in his tracks, and makes him apologize to our friend and he told his son that he needs to wait his turn and yell drop before going.. Now if only all of the parents could be like this guy...

 

That is one of the greatest stories of all time. Too bad witnessing something like that only happens once in a lifetime. I wonder if this "gapers in the park" problem is only in PA/NJ? I travel out west and up to VT quite frequently and its never this bad, sometimes non-existant.

[rgrwilco]

its only around here. its not up north as much. even at hunter i didnt see this problem. waterville had noobs, but they were respectful of the rules. did not see it at stowe, whiteface, but did however see it a bit at killington. granted it was thanksgiving weekend with limited terrain.

 

i assume it probobly happens frequently down south too though. i think it has to do with the mass amount of complete morons in the tri state area. if half the population cannot respect safety and others on the road, how are they going to do it on the mountain?

[Glenn]

I snake the line in the small jump park everyday on my way back from snow removal. So does every other actual park rider. The families, huge lesson groups and other random gapers just stand around at the top waiting for courage. When the crowds get bad all we just call out for a train and usually 20+ people will get in on it through the jump line.

 

The bigger parks don't have nearly as many people and way more space, so it's not like people seamingly come out of nowhere like in the east. Still, park etiquette is a loose set of rules which should only be obeyed when it's convenient and you don't need to wait 20 minutes for a feature.

 

To quote my friend Joe: "I'll tell you about park etiquette. Snake the line, spray the gapers and gap the hotties."

 

I'm only half joking.

Edited February 4, 2008 by Glenn

[Papasteeze]

I ripped through this thread. What happened to start small?

[Glenn]

I ripped through this thread. What happened to start small?

 

Multiple people mentioned how using laurel glade would have been the appropriate approach, though the phrase "start small" was not explicitly used.

[Saurus]

Im going to camelback sunday. If i watch the movie and get the park pass for i think the 5 dollars can i use it to go on other trails and such?

[Papasteeze]

Im going to camelback sunday. If i watch the movie and get the park pass for i think the 5 dollars can i use it to go on other trails and such?

 

no, you must stay in the park all the time after you have hit the big jumps first

[IrishSnow686]

You sure about that...? When the park gets ridiculous, we have someone scope the line to make sure it's clear...

 

And Mike.... Im gonna have to agree with toast. You don't know how many people we see every day doing the wrong thing. Standing on landings, cutting people off in the jump line to just cruise over the landing.. The park isn't a joke. If nothing is done someone is going to get wrecked. Period.

 

On the Blue Mt. forum, I posted in a thread last week that I was in Blue's park and was dropping in to hit one of the jumps, jus then a little kid, maybe 8-10 years old, came from the far right of the trail looking over his right shoulder for, and I am only guessing, his dad to watch go down the landing of the jump. No one was in the line and the must have come from a blind spot. But the kid never saw me, I did my best to avoid him but we hit, threw me off line and off the side of the jump. I proceeded to go off the side of the trail and about 10 feet down hard pack ice blocks and another 10 feet in the woods over rocks and off trees. I hit my head really good on a tree, good thing I had a helmet. Knee's, face and elbows were all cut up. Even though the crash was not fun, I was very lucky I did not get seriously hurt because of some little kid who had no reason to be in the park. They never even stopped to see if I was ok, had I been really hurt I could have been layed up in those woods for quite some time before anyone even noticed I was down there. I'm sure the little kid got so scared that we hit that he just kept quiet and didnt even mention to his dad he cut someone off and they fell off trail. These people do not realize how DANGEROUS it is for everyone to do things like that.

I'm all for progession, you have to try to stuff at someone point if you want to progress to it.. we all had to at one point. But learn how to do it on smaller features and then take that knowledge to larger features. I'm find w/ people going in the park and not doing anything but ski or ride down, but STAY CLEAR of the features and respect the ones who are using them. Stay clear and keep it safe for everyone.

[toast21602]

I'm find w/ people going in the park and not doing anything but ski or ride down, but STAY CLEAR of the features and respect the ones who are using them. Stay clear and keep it safe for everyone.

 

you get an A.

 

[method9455]

Mike, thanks for chiming in. I liked your post. I agree, those few people going to great lenghts to prove my son did not go 20 feet in the air were real asses. dont they ever exagerate stories? I was surprised to read your profile and find out that you are only 14, because, seriously, your post sounded more mature than that. I also think that those few who said how reckless my son and I were, are throwing stones from their glass houses. They dont know us, but its a free country and they can be judgemental if they choose.

 

If I could give you one peice of advice, young man, please do not use your real name as your user name, and also, please dont put your picture in your profile anywhere online. It's just not good practice for any teenager in today's world.

 

Good luck, sir, and keep on skiing/riding, its a great sport.

 

No, we're not asses for telling you that you have the measurements wrong. When I come on here and post that a jump is 25 feet, or a jump is 35 feet, everyone who has an indication of size knows what that means. When I say a jump had a 4 foot step down, people know what that means. So say your kid DID land that jump, and you said WOW he went 20 feet high, and then I post, hey Blue has a bunch of great jumps that put you up 10 feet in their main park, and you went there and said hey these jumps are 1/2 the size of the ones at camelback, and your kid hits them, and then oh crap they send him twice as high as the one at Camelback, because in reality your kid did a 10 foot jump, got 5 feet of air and really hurt himself. The kick on a jump varies a lot, and I can tell you that if you can't tell 5 feet from 20 feet, you can't tell what will kick you high and what won't. If he did a 20 foot jump he would be in a coffin, and we would be reading about it in the newspaper and I would be lamenting about it like I did about 15 days ago here: Skier dies in terrain park

 

The first day I was teaching my friend how to hit jumps, we where using a 5-8 foot step down, the last one in the Laurel glade park. He broke his nose on it when a kid cut him off, and that was an 8 foot jump. He had a stiff neck for a few days with it too. If you kid had landed head first on the jump he tried which was twice as big as that what would have happened? So thats what we're trying to say, SMALL THINGS CAN HURT YOU, and BIG THINGS CAN KILL YOU. So when you read it as us trying to cut you down because only we can go that big, we read it as you obfuscating the dangers of THE ENTIRE park by making it sound like your kid went off this giant pro sized kicker that only a handful of people in the world would be able to hit. A jump that throws you 20 feet is out of the ordinary, it would be like saying you hurt your leg jumping off a cliff, and other people would read it and say "what an idiot, he jumped off a cliff, no wonder he hurt his leg, that would never happen to me" We're saying, no he didn't do that, he was doing something normal that we see everyday and got hurt, it brings it back to reality so that anyone reading this thread knows they too could have gotten hurt even if it LOOKS small.

 

Just because a bunch of guys rip through the park and make it look easy doesn't mean it is. I've been riding park for 4 years, I go about 30 days a year, of that I spend 5 or 6 of just in the park, and the other days I spend maybe an hour or two in the park. Just the last two years have I been comfortable on big jumps. In that time I've done dozens of jumps hundreds of times, and hundreds of rails thousands of times. So has every other guy out there, at blue its 20 features on the way down, with a lift that you are doing 6 runs an hour, so 120 hits an hour for 6 hours a day is 600 hits a day? Some places it might be 200 because of slower lifts, but the point is that I'm doing 1,000 hits a season at least, and so are the other guys here even if they didn't count it out like that, they are. How many turns do you make in one run on the way down? How many runs and days did it take to do a black diamond? How many turns up to that point total did it take to get the confidence to do that black diamond? Thousands and thousands of repetitions. People think just because they can ride they can ride in the park, but it is completely different, the only reason they are getting away with it is because the ski hills are all run by guys who don't ride the park either and have no concept of what the REAL dangers are.

[toast21602]

People think just because they can ride they can ride in the park, but it is completely different, the only reason they are getting away with it is because the ski hills are all run by guys who don't ride the park either and have no concept of what the REAL dangers are.

 

so true and well said. it takes time. and a hell of a lot of it to be able to hit things comfortably in the park. i am relatively comfortable in the park with a lot of things and i'm still extremely cautious every run, every lip, every rail, every jump, every landing, and even just skiing in between features because it is NOTHING like the rest of the mountain.

[Glenn]

Mike, thanks for chiming in. I liked your post. I agree, those few people going to great lenghts to prove my son did not go 20 feet in the air were real asses. dont they ever exagerate stories? I was surprised to read your profile and find out that you are only 14, because, seriously, your post sounded more mature than that. I also think that those few who said how reckless my son and I were, are throwing stones from their glass houses. They dont know us, but its a free country and they can be judgemental if they choose.

 

If I could give you one peice of advice, young man, please do not use your real name as your user name, and also, please dont put your picture in your profile anywhere online. It's just not good practice for any teenager in today's world.

 

Good luck, sir, and keep on skiing/riding, its a great sport.

 

Skilift,

 

We aren't trying to beat up on you. In fact, many discussions on this board have happened exclusively from the perspective of experienced (to some degree) park rats regarding riders such as yourself and your son. From my memory this is the first time a rank novice has posted about frustrations and injuries on first trips through the park. You experienced years of pent up emotion from people who ride this stuff every day and affected by the choices you and your son, and the hundreds of others who wander into the park uneducated make. Feature sizes and setups are dictated to protect your son, rather than benefit those who have taken the time develop park skills and knowledge.

 

That being said few respond well to negative criticism and fewer know how to gently and empathically correct others blunders. To add to all this, there are tons of claimers who wildly exagerate figures regarding snow sports, and we generally think these people are lame. Considering your son was injured, it wasn't the coolest thing to call you out. It is what it is though. Hopefully you aren't put off from the website, and understand we don't want you or your son getting hurt, and we don't want to be injured because of you or your son. Reading through the smartstyle rules and going over them with your son would be a super positive thing. They are the basics for park safety, and you really do look way cooler to the guys who can actually ride if you follow the rules.

Edited February 7, 2008 by Glenn

[method9455]

Reading through the smartstyle rules and going over them with your son would be a super positive thing. They are the basics for park safety, and you really do look way cooler to the guys who can actually ride if you follow the rules.

 

That is very true. There are certaintly a bunch of guys who are dicks in the park, I do not fall into that category. Generally for me I'm in the park in one of two modes, either I'm banging down on the big jumps/rails with tricks I have perfected, or I am in the beginner park hiking the smallest of boxes learning something. Many times I have been hiking that box and there are some kids trying to learn how to do something and I'll help them out, because they are trying something appropriate for their skill and there are so many little things I wish people had told me when I was learning because at the time there was no one teaching us, it was all trial and error. I don't care if people aren't good in the park, I have been there, and I consider myself bad at the park for the amount of time I've spent in it, I'm definitely not a natural at it, I have a problem with people doing something stupid that is going to get them or me hurt, which makes the mountain warry of expanding the park.

[Papasteeze]

Skilift,

 

We aren't trying to beat up on you. In fact, many discussions on this board have happened exclusively from the perspective of experienced (to some degree) park rats regarding riders such as yourself and your son. From my memory this is the first time a rank novice has posted about frustrations and injuries on first trips through the park. You experienced years of pent up emotion from people who ride this stuff every day and affected by the choices you and your son, and the hundreds of others who wander into the park uneducated make. Feature sizes and setups are dictated to protect your son, rather than benefit those who have taken the time develop park skills and knowledge.

 

That being said few respond well to negative criticism and fewer know how to gently and empathically correct others blunders. To add to all this, there are tons of claimers who wildly exagerate figures regarding snow sports, and we generally think these people are lame. Considering your son was injured, it wasn't the coolest thing to call you out. It is what it is though. Hopefully you aren't put off from the website, and understand we don't want you or your son getting hurt, and we don't want to be injured because of you or your son. Reading through the smartstyle rules and going over them with your son would be a super positive thing. They are the basics for park safety, and you really do look way cooler to the guys who can actually ride if you follow the rules.

 

 

Extremely well said and very worth repeating this mans point.

 

Skilift, I am a parent of skiing park rat, who competes on a national level and I believe there are very few people in this region who have the observational experience that I have. What Glenn has said is perfect. I am having trouble finding words to validate what he wrote.

 

I hope that you share information from this thread and this board with your son. You will find numerous kids and parents who love the snow and will be eager to help with good advice and tips in spite of the "tone" of some of the replies. ignore the diction and style of the writing and learn the facts. Most of all, be safe and have fun!

 

BTW the way my name is Robert Larick and my sons are Steven and Ridge