Schif Posted February 19, 2008 Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 (edited) You're right ski, I was thinking about putting that in my post but never got around to it. Ok, so the 22 foot pipe is being executed poorly. Its still an attempt at a 22 foot pipe. Sno is probably sinking more money into this one thing than Montage had spent in its last 3 years. Whether or not this turns out great its still progress. I'm no old guy looking back on the past, but what about all those recent years where fastrack and runaway didn't even open? That was pretty damn recent. Count your blessings Montage/Sno faithful instead of ripping on the mountain's progression. From what some of you are saying its almost like you wish it was 3 years ago with a bad base, a few trails still completely brown, and a date with Nelsap coming up. Edited February 19, 2008 by Schifdawg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toast21602 Posted February 19, 2008 Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 From what some of you are saying its almost like you wish it was 3 years ago with a bad base, a few trails still completely brown, and a date with Nelsap coming up. HA! that's what i'm getting out of some of the people bashing what Sno is doing as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xNick11 Posted February 19, 2008 Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 do you think there 22' pipe will be open on sunday? Yes, more then likely it will be open on Sunday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Posted February 19, 2008 Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 You're right ski, I was thinking about putting that in my post but never got around to it. Ok, so the 22 foot pipe is being executed poorly. Its still an attempt at a 22 foot pipe. Sno is probably sinking more money into this one thing than Montage had spent in its last 3 years. Whether or not this turns out great its still progress. I'm no old guy looking back on the past, but what about all those recent years where fastrack and runaway didn't even open? That was pretty damn recent. Count your blessings Montage/Sno faithful instead of ripping on the mountain's progression. From what some of you are saying its almost like you wish it was 3 years ago with a bad base, a few trails still completely brown, and a date with Nelsap coming up. Kind of funny how I've been fighting people by supporting Sno's investment in a superpipe while hating on the best American male ski racer. Things have gotten weird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trackbiker Posted February 20, 2008 Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 (edited) Method, all good points. I learned a lot from your post. I knew about the air pockets being a problem, but I bet most people don't know what "kneading" is. (It's tilling the snow piles to get rid of air pockets.) It's great to see an area spending money. My only concern is what they are spending it on. They could have the best park and lighting system in PA for what they are spending on that pipe. They still have to eventually show a profit. Goes back to the same old question, "How do you end up with $1million in the ski industry? ... Start with $10million!" Bear Creek has a different business plan. After a terrible season last year, they expanded their snowmaking pond, and still added a big addition to their hotel. Obviously, because there is a demand for more rooms. They are booked year-round with weddings and banquets. They primarily market the ski & stay packages to the Baltimore - D.C. area. The mountain is nothing compared to Sno's terrain, but I bet they have more skier visits than Sno. It's always crowded when I'm there. I never thought it would work for "Doe Mtn.", but I was wrong about that. But I've learned what they saw and I didn't. At the time of the sale, Sno said they were not interested in realestate. Don't know if they were/are just biding their time for building permits later, but the money in the ski business is in the hotels and realestate, not the skiing and riding! Just look at all the big players in the ski business. They've been making money in the villages and condos. IMHO, BC has the better business plan. Sno will need to build a hotel to attract the average "few-times-a-year-families-with-money-to-spend" to their water-park and for skiing. Those people don't care about 22' half-pipes. They want long blue cruisers, good grooming, a good ski school for the kids, and apres ski amenities. Edited February 20, 2008 by trackbiker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Posted February 20, 2008 Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 (edited) That's sort of why 99% of what's been posted here is nothing but weak speculation. Does anyone on here read the deal Sno has with the existing hotels just down the road? Jeez, Sno gets hammered for building a superpipe to hold an event and what a bunch of idiots we sound like to nit pick and bitch that they are doing it. Some people on here sound like it's their own money being spent. And, btw, Sno isn't spending a million dollars on the pipe. That was just hyperbole. And Spike was the first slope to get the changeover in lights, yet it's still a point to bitch about? I can give you a hundred reasons why no ski area should have a race team, including all the 'wasted' manpower and lack of profit. And I can list the same number of reasons why all rails and jumps should be removed, like they are at some Canadian resorts. Because you can come up with a few negative points about a project suddenly makes it a bad project? Shit, nothing would ever get done if that were the case. Has anyone read Sno's business plan and seen where and when real estate development is slated to begin? Sno has more acreage for real estate development than CB. I'm not saying it's a great plan or a bad plan, I'm just saying we don't know. Some of you people sound like the 80 year old men sitting around a Dunkin' Donuts all day complaining about their tax bills and why kids today don't pull up their pants. Edited February 20, 2008 by ski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toast21602 Posted February 20, 2008 Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 Some of you people sound like the 80 year old men sitting around a Dunkin' Donuts all day complaining about their tax bills and why kids today don't pull up their pants. somtimes pants really should be pulled up, though. crack kills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JordanA Posted February 20, 2008 Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 Some of you people sound like the 80 year old men sitting around a Dunkin' Donuts all day complaining about their tax bills and why kids today don't pull up their pants. why bring yourself into this ski? haha sorry i had to ski can say whatever he wants back but thats all im saying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan- Posted February 20, 2008 Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 That's sort of why 99% of what's been posted here is nothing but weak speculation. Does anyone on here read the deal Sno has with the existing hotels just down the road? Jeez, Sno gets hammered for building a superpipe to hold an event and what a bunch of idiots we sound like to nit pick and bitch that they are doing it. Some people on here sound like it's their own money being spent. And, btw, Sno isn't spending a million dollars on the pipe. That was just hyperbole. And Spike was the first slope to get the changeover in lights, yet it's still a point to bitch about? I can give you a hundred reasons why no ski area should have a race team, including all the 'wasted' manpower and lack of profit. And I can list the same number of reasons why all rails and jumps should be removed, like they are at some Canadian resorts. Because you can come up with a few negative points about a project suddenly makes it a bad project? Shit, nothing would ever get done if that were the case. Has anyone read Sno's business plan and seen where and when real estate development is slated to begin? Sno has more acreage for real estate development than CB. I'm not saying it's a great plan or a bad plan, I'm just saying we don't know. Some of you people sound like the 80 year old men sitting around a Dunkin' Donuts all day complaining about their tax bills and why kids today don't pull up their pants. Umm.. If you haven't noticed the park scene is growing around here, thus bringing in tons of business. The RCR resorts actually have REAL terrain to ride, unlike anything in Pa. So are they loosing out, not so much because the park scene is much less out there than what it is here, since to many people it's virtually the only thing worth riding in Pa. So thus getting rid of park features for a Pa resort would just be dumb. Period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papasteeze Posted February 20, 2008 Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 Sno has more acreage for real estate development than CB. So is that the real reason they bought snow, for the real estate investment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleaguy Posted February 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 IMHO...yes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
method9455 Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 Method, you seem like a really cool kid and all, with extremely thought-out posts. No disrespect meant, but you drink way too much coffee or something. Ha I'm just going on adrenaline 24/7. I'm doing 2 engineering majors, have a girlfriend, working at a tech startup, playing a sport at school (probably quitting that though not enough time), snowboarding, and try to party a bit (that usually gets left out in favor of snowboarding this time of year though). I sleep like 4-5 hours a night tops and I don't even drink soda much less coffee. So it all kind of comes out rapid fire, plus I was a nerd in middle school typing is faster than speaking for me. It just sucks for my snowboarding, I have 22 full days this year, but I was aiming for 35+ and I only see myself getting 8 more this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 (edited) Umm.. If you haven't noticed the park scene is growing around here, thus bringing in tons of business. The RCR resorts actually have REAL terrain to ride, unlike anything in Pa. So are they loosing out, not so much because the park scene is much less out there than what it is here, since to many people it's virtually the only thing worth riding in Pa. So thus getting rid of park features for a Pa resort would just be dumb. Period. I don't know Dan. I know a huge number of people who won't go outside of the park for more than 1 or 2 runs a day unless we got 5+ inches of snow the night before. There is also a signficant portion on our mountain that won't go outside of the park ever. They just work the in-runs on pow days till they are fast enough to clear the knuckle and then hit the powder landings. We have plenty of good terrain outside of the park, but park rats are park rats, and thats not a bad thing. Those guys throw down way harder than I ever do inside the park. I think in places like JH where there virtually is no park, the scene is tiny. At the resorts where the parks are decent (RCR looked pretty freakin sweat in the park) the scene develops. RCR had to offer refunds to all the people who didn't want to ride there anymore because they wouldn't have any jumps. Method, lay off the crack eh? Edited February 21, 2008 by Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 Umm.. If you haven't noticed the park scene is growing around here, thus bringing in tons of business. The RCR resorts actually have REAL terrain to ride, unlike anything in Pa. So are they loosing out, not so much because the park scene is much less out there than what it is here, since to many people it's virtually the only thing worth riding in Pa. So thus getting rid of park features for a Pa resort would just be dumb. Period. Huh? Did you misunderstand my post, Dan? I wasn't saying to get rid of racing or parks. I was saying that people can come up with lots of negative things about them, but that's not a reason to get rid of either---like they are now doing to parks in parts of Canada. why bring yourself into this ski?haha sorry i had to ski can say whatever he wants back but thats all im saying Yeah, yeah, yeah, when you can't find your Velcro park pass just remember back to posts like that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 So is that the real reason they bought snow, for the real estate investment? I just put 30% down on three ski in/out townhouses on White Lightning's in-run. Pre-build is $210sq/ft, which is expected to go to nearly $310 by completion. That's a 1/4 million profit on each unit. I'm pretty sure the first phase sold out in two days. I can't believe you missed out, Rob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 Ha I'm just going on adrenaline 24/7. I'm doing 2 engineering majors, have a girlfriend, working at a tech startup, playing a sport at school (probably quitting that though not enough time), snowboarding, and try to party a bit (that usually gets left out in favor of snowboarding this time of year though). I sleep like 4-5 hours a night tops and I don't even drink soda much less coffee. So it all kind of comes out rapid fire, plus I was a nerd in middle school typing is faster than speaking for me. It just sucks for my snowboarding, I have 22 full days this year, but I was aiming for 35+ and I only see myself getting 8 more this season. Ha, don't ever feel bad about having lots of energy. Ultimate Frisbee by any chance? Just don't say it's golf... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trackbiker Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 Just don't say it's golf... Most ski area realestate resorts also have golf courses to make them year round resorts. Method had a lot of good points and information on pipe building in his report. I actually learned something! More than I can say about your reports. They sound like a broken record...."Sno is great!!! etc, etc, etc...." Sno Mountain, LLC said in their public meeting that they had no interest in realestate. For some strange reason I thought a Forum ( def.: A public meeting or presentation involving a discussion usually among experts and often including audience participation. ) was place where people could express their opinions and everyone could maybe learn something. Yeah, some people are like 80 yr. men sitting at Dunkin Donuts whining about everything....and some people are like whiny little kids when anyone says anything they interpret as "bad" about their favorite little toy or ski area and bash anyone who doesn't like EVERYTHING about their toy. How many other ski areas have you skied this year by the way? -Been to BB to see their park since Peak took over? (It's getting rave reviews by the way. Opened in Nov! When did Sno's open?) -Ridden the 6-Pack at Blue yet? ( I did today with a friend from NYC who couldn't believe how many runs we got in an hour! Sure beats any of the creaky 25 year old SLOW lifts at Sno! ) -Ridden the TWO HIGH SPEED LIFTS to check out the parks at CB this year to see any improvements they've made? -Have you seen the lodge, hotel, and park at BC? (Sno is going to have add a lot more than a deck to beat that Lodge/Hotel complex!) -Been to Elk to see why the latest Elk thread has rave reviews on their conditions? No?! You haven't?! You just keep comparing Sno to Montage?! And think the competition is standing still? And everything the management is doing at Sno is the absolute best thing any owner's could ever do for a ski area? You sound more like a Sno "groupie" than anyone with any kind of objective opinion! Sno!... If you haven't been to any of the other areas, how could you possibly have an objective opinion to compare them to Sno? How could you possibly compare Sno to anywhere else if you haven't been anywhere else? I've been to all of them except for BB this year. And they all blow Sno away in EVERY area except for weekend snow conditions! And that's only because NO ONE'S at Sno! Sorry, I thought this was a forum where we could express our opinions and observations. Maybe we can just let it degrade into the BC thread where the park rats just keep posting 836 b.s. reply's on the park conditions! Or just change it to the Sno LOVE thread . Or just change the name of the mountain to Camelot Mountain.... "Where it never rains, only snows! The conditions are always the bestest!!! (And every other ski area in PA SUCKS!) The mountain with owner's who have no previous experience running a ski area but are doing EVERYTHING just right! The only mountain in the mid-atlantic region who can maintain a 22' half-pipe in good enough condition for "Olympic Training" while all the other pipes go to hell because of the thaw freeze cycle in this part of the country. Nobody here is "bashing" Sno. Just expressing opinions, comparisons, and personal preferences. From everything I've seen, EVERYONE wants Sno to succeed! Yes, everyone loves their home mountain, and there is mostly good natured "joshing" between the pass holders. GSS writes a report everyday he is at Blue (which is everyday he is not at Jackson Hole or Stowe!) Yes, we know his reports are somewhat "slanted" towards Blue, but he also tells us what he thinks can be improved, and tells us when it sucks. We don't get "Camelot Mountain". Tell us ski, what do you think Sno could do better? Where do you think the money could be better spent? Did you like Switch (the race trail!) being CLOSED because they blew a ton of snow for a 22' half-pipe you will never use? What would you like to see? Even identical twins don't agree on everything! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 Why be an asshole, track? I've been to BB this year and wrote a bunch of TR from my trips to BB last year. All my TR regarding BB last year were positive. I've been a passholder at Elk one season (skied there off and on for three decades) and a passholder at CB for somewhere around 20 years---nothing CB does can fix why I don't ski there; I don't ski there because of the crowds. I've skied Blue more than a hundred times; Shawnee maybe 200. I've skied BC with Jeffy and even Rob. I saw the lodge, hotel, and park---all three things I don't really care about. I wrote a Gannett News Service weekly column on skiing in PA. In one season, I skied at every ski area in Pennsylvania, except, ironically, the one I now am current part owner of (The Hideout Ski Hill). As a father of a USSA racer, we made the circuit around PA, with races at Seven Springs, Blue, Denton, Elk, Sawmill, BB, JF, and a number of others. As an ASRA racer, I had a chance to race at Roundtop, Liberty, Tanglwood, and a bunch of other places. I've also worked at a ski area in Southern Vermont and in the Catskills. So you think I'm not qualified to compare Sno to other PA ski areas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
librider Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 Why be an asshole, track? I've been to BB this year and wrote a bunch of TR from my trips to BB last year. All my TR regarding BB last year were positive. I've been a passholder at Elk one season (skied there off and on for three decades) and a passholder at CB for somewhere around 20 years---nothing CB does can fix why I don't ski there; I don't ski there because of the crowds. I've skied Blue more than a hundred times; Shawnee maybe 200. I've skied BC with Jeffy and even Rob. I saw the lodge, hotel, and park---all three things I don't really care about. I wrote a Gannett News Service weekly column on skiing in PA. In one season, I skied at every ski area in Pennsylvania, except, ironically, the one I now am current part owner of (The Hideout Ski Hill). As a father of a USSA racer, we made the circuit around PA, with races at Seven Springs, Blue, Denton, Elk, Sawmill, BB, JF, and a number of others. As an ASRA racer, I had a chance to race at Roundtop, Liberty, Tanglwood, and a bunch of other places. I've also worked at a ski area in Southern Vermont and in the Catskills. So you think I'm not qualified to compare Sno to other PA ski areas? Im not going to lie.. Thats a pretty badass resume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 Why be an asshole, track? To clarify, I meant why should anyone be an asshole for the sake of being an asshole. It might have sounded like I was calling you one. I wasn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjb269 Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 you guys are all so gay... Look at the name of this forum... Its 22' superpipe!! Thats all i gotta say, PEACE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
method9455 Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 Rock climbing & sailing team. Rock climbing I'm keeping but the travel for the sailing is killing me, when you lose 2 or 3 whole days a week to an event, it is hard to recover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Posted February 22, 2008 Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 Rock climbing I'm keeping Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phillycore Posted February 22, 2008 Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 Im not going to lie.. Thats a pretty badass resume. X2 Ski you rock man... but you know dis already Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Posted February 22, 2008 Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 Ha, I'm just old and have been around long enough to tell boring stories of cutting school to ski CB...in the 70's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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