3/2 pictures

[Brian]

5) We rip on it because it is REDICULOUS. Sure they put up a pipe this weekend and its going to be open for 4 weeks or whatever, but honestly, they claimed "Best Park in PA" for about 2 years now and haven't shown jack shit for it. I don't think you would ever find someone worried that a competition was coming up at Boulder, do they have hard enough features? Mind you I was riding harder features on an open park last Saturday at Boulder than the kids competiting in what is supposedly "One of the biggest competitions on the east coast" at Sno. Oh yea and they where installing a giant concrete staircase at the time, downhill of the 3 biggest jumps PA has ever seen. It is just laughable. And go to Blue, there are 4 jumps in a row that are better than all the jumps Sno has scattered around the mountain. Or go to Mountain Creek, there are more innovative features on one trail than Sno has ever had. Its just laughable, in a makes you cry with frustration sort of way.

I may have missed it.. but I don't see where Sno claimed to have the best park.

I'm new to these boards but all I saw was a bunch of peeps knock a mountain they don't ski at.

 

I had to go to the other mountain's forums to see if there's anything like what we've had to sift through there.. there isn't. It's just one right after another coming to Sno Mountain's forum just to knock it. It got old.. fast.

 

It got to the point where the Sno fans couldn't even comment on something exciting, like getting the 22' pipe-cutter w/o a bunch of opinionated goofs rip the mountain for that.

 

If you want to say things like "Sno could improve their hits by adding this, or removing that" .. or "Sno's rails are set up in the wrong spots... they should move them over here"..... That'd be one thing.

 

Instead all we got were posts like, "22' pipe cutter?? they'll probably fck the cut up!", "Sno's jumps suck! Don't come to Sno!" and garbage like that. YOU may be trying to help the mountian out by giving decent advice or opinions.. but there's a lot of tards out there that are just being douches.

[librider]

It got to the point where the Sno fans couldn't even comment on something exciting, like getting the 22' pipe-cutter w/o a bunch of opinionated goofs rip the mountain for that.

 

If you want to say things like "Sno could improve their hits by adding this, or removing that" .. or "Sno's rails are set up in the wrong spots... they should move them over here"..... That'd be one thing.

 

Instead all we got were posts like, "22' pipe cutter?? they'll probably fck the cut up!", "Sno's jumps suck! Don't come to Sno!" and garbage like that. YOU may be trying to help the mountian out by giving decent advice or opinions.. but there's a lot of tards out there that are just being douches.

 

Very very well said.

[Schif]

This whole situation is really ridiculous. I'll admit I was skeptical about the whole pipe thing BUT SNO DID IT. That right there should be enough for all of you guys. If you don't like a mountain don't ride it. I"m really sick and tired of people bashing the hell out of a mountain for no good reason. We even had some GREAT guys from Sno on here as great reps and you assholes scared them away. I really hope we can get them back because they really were great resources. Santa even started a thread or 2 to ask for direct input on the parks.

 

The only thing you have to rip on Sno for now is their jumps. They concentrated on a 22 foot pipe and pulled it off. Its definitely the best pipe in the area. TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS. How about instead of ripping on a mountain for bad jumps you take the opportunity to ride more pipe on a good pipe for once.

 

Are we all forgetting about the fact that they have built a HUGE SBX course? As far as I know the only other one in PA is lower sidewinder which is really only a few small S-turns. TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS.

 

And what about the rails and boxes? I think Sno has a great set of rails and boxes for all ability levels scattered throughout their TWO parks. TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS

 

One of the biggest concerns for the skiers/riders around here is park safety. They've been calling for park passes for years. Sno finally has them. TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS

 

And I think we're all forgetting about some of the best freeride trails in the damn state. Cannonball, Smoke, Boomer, White freakin' Lightning. TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THESE.

 

When I go home for spring break next week I"m going to completely tear Sno up. From the parks, to the steeps, to the trees (if this rain doesn't kill them) and everything in between. We have a very short window of time each year to do the sport we love. Stop wasting your time bashing it and go enjoy it.

 

Finally I just want to say one thing. PASR is a phenomenal place. You dosh's are slowly ruining that. This is a community that I love being a part of. I've been hanging around for quite some time and only recently have I been slightly disappointed. The main thing about PASR is that its really a Community. Except for all the new trolls, everyone here has a face. (Not that I"ve met them all, but I'd like to change that). When you rip on Ski, you rip on on of the best skiers I've ever been on a trail with. Sure Doug is a goofball, but when he turned on the jets on Challenge, I felt like a Jersey Jeans guy compared to him.

 

PLEASE FOR THE SAKE OF PASR ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. I know I'm not on staff but maybe some bans are in order....

[Brian]

We even had some GREAT guys from Sno on here as great reps and you assholes scared them away. I really hope we can get them back because they really were great resources. Santa even started a thread or 2 to ask for direct input on the parks.

I 2nd this.

Santa needs to come back.

[poconoceancity]

I'm sure everything is better in Scranton compared to Lake Harmony. (hotels. restaurants, bars, nightlife, movie theaters, etc, etc)

 

IMO you are way off the mark on this. Lake Harmony has way more of a Pocono Mountain feel to it. The Bars and restaurants are packed on the weekends with people who spent the day on the Mountain. More than half of the cars in any of the lots have ski racks on them. Most of the homes between BB and JF are filled on the weekends with people who are up there to ski. Happy hour at The Rock Bar, Nicks, Shennanigans, and the Mountains Edge are filled with people still in their gear. Breakfast at the Terra Cottage and Piggy's is filled with people on their way to the slopes. When I first brought people to my houses in Split Rock and Towamensing Trails who had previously stayed near CB or Shawnee, they couldn't believe the difference in the off mountain surrounding area. In 2001 and 2002 I had a season pass at CB. In 2002 my family sold the house in Split Rock, but I still rented a place near Lake Harmony even thought it was a 30 minute drive to CB where I continued to get a season pass, because the off mountain scene is so much better in Lake Harmony. The crowd is from mid 20 professionals to mid 30-50 year old families. When I'm near CB getting gas or go to the outlets I feel like I am in North Jersey, which is fucking disgusting. When I'm near Sno or Elk I feel like there is more of a Scranton feel then a skiing mountain vibe going on.

[fleaguy]

You are wrong on several counts

 

1) I couldn't give a shit what my post count is, its more an indication at my own failings to get work done that I have this many posts

 

2) Its not about how good or bad the park IS. We're not hating on the park but the people/companies who CLAIM for it, you don't see me ripping on Shawnee? Or Elk? Or Hidden Valley? Or Belleayre? Or Hunter? Or Windham? Yet I know every single one of those mountains have worse parks than Sno. In fact Sno might beat Camelback and I don't berate Camelback that much (it is debatable, but whatever). The point is that none of those mountains CLAIMED to have a great park and what not, Camelback did that last year and we jumped on them then too.

 

3) Why do we care if they are claiming a good park? Because if they don't have criticism they won't improve. If we all sit here and say wow great job Sno this is perfect, will they do anything better next year? Where is the incentive? This is why you get grades in school, if they just gave everyone a pat on the back do you think kids would work harder? Plus we don't other people to waste their time & money at one mountain when they would be better off at another. All you have on here is creditability, if you burn that you have nothing.

 

4) What is so wrong with it? Do you really thing that the park is that good? Sure they put in a good effort and a lot of money but what are we going to hurt Sno's feelings? Come on get real its a corporation, not the new kid in school. We are hardly bullies to point the flaws in a place that is trying to get us to spend $70 a day to come visit. there are two ways Sno can take our criticism. They can scoff us (as Boulder did to me last year for my JibLab rant) and ignore it, or they can learn from it. Camelback obviously doesn't learn much from us, Bear Creek on the other hand definitely does. Ride Camelback and ride Bear Creek in the park and see who has the right strategy.

 

5) We rip on it because it is REDICULOUS. Sure they put up a pipe this weekend and its going to be open for 4 weeks or whatever, but honestly, they claimed "Best Park in PA" for about 2 years now and haven't shown jack shit for it. I don't think you would ever find someone worried that a competition was coming up at Boulder, do they have hard enough features? Mind you I was riding harder features on an open park last Saturday at Boulder than the kids competiting in what is supposedly "One of the biggest competitions on the east coast" at Sno. Oh yea and they where installing a giant concrete staircase at the time, downhill of the 3 biggest jumps PA has ever seen. It is just laughable. And go to Blue, there are 4 jumps in a row that are better than all the jumps Sno has scattered around the mountain. Or go to Mountain Creek, there are more innovative features on one trail than Sno has ever had. Its just laughable, in a makes you cry with frustration sort of way.

 

method...I believe I need to reply to your rant.

 

#1. sorry about your failings to get any work done. I can't give guidence to you there!

 

#2. yes, you ARE saying the park is bad, but now you're saying it's the advertisent agencies you despise for false advertising. Do you detest Polmolive for net giving you the bightest smile. Ford for not giving you the MPG they advertised on the car? etc...etc. Now in NO way am I defending Sno. I just think you're being too sensitive to their advertising agency. Like I said earlier, Sno is behind the curve in building parks. I also said BB,BC,Elk have GREAT parks. I DIDN'T say Sno had a great park! I DID say it was great for the sport that they went out on a limb to host the compititions, spend the money for the Zaugg (which many doubters said they'd believe it when they see it!...why would anyone say that? I won't mention names). Blow the snow they have. Spent the time with the snow cats kneeding and pushing the snow into the pipe.I did say I thought they're doing good for only being in the bussiness for two years. I remember (many years ago)when BB's terrain park was a telephone pole and a 55 gallon drum! It takes time to develope the skills to put together a decent park and crew. Would I stay away from the mountain if I were you? yes. It may be some time before it meets your standards. However, even you would have to agree (and you have)it's better than it was, and better than some.

 

#3. Why do we care if they claim it's a good park? Well, it is good...only good, not great. Would I like to see it meet your expectations? Yes, and everyone else's...including mine. But instead of bashing, I said "give input and guidence".

 

now...#4....

a. As you said.."do you really think the park is that good"? NO...I never said the park was that good re-read my post. I did however give a cheer for the money, time and effort they put into the COMPITITIONS

b. "come on, are we going to hurt their feelings...they're a corporation". Well, they ARE a corporation...but moreover they're INVESTORS. They want to do well for the riders, thereby making money. The good thing for us is...they realize improvements need to be made and they have deep pockets to finish the job.

c. "trying to get us to spend $70 a day to visit" uhmm you're off by 40%...weekend day tickets were $50

d. "they can scoff at us like BB did and ignore us". Pesonally, I don't think they care either way if you come or not! If you were an X-GAMES competitor, I'm sure they would listen...and probably pay you tons of money also. They seem to have a gameplan in place. I would think that a busload of riders/skiers would be more important to their bottom line than your opinion....no matter how much you rant and rave

e. "we rip on it because it's rediculous...sure they put up a22' pipe and it's going to be open for 4 weeks!" AHHHHM...so...that's a bad thing?? (You're beginning to lose credibility!)

f. "they claim to be the best park in Pa. for two years now, and they haven't shown jack-shit for it" OH BOY! where do I start? so...sue the ad agency if it doesn't meet your expectations. I am not saying it is the best in Pa...I am saying, in two years they did a great job. Remember this is from scratch...three years ago they had nothing. Do I think they care about your hatred for their ad agency...NAW

g. "one of the biggest compititions on the east coast"...well guess what? that line wasn't Sno's line...that was the ORGANIZATION'S LINE...hate THEM!

h. "they were installing a giant concrete staircase"....WHAT?? I don't think so! where did you hear that/ read that?

 

in conclusion...let me find the ad agency number and you can give them your opinion!

 

R E S P E C T

[JordanA]

#2. yes, you ARE saying the park is bad, but now you're saying it's the advertisent agencies you despise for false advertising. Do you detest Polmolive for net giving you the bightest smile. Ford for not giving you the MPG they advertised on the car? etc...etc. Now in NO way am I defending Sno. I just think you're being too sensitive to their advertising agency. Like I said earlier, Sno is behind the curve in building parks. I also said BB,BC,Elk have GREAT parks. I DIDN'T say Sno had a great park! I DID say it was great for the sport that they went out on a limb to host the compititions, spend the money for the Zaugg (which many doubters said they'd believe it when they see it!...why would anyone say that? I won't mention names). Blow the snow they have. Spent the time with the snow cats kneeding and pushing the snow into the pipe.I did say I thought they're doing good for only being in the bussiness for two years. I remember (many years ago)when BB's terrain park was a telephone pole and a 55 gallon drum! It takes time to develope the skills to put together a decent park and crew. Would I stay away from the mountain if I were you? yes. It may be some time before it meets your standards. However, even you would have to agree (and you have)it's better than it was, and better than some.

 

#3. Why do we care if they claim it's a good park? Well, it is good...only good, not great. Would I like to see it meet your expectations? Yes, and everyone else's...including mine. But instead of bashing, I said "give input and guidence".

 

now...#4....

a. As you said.."do you really think the park is that good"? NO...I never said the park was that good re-read my post. I did however give a cheer for the money, time and effort they put into the COMPITITIONS

b. "come on, are we going to hurt their feelings...they're a corporation". Well, they ARE a corporation...but moreover they're INVESTORS. They want to do well for the riders, thereby making money. The good thing for us is...they realize improvements need to be made and they have deep pockets to finish the job.

c. "trying to get us to spend $70 a day to visit" uhmm you're off by 40%...weekend day tickets were $50

d. "they can scoff at us like BB did and ignore us". Pesonally, I don't think they care either way if you come or not! If you were an X-GAMES competitor, I'm sure they would listen...and probably pay you tons of money also. They seem to have a gameplan in place. I would think that a busload of riders/skiers would be more important to their bottom line than your opinion....no matter how much you rant and rave

e. "we rip on it because it's rediculous...sure they put up a22' pipe and it's going to be open for 4 weeks!" AHHHHM...so...that's a bad thing?? (You're beginning to lose credibility!)

f. "they claim to be the best park in Pa. for two years now, and they haven't shown jack-shit for it" OH BOY! where do I start? so...sue the ad agency if it doesn't meet your expectations. I am not saying it is the best in Pa...I am saying, in two years they did a great job. Remember this is from scratch...three years ago they had nothing. Do I think they care about your hatred for their ad agency...NAW

g. "one of the biggest compititions on the east coast"...well guess what? that line wasn't Sno's line...that was the ORGANIZATION'S LINE...hate THEM!

h. "they were installing a giant concrete staircase"....WHAT?? I don't think so! where did you hear that/ read that?

 

in conclusion...let me find the ad agency number and you can give them your opinion!

 

R E S P E C T

 

1. When you're a kid who spends all of your hard earned money on a 400$ season pass because Sno says they are going to really step up it is a huge disappointment (it has happened each year) Which is why i will most likely be going to boulder next year because of constant let downs.

 

2. Whenever some knowledgeable person gives input on the park, some 50 year old racers team up and start a flamewar. And you guys have never listened to us before so why bother now?

 

3.A) Learn how to spell competitions

B)So how are we going to hurt their feelings?

D)This goes to your #2, Why bother giving advice when you just said they will never listen to singled out people?

E)It is a bad thing because it was a waste of money, unless they use the snow to stay open longer and have a May Day railjam (oh what do you know some input/advice) =)

F)They didn't start from jackshit, that was the point in having planet. Planet was supposed to be good at making unbelievable parks, meaning they should have had one from the get go.

G)Shouldn't sno have the say in what comps they want?

H) Yea they put in a massive staircase for the Redbull One Hit Wonder at the plaza, it looked real sick.

[method9455]

method...I believe I need to reply to your rant.

 

#1. sorry about your failings to get any work done. I can't give guidence to you there!

 

#2. yes, you ARE saying the park is bad, but now you're saying it's the advertisent agencies you despise for false advertising. Do you detest Polmolive for net giving you the bightest smile. Ford for not giving you the MPG they advertised on the car? etc...etc. Now in NO way am I defending Sno. I just think you're being too sensitive to their advertising agency. Like I said earlier, Sno is behind the curve in building parks. I also said BB,BC,Elk have GREAT parks. I DIDN'T say Sno had a great park! I DID say it was great for the sport that they went out on a limb to host the compititions, spend the money for the Zaugg (which many doubters said they'd believe it when they see it!...why would anyone say that? I won't mention names). Blow the snow they have. Spent the time with the snow cats kneeding and pushing the snow into the pipe.I did say I thought they're doing good for only being in the bussiness for two years. I remember (many years ago)when BB's terrain park was a telephone pole and a 55 gallon drum! It takes time to develope the skills to put together a decent park and crew. Would I stay away from the mountain if I were you? yes. It may be some time before it meets your standards. However, even you would have to agree (and you have)it's better than it was, and better than some.

 

#3. Why do we care if they claim it's a good park? Well, it is good...only good, not great. Would I like to see it meet your expectations? Yes, and everyone else's...including mine. But instead of bashing, I said "give input and guidence".

 

now...#4....

a. As you said.."do you really think the park is that good"? NO...I never said the park was that good re-read my post. I did however give a cheer for the money, time and effort they put into the COMPITITIONS

b. "come on, are we going to hurt their feelings...they're a corporation". Well, they ARE a corporation...but moreover they're INVESTORS. They want to do well for the riders, thereby making money. The good thing for us is...they realize improvements need to be made and they have deep pockets to finish the job.

c. "trying to get us to spend $70 a day to visit" uhmm you're off by 40%...weekend day tickets were $50

d. "they can scoff at us like BB did and ignore us". Pesonally, I don't think they care either way if you come or not! If you were an X-GAMES competitor, I'm sure they would listen...and probably pay you tons of money also. They seem to have a gameplan in place. I would think that a busload of riders/skiers would be more important to their bottom line than your opinion....no matter how much you rant and rave

e. "we rip on it because it's rediculous...sure they put up a22' pipe and it's going to be open for 4 weeks!" AHHHHM...so...that's a bad thing?? (You're beginning to lose credibility!)

f. "they claim to be the best park in Pa. for two years now, and they haven't shown jack-shit for it" OH BOY! where do I start? so...sue the ad agency if it doesn't meet your expectations. I am not saying it is the best in Pa...I am saying, in two years they did a great job. Remember this is from scratch...three years ago they had nothing. Do I think they care about your hatred for their ad agency...NAW

g. "one of the biggest compititions on the east coast"...well guess what? that line wasn't Sno's line...that was the ORGANIZATION'S LINE...hate THEM!

h. "they were installing a giant concrete staircase"....WHAT?? I don't think so! where did you hear that/ read that?

 

in conclusion...let me find the ad agency number and you can give them your opinion!

 

-Flea a lot of that stuff is referenced back to well before you joined (January 8th, 2008? Lets not talk about creditability, my opinions are rooted in actions of Sno over the last 2 years, yours are in what? 8 weeks?, and you said Elk has a great park? What?)

 

-You can't compare Palmolive ads and Ford MPG numbers (which if you want to get technical are NOT Fords numbers, but the government EPA testing numbers which the government fucks up the testing for i.e. excluding idling at red lights from MPG estimates lowering the Prius's MPG advantage, but now I'm getting technical) to cold hard facts. Here is what they said before the season:

Breaking News: Great Things at Sn

[Ski]

CB was great today.

[fleaguy]

-Flea a lot of that stuff is referenced back to well before you joined (January 8th, 2008? Lets not talk about creditability, my opinions are rooted in actions of Sno over the last 2 years, yours are in what? 8 weeks?

yes a member for 8 weeks...skiing for 26 years

 

 

More rails than any other park in the area? More jumps? Olympic training ground. Sorry but when I hear the word Olympic, I usually think at least best in PA.

yes...ad agency B.S. as a matter of fact, I don't think they can lagally say that!

 

And sure it takes time to develop skills for the park crew, which is why I'm all for letting people develop. Except Sno IS NOT developing a park crew, they hired a guy (Ryan Neptune) who shows up to build a pipe and the park for events, and then disappears for other gigs. NO SHIT they got a great pipe right now How about the next time? How is that playing out at Sno?

only time will tell. If it doesn't D.C. (primary investor) should start recruiting help from other mountains. Lord knows they have the money to do so!

 

Everyone said the 13 foot pipe sucked. Everyone says the park sucks, but its up to when Ryan Neptune and his merry band of traveling park crew show up to fix it. How does that compare to the guys at Boulder or Bear or Blue or Mountain Creek who are there day in and day out making it good? They're never going to improve if they AREN'T DOING IT. Maintaining is a lot different than designing last time I checked.

they do have a park crew. I've seen them with their yellow coats that say "park crew"! are they any good? are they learning? do they have any leadership/manager with know-how? time will tell.

 

 

I don't think you can say I haven't given more input and guidance than bashing Search my name in the Sno forum, how many posts are talking about pipe design and grooming? How many posts about setuping up a rail right? And how shaping a jump right?

I may P.M. you with the owners name/address. perhaps he has no idea what's happening/not happening in his park.

 

Look at the big thread in the Bear Creek forum, it is as viscious as all of Sno's stuff, but Bear Creek mark listens to us.

again, will a name and address help? he probably never hear of PASR

 

Yea, I do think a 22' pipe for 4 weeks open is a bad thing. How much time, money, snow, labor was wasted on that thing? a pipe thats open for 4 weeks probably costs more than all of JFBB's 6 parks for the whole season. I'll take JFBB being open from Nov to May with a park the whole time that is better than anything Sno has put up all year over a decent pipe for 4 weeks.

I think they're trying to do too much at one time

 

Can you ride a 22' pipe?

no, but it's nice to have one!

 

You want to get people to Sno?

ahh, honestly...no

 

Build a good park first.

who?me? I don't think so!

 

Bullshit they're starting from scratch.

well...two years

 

There is a reason Ryan Neptune's name is in the press release, the guy has built more pipes and parks than anyone else in all of PA. So why does the park not work out? Because they are not BUILDING A TEAM, they are all flash and no substance. You have a guy come in and throw up good stuff and make good pictures, then it dwindles to crap, and you have a bunch of teenagers (no offense to the park guys on here, you guys do maintain well, but the fact is teenagers grow up, go to college, and are no longer on park crew maintaining it.

You need guys who are there day in day out, who are invested in the park, for it to work out. You look and there is no serious park in the country that doesn't have its own park staff. I don't understand why this is, but Sno needs to get some guys in house. [/b] There is not a lack of talent, it is a lack of foresight on Sno's part.

is it the "park managers" duty to train and understand the flow? Write to the owner, who I believe is unaware of your concerns

 

As for the line, it was said by several people here as well. Hell I said it, that is one of the most serious comps on the east coast, I'm all for comps but if you are going to build something for the comp and never duplicate it for the public what good is that?

yea but...that was only last week. wait and see what happens...inspite of the rain!

 

As for the concrete ledge on the staircase I didn't hear it anywhere I saw it with my eyes,

I missunderstood...you said concrete staircase...not concrete "ledge" on the staircase!!

 

R E S P E C T

[dy-lan]

method, you hit the nail right on the head.

[Ski]

Method, if I can chime in on a few of your points (eh, respectfully), but first:

 

dy-lan, you're a fucking tool.

 

Anyway,

 

"Because if they don't have criticism they won't improve."----Method, 99% of the so-called criticism regarding Sno is lost because it's filled with jealousy and hate by people who don't ski/ride Sno ever. Sno's parks will improve with the current commitment they have given to it. There's no argument on this. Just look at the park pre and post sale. Nobody wants to listen to NS bitches scream and yell. Sno management is relying on input from riders/skiers, not just Neptune. This MB is inconsequential to the park's improvement. Ever wonder why every mountain's official MB's are all gone? It's due to the haters and flamers, like the one's on here. Their incentive is MONEY. It's TICKET SALES. Like every free market business in America. Their incentive is NOT to follow the lead of flamers. BC polls kids and half say one thing and the other half says to do the opposite.

 

"We rip on it because it is RIDICULOUS."----Be honest. Most posts have ripped Sno because they are following the leader. They haven't skied/ridden Sno. If you've been riding Sno regularly and rip on it, it's one thing...but your long rants are lost in the "Sno is gay" milieu. Your posts are intelligent and well written, but people like JordanA and dy-lan make them worthless. That's a shame.

 

"Except Sno IS NOT developing a park crew"---Yes they are. And they are led by a local, very smart guy. Building a park isn't rocket science. It's common sense. It's very basic math. But you already know that, I'm sure.

 

"NO SHIT they got a great pipe right now, that is like looking at little league game after Barry Bonds just pinch hit for you and saying our team is great. How about the next time?"---You are welcome to assume that, but you might be very wrong. The park director oversaw every phase of the construction. If you knew him, you'd have a little more faith in his talents. I built an addition to my home last year. It was MUCH more complex than a superpipe. I had help from my father-in-law, but am confident I could do another addition on my own. Being so negative with no knowledge of the local people involved hurts your cred, IMO. I'm not trying to offend you, but I read great information littered with things that sound like NS cheap shots.

 

"So far no one I believe has been giving me a positive report on the place."---People say the Poconos suck, Method. Go join TGR's MB and tell them where you ride. Are all those kids sitting at their computers in Miami and New York City correct?

 

"Yea, I do think a 22' pipe for 4 weeks open is a bad thing. How much time, money, snow, labor was wasted on that thing?"---C'mon, Method, a ski area doesn't work on a one month plan. Look at a five year plan and it was a smart move. Did they waste your money? Five weeks this year, then eight weeks next year. At what point will you be satisfied? You are writing them off and it just comes off as hating. Most companies work this way. Why do you think Beaver Creek hosts a World Cup downhill? They lose money on the race, since the FIS requires them to give free room and board to all athletes and all support staff. Is Beaver Creek wrong to do it?

 

"You need guys who are there day in day out, who are invested in the park, for it to work out."---Actually, you need a leader who is there day in and day out, year after year. Otherwise, NO BUSINESS IN AMERICA WOULD EVER LAST. I won't bore you with details, but the ideal employee/lowly worker will be at his/her prime during their third and fourth years. After four, apathy sets in. I took a few business classes...hated them, but read most of what I was supposed to.

 

"I'm all for comps but if you are going to build something for the comp and never duplicate it for the public what good is that?"---Well, it happens in every other sport. Ski racing is a great example. But you are jumping to a conclusion. A negative conclusion. You have no idea what internal meetings have decided. What has been shown is a willingness to make a huge effort for comps. To say they are just saying 'screw the public, we'll just level it all', is disingenuous. There's a good possibility they are using this all as a learning experience to provide a great park/pipe. I mean, you have to admit it's possible, right?

 

 

Method, I hope you take this post with a grain of salt and I hope you're not offended. Who knows, I might be totally wrong and you might be totally right. But it sure seems to me that Sno's management has proven it's commitment to making progressive changes. Is there a point in which you'd consider sitting back and seeing what happens? That's pretty much my stance...btw, did you know that after installing 193 guns last year, they bought 40 more? This year alone, they quietly added the equivalent of 58% of Elk's entire snowmaking output. And all they get is hate. Crazy.

 

Lastly, thanks for speaking up. I have learned quite a bit from you. I disagree with some things, but I don't dispute your passion.

[Ski]

Take this to the Boulder forum..

 

It's tough enough to put together a PASR day..a PASR ski house at Big Boulder doesn't make much sense since most people live in daytrip range of BB and you're still some random dude from the internet.

Doesn't PASR have a beach house in Delaware?

[poconoceancity]

Doesn't PASR have a beach house in Delaware?

Yea, But unfortunately were to old.

[Ski]

[method9455]

Ski - no offense taken.

 

I can't be responsible for the idiocy of others who share my opinion, the fact that the park is full of 12 year olds with the IQ of 8 year olds means this board will get littered with them too, a lot of hits to the head probably doesn't help matters. I'm a nerd who rips on a snowboard, and I do a bit of park too. That makes me a minority of a minority of a minority, my opinion IS meaningless to Sno in terms of ticket sales. But on the other hand I think I come with some experiance they should hear, maybe not listen to but just get it out in the open. That fact that it is lost in a cacophony of "Sno iS GAYZORS" is out of my control.

 

I'm sure the Sno guys watched them build the park every step of the way, and cut the pipe every step of the way, but so did the Mountain Creek guys and they blew it as soon as they started having to do it. It is not a knowledge thing, it is a motor skills thing. Driving a pipe cutter is hard, a lot harder than it looks. Basically you a driving a mac truck for 500 feet trying to avoid any variance in it, oh and its skid steer, oh and the snow is slipping. It just takes practice. Thats why you bring in a guy who knows what hes doing for competitions, thats why it never comes out right the first time, thats why Mount Snow tore theirs down this year mid season and did it again even with a guy who has building them for 10 years including the XGames. No it is not rocket science, but its not easy either. I know how hard it is and I'm impressed Sno pulled it off, like I said I hope they do it better in the future too. The amount of snow they made this year would make a 500-600 foot long pipe if it had dirt underneith. I'm not ripping on the local guys for being incompetent, that is just the way it is. I could tell you how to build a pipe until I'm blue in the face, but put me in a cat and I'm going to suck at it. There is a reason I just design things.

 

But I still have 2 main problems with the place. 1) Their designer is a consultant. No matter how you slice it, they outsourced it to Ryan Neptune. Every engineering project I've been on, as soon as you outsource something when shit hits the fan its a long wait to get it fixed. No matter what. You can see it with Sno. If the guys are watching so intently why did the 13' pipe suck for so long? Why was the park a disaster until this event? 2) If they had built a great park this year instead of the pipe, I would have gone. I got to Blue, Camelback, Jack Frost, Big Boulder, Shawnee, Mountain Creek, Hidden Valley, and I'll get Bear this weekend or next this year, but I may or may not get to Sno depending on when they close. I had to wait until the end of the season for a visit because there was no reason to go. It would have been better to invest that money in a park this year and go for the pipe next year, look at the two "Best" parks in my view, Boulder & Mountain Creek - neither has a pipe. Then others count Blue as the best park, it has a 13' pipe. If they did a park as good as Boulder with a 13' pipe done as well as Camelback they would have been the best park in PA. Obviously they can crank out the snow for that park, they just chose to work on the wrong thing in my opinion. In my book, its a bad decision.

 

I don't think anyone can say its a bad thing Sno got bought out, and it is going up, but that doesn't mean there isn't a lot of room for improvement. I would put it 5th in park around here behind MC, JFBB, Blue, Bear (In that order) even with the Superpipe, somehow I don't think thats what they where aiming for. In terms of pipe they may be #1, but I'm not convinced a 22' pipe done ok is better than a 13' pipe done perfectly nor a 18' pipe done perfectly. I know for sure an 18' pipe done ok is worse than a 13' pipe done perfectly.

 

That said, I'm trying to get up there to hit the pipe, if they stay open they will get my money, and again in the future when they get the pipe open next year. I hope they keep working at it, it remains to be seen if the Mountain Creek one is toast or not and although Blue & Camelback had great pipes, they are not superpipes. I just think they can't neglect the park until March if they want to seriously claim to be an "olympic training ground" or "the most jibs in the region".

[Glenn]

You lost me as soon as you called yourself a ripper and not because I think you don't rip.

Edited March 5, 2008 by Glenn

[nfgdrummer21]

dy-lan, you're a fucking tool.

 

Tough guy.

[Ski]

Tough guy.

You like the beach, right?

[Sno Mountain Skier]

If I was 14 and took my shirt off I could spend the entire summer there..

I dislike Rob to, but thats taking it too far.

[method9455]

I dislike Rob to, but thats taking it too far.

 

Yea say what you want about the guy but I still say he is tame compared to the soccer/baseball/football/basketball moms & dads out there.

[Ski]

Yea say what you want about the guy but I still say he is tame compared to the soccer/baseball/football/basketball moms & dads out there.

Tamer? Yes, absolutely. Better? Well, that's not really for us to judge

 

And I'm sure Doug was just kidding.

[Papasteeze]

I only have 2 reasons for posting in the Sno forum related to parks. Notice that I post only about parks in the SNO forum.

 

1. (First and foremost) I want another hill to compete with Boulder. I was hoping that the 2 hills would try and one up each other throughout the season. The end result would have been that the parks at Boulder and SNO would each be better than they are right now. There is no reason we can't have a park here of Western Quality. MY posts are born out of disappointment. They also serve to gather the masses and make some noise that might be heard.

 

2. (Secondly and reason for most of my antagonism) Salomon Jib Academy. This is an unusual Pro event in freeskiing competitions that needs (obviously) a pro park. IMO it is also one of the few competitions, that manages to pull off what park skiing is supposed to be about and that is having fun! The key component is that there also be a park of pro caliber for the XGAMES athletes and other pros that are coming to throw down and for the kids to get themselves noticed.

 

The comment about not visiting and commenting is bunk. I do not have to visit a park in order to comment nor do many others. Some of the best riders out of SNO are complaining about being misled and how crappy the park is. CLAIM..... I have an average of 75 park days a year at over 20 different resorts for the last 4 years. Combine that with 3 years of daily detailed study along with discussion with park managers, crew, staff. etc etc.. I am more than qualified to post about anything park.

 

I might add also. I look for comments and conditions at parks as an indication before we visit so that our days are not wasted with mediocre terrain. The days before competition season are numbered and precious. SNO's hype is similar to what I kept hearing at CB over the last 2 seasons. They never delivered what they were promising. I remember one item specifically, about their "competition ready" pipe. It was crappy all year, landings flat, poor quality jibs.... props for the park pass system to a park not worthy of having it. Won't be back there as a pass holder.

 

One point that seems to be missing. I am 100% positive that the pipe would not have been built had SNO not contracted with the Revolution Tour. Opening a pipe at this late in the season is a joke because the majority who would benefit from it are deep in to comp season now and have other plans.

 

I believe the Jib Academy is a perk of SNO buying and subsequently renting Salomon Skis. There is no incentive for SNO to deliver a quality park for that event. What a shame, because the people that will be there are leaders in the industry. Had they built a park resembling BB, then they would have secured new sales of tickets for next season by the "stoke" created.

 

I am fairly certain that the converse will happen. I know I am personally embarrassed to have told 3 of the attending pros to not worry about what they heard about SNO back in the beginning of February. "I am sure they will pull it together before the event because the Revolution Tour is the week before" 1 small jump is a slap in the face to the pros, Salomon and the kids that will be there.

 

I predict that SNO will drop the hype about parks next year and just focus on ticket sales, they won't use Neptune, they will send the Zaugg back, they will promote Nick to park manager. It certainly would make sense if that is what they did. After 2 years they certainly have had time to build a reputation park wise. Lets see if reverse psychology makes a difference.

 

BTW Someone was offering DC's contact info. Give it to me, I'll send a note and a reference along with contact information on an outfit that can, will and does parks on site. Guaranteed.

Edited March 5, 2008 by Papasteeze

[Ski]

You're still posting about this, Rob? Everyone already knows you think you know everything and can judge the quality of everything just by intuition. Let's see some cracked ribs footage from Hunter instead!

[method9455]

You're still posting about this, Rob? Everyone already knows you think you know everything and can judge the quality of everything just by intuition. Let's see some cracked ribs footage from Hunter instead!

 

Ski what exactly can you judge the park by then?