Conditions: really f*ing crowded

[Ski]

I take it you are talking about sidewinder at blue, and if you are the answer is no. First off its a terrain park. Second its MUCH steeper than nile. Its cuts back and forth a couple of times, but not true switchbacks like nile. Also it is unlike nile in that it has nothing on the sides, with the exception of some hips provided by snowmobile access trails.

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Yeah, now that I look at a Blue map, I guess it was Burma. But I didn't mean exactly like it, just a place that's only fun if you ski it as fast as possible and get in trouble for doing it.

[Ski]

I don't think he was banned from the mountain?  He was at least from the message board  DaveK would definatly NOT want to see Ski999 there, he'd have a cow.  Well, he'd have his second cow.

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DaveK wrote me that I would not be welcome at Camelback if I ever posted another negative comments. That was 8,226 negative comments ago. Plus, there were all those gross pics from the Yahoo Club that I made about him and CB...and I deflated his car tires...and I stiffed his mom at the message parlor.

 

But I was a paying customer.

[Ski]

Actually, the steepest trail in PA is at Denton -- Avalanche at 66 degrees.

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That was an amazingly steep trail. It took out some great skiers. White Lightning is 1800 feet long, so I'm guessing the headwall is about 1100 feet. The top of Avalanche comes to a point and it was narrow down to where is started to flatten out. Sort of like a witch's hat. From memory, I don't recall the Avalanche headwall to be much more than football field long---300 feet, or so? If there's snow built up on the left side of Asp, I'd equate that slalom run to be like a race down Asp.

 

My basis for judging steepness is how hard it is to come to a stop after I fall. I'll tell you, though, it would be an awesome Chinese downhill to start from the top of the lift, down White Lightning, with the finish being the SLOW sign. We'd get to see an airlift if they could land a chopper down there.

[skimom]

66 must be the grade, not the slope. There is no 66 degree slope, at least around here.

[skifreak]

Where exactly is Denton is it in like the middle of the state?

[AtomicSkier]

Where exactly is Denton is it in like the middle of the state?

 

sounds like it's pretty far north...off of route 6, which runs parrelel to the NY border...VERY nice road to drive a bmw on, love it. but i've never seen denton.

[Ski]

About 3 hrs. west of Montage, if I remember correctly. The best thing about the place is the ski in/out cabins you can rent for only $100/night. And it's one of the few courses you can just stand at the bottom and see every gate, since it's steep and ends right where they set up barbeque grills and kegs.

[Margaritaville Skier]

and ends right where they set up barbeque grills and kegs.

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Sounds like my kind of run!!

[sibhusky]

66 must be the grade, not the slope.  There is no 66 degree slope, at least around here.

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It's steeper than 45 degrees. Now I don't know "grade" from "slope", but I do know I stayed off the thing.

[AtomicSkier]

It's steeper than 45 degrees.  Now I don't know "grade" from "slope", but I do know I stayed off the thing.

 

in warren millers "journey" they show this trail at chamonix, and it was 50 degrees, and the guy was going 2mph down it, turning, stopping, turning, stopping, cause it was so steap. 66 degrees can't be right.

[skidude]

Unless the snow is perfect, anything over about a 45-50 degree slope is pretty hard to get down...Even for the people in the movies

[sibhusky]

Slope angle plays a large part in the difficulty of a ski route.  An advanced slope will often exceed 40 degrees.  If a slope is over 45 degrees, it is usually difficult to stop a fall.  A fall on a slope over 50 degrees could result in your demise.  The first time I looked down a long 55 degree slope, my brain had trouble forcing my skis over the edge.  Few ski areas in North America have any runs that exceed 55 degrees.  The new, small Silverton (Colorado) Mountain ski area has some of North America's steepest ski area terrain - with maximum angles of 55 degrees.  Learn to ski steep runs at the ski area before heading to a steep backcountry route.  It's vital to master the "jump-turn" technique.  The jump-turn is useful on steep, narrow routes where carving is difficult.  Expect to see ski tracks on terrain that you consider unsuitable for anyone with a brain.  Another person's idea of advanced or extreme may differ from your own.

 

Above from some website about skiing. So, it doesn't mean 60-some degrees is impossible.

 

I would imagine that the trail overall is not 66 degrees, but that some portion of it may be.

[Ski]

It is, btw, Ski Denton's official claim, not Sib's:

 

From their website at http://www.skidenton.com :

 

Avalanche

Expert

Steepest in the East! At 66 degrees, you can't find a more exciting run. Don't even think about it if you don't fit into the criteria warning sign at the top.

[skimom]

They may say it, but I don't believe it. TR is 45-50 degrees. Skidude and I made it about 2/3 up, between 40 and 45 degrees. At that point, it looks about 89 degrees - straight down. And, it feels like a cliff. No way it could be groomed, maintained, etc. And, if you fall, you are like a rag doll to the bottom.

[skifreak]

Yeah I don't exactly think 66

[sibhusky]

Well, as I recall, it's all bumped up. No grooming. If skidude races long enough, he'll end up there and you can see for yourselves.

[Ski]

I found the Ski Mag article from Jan. '02 called "How Steep is Steep?"

 

"Most serious steep-hounds don't really get interested until the pitch goes over 45 degrees. The limit? Top alpinists these days are working pitches in the low to mid-60 degrees, but on anything else much steeper, it becomes very difficult to maintain your ski's contact with the snow. In fact, snow's "angle of repose", the greatest tilt at which snow can stick to the slope, is, at most 75 degrees."

 

The most notoriusly steep slope in the US is Corbet's Couloir at Jackson Hole. You have to jump into the vertical entrance, then land in an amazingly steep 50 degree spot and try to catch enough edge to load up the ski and release it, hoping it'll help force another turn. I think Sib probably heard my Corbet's story a half dozen times. We all stood around the horseshoe opening, freaking out, worried about going first as much as going last. It's hard to just stand there and look over the edge.

 

Here again is the Ski Denton description of it's slope:

"Avalanche

Expert

Steepest in the East! At 66 degrees, you can't find a more exciting run. Don't even think about it if you don't fit into the criteria warning sign at the top."

 

So Ski Denton claims having a 66 degree slope that even Jeremy Nobis, Glen Plake, and Dean Cummings would have trouble just jump turning down, as they'd have to stop and lean against the headwall, while battling the forces of gravity...

 

Sort of like DaveK coming home and announcing he'd eaten only three Big Macs.

[Glenn]

I found the Ski Mag article from Jan. '02 called "How Steep is Steep?"

 

"Most serious steep-hounds don't really get interested until the pitch goes over 45 degrees. The limit? Top alpinists these days are working pitches in the low to mid-60 degrees, but on anything else much steeper, it becomes very difficult to maintain your ski's contact with the snow. In fact, snow's "angle of repose", the greatest tilt at which snow can stick to the slope, is, at most 75 degrees."

 

The most notoriusly steep slope in the US is Corbet's Couloir at Jackson Hole. You have to jump into the vertical entrance, then land in an amazingly steep 50 degree spot and try to catch enough edge to load up the ski and release it, hoping it'll help force another turn. I think Sib probably heard my Corbet's story a half dozen times. We all stood around the horseshoe opening, freaking out, worried about going first as much as going last. It's hard to just stand there and look over the edge.

 

Here again is the Ski Denton description of it's slope:

"Avalanche

Expert

Steepest in the East! At 66 degrees, you can't find a more exciting run. Don't even think about it if you don't fit into the criteria warning sign at the top."

 

So Ski Denton claims having a 66 degree slope that even Jeremy Nobis, Glen Plake, and Dean Cummings would have trouble just jump turning down, as they'd have to stop and lean against the headwall, while battling the forces of gravity...

 

Sort of like DaveK coming home and announcing he'd eaten only three Big Macs.

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My cousin live at Jackson Hole, I'll have to ask him about Corbet. Anyways, I can't imagine they would make claims if it wasn't really steep. I imagine its possible it even gets that steep, but not for long. Proboboly a roller and they measured the back side of it or some such thing.

[skimom]

Here again is the Ski Denton description of it's slope:

"Avalanche Expert Steepest in the East! At 66 degrees, you can't find a more exciting run. Don't even think about it if you don't fit into the criteria warning sign at the top." So Ski Denton claims having a 66 degree slope that even Jeremy Nobis, Glen Plake, and Dean Cummings would have trouble just jump turning down, as they'd have to stop and lean against the headwall, while battling the forces of gravity...

 

Here is another quote from their website. "Ski Denton is located in the heart of Northern Pennsylvania's heavy snow country..."

[sibhusky]

Well, there is a section of PA that gets all the "lake effect" stuff. I think they may be a bit easterly for that, but maybe not. Maybe you should visit sometime.

[Ski]

Ski Denton is only 11 miles from Sweden.