Anyone ride a custom, fix or x8?

[Dan-]

I believe he said you can't carve a pencil line, and it seems to me that he thinks Magne Traction is good, but does not like it personally.

 

 

To my knowledge if you can carve correctly it will look like a pencil line, so i state again why can't a mag board carve turns.

 

Im not trying to say he's wrong because this will be my first year on a mag board, but im curious as to why a mag board couldn't carve a turn.

Edited October 21, 2008 by Dan-

[summersux]

I believe he said you can't carve a pencil line, and it seems to me that he thinks Magne Traction is good, but does not like it personally.

 

I this is true. I do like magne traction, I just think that it is to extreme. There is no doubt it helps with griping ice, I just feel it helps too much. It cuts like a serated knife. It is real agressive, down and dirty. It works well but not for that perfect semi-circle lightning speed pencil line carve. I think it is best suited for what it was designed origanally for. It gives you some extra grip when you dull your edges on a park board.

 

To my knowledge if you can carve correctly it will look like a pencil line, so i state again why can't a mag board carve turns.

 

Im not trying to say he's wrong because this will be my first year on a mag board, but im curious as to why a mag board couldn't carve a turn.

A mag board will carve a turn very well. It just isn't the perfect pencil line very few people are capable of anyway. True carving is starting to disapear. You will have fun on a mag board for sure. It seems like a great quiver killer, just not an alpine racer. Like a jack of all trades, master of none. But don't get me wrong. You can carve a mag board, and it will bite very well.

[method9455]

It may well prove to be the next big thing in snowboarding. I am unconvinced. I point to SI bindings and the Burton Fusion as great ideas that failed miserably on the revolution in bindings.

 

The bottom line to me is that you introduce weak spots into the board, introduce variable flex along its length when previously it was even, and increase the force on the screws connecting it to the board.

 

In exchange you get a closer feel for your boot to the board and a bit better stance adjustment.

 

I just don't feel that the advantages are worth more than the disadvantages.

 

Your analysis is way off. Forget the sarcastic tone, you are just flat wrong. Inserts never pull up and out through the top of the board, ever. I didn't say they would. What happens to them is they get stripped when too much force is applied. So comparing the area of the bottom of the slot to the area of the bottom of the inserts is silly and pointless. And I wasn't even talking about the slot vs inserts in that situation, someone asked if a single row of inserts would work better, and I was answering that question. I don't think the slot would ever pull out of an ICS board. I really don't see how you can say that there are no new stress concentrations, that is just the way it is. I don't know how long it has been since you were in college but seriously, a quick Google search on the principal: http://books.google.com/books?id=gOfKT2Ya0...1&ct=result.

 

When one engineer can recognize areas that will cause it to fail, and the other sticks their head in the sand saying NO IT WON'T, who is usually right?

 

And jesus, read some of the things you wrote

 

Let

[librider]

This thread is legit. I really dont know much about engineering but I really enjoy reading both of your sides. Continue please.

[Tyler]

i agree with you lib. Its nice to read some intelligent posts from time to time.

[Dan-]

Im gonna side with Method about the T6. I rode one for two years, and hit some big jumps with it, didn't always land perfect and never had any problems. Board still rode like the first day even after 60ish days on it. Rails would mangle the core.

 

Boards like an Artifact aren't exactly meant for hitting big jumps, it's much more of a noodle and if landed on incorrectly either too far back or too far forward it's going to break the tip or tail off at the binding. Those types of boards are produced fairly cheap with way fewer materials since they are really just meant for jibbing and will be destroyed in a season anyway. They will also be way less stable and more likely to wash out on big jumps.

 

 

And as far as comparing a Magne traction board to something like an alpine carving hard boot setup isn't even a far comparsion. I don't think there is one board out there that will carve like a hard boot setup.

[Glenn]

All this theoretical talk is nice, but...

 

If the boards aren't heavier, and they weren't breaking, then there isn't a problem. If the feel is better because it's a more consistent flex (or really any reason), then who cares what kind of engineer hoops they jumped through or not. In the end, it's about what works and what you like under your feet. I've got to assume since they are putting ICS on more boards, and on their top boards, it worked for burton and those testing for burton.

 

I think what is more insane about this conversation is that somehow there is more power transferred to the board because you are on it. Tall bindings send more energy with less movement; look at racing gear, and restrictions on racing gear. There is a reason they only allow bindings to be so tall, and every single racer skis that max height. You can certainly get a more preferential feel lower to the board, and most jibbers like that since keeping the board flat is desirable.

 

I'd like to add that I hate all of you for getting new gear, and I will be riding crappy broken 4+ year old gear this year. Maybe I'll spring for a pair of boots, but thats a big maybe. Have fun with the new toys guys!

[method9455]

All this theoretical talk is nice, but...

 

If the boards aren't heavier, and they weren't breaking, then there isn't a problem. If the feel is better because it's a more consistent flex (or really any reason), then who cares what kind of engineer hoops they jumped through or not. In the end, it's about what works and what you like under your feet. I've got to assume since they are putting ICS on more boards, and on their top boards, it worked for burton and those testing for burton.

 

I think what is more insane about this conversation is that somehow there is more power transferred to the board because you are on it. Tall bindings send more energy with less movement; look at racing gear, and restrictions on racing gear. There is a reason they only allow bindings to be so tall, and every single racer skis that max height. You can certainly get a more preferential feel lower to the board, and most jibbers like that since keeping the board flat is desirable.

 

I'd like to add that I hate all of you for getting new gear, and I will be riding crappy broken 4+ year old gear this year. Maybe I'll spring for a pair of boots, but thats a big maybe. Have fun with the new toys guys!

 

Glenn that is a really good point in bold. It is what works for you. I push people away from ICS when I'm selling but summersux you know what you are getting into so go for it. Tell me what you think when you have one. I promise I will get to a Burton demo this season and try one out and give it another go. I went into it with a negative perception the first time I rode it so I'll go back with a more open mind this time and see what happens.

[burton71]

The bottom line to me is that you introduce weak spots into the board, introduce variable flex along its length when previously it was even, and increase the force on the screws connecting it to the board.

The ICS system allows for a more consistant flex from tip to tail that a conventional mounting system. The conventional system will always have dead flex areas because of the mounting hardware. The ICS eliminates those dead areas and allows for true tip to tail flex.

 

One other area that the channel system will help in is maintaining a true base on your board. I can't even count the number of boards I have seen where the base has been damaged by people over tightening their bindings. Makes tuning the boards properly a pain in the ass. This is a minor thing, but back when I used to work in a tune shop it bugged the crap outta me.

 

In the end, it's about what works and what you like under your feet

 

Yep, I wasn't to big on the ICS system when it first came out. I thought it would be just like the old Forum system. But after riding a few Burton boards with the ICS/EST system I was amazed at how well they rode. Is everyone going to feel that way...no chance, but there are some many options out there that everyone can ride what they like.

Edited October 22, 2008 by burton71

[summersux]

Your analysis is way off. Forget the sarcastic tone, you are just flat wrong. Inserts never pull up and out through the top of the board, ever. I didn't say they would. What happens to them is they get stripped when too much force is applied. So comparing the area of the bottom of the slot to the area of the bottom of the inserts is silly and pointless. And I wasn't even talking about the slot vs inserts in that situation, someone asked if a single row of inserts would work better, and I was answering that question. I don't think the slot would ever pull out of an ICS board. I really don't see how you can say that there are no new stress concentrations, that is just the way it is. I don't know how long it has been since you were in college but seriously, a quick Google search on the principal: http://books.google.com/books?id=gOfKT2Ya0...1&ct=result.

I

Edited October 22, 2008 by summersux

[nick malozzi]

I'd like to add that I hate all of you for getting new gear, and I will be riding crappy broken 4+ year old gear this year. Maybe I'll spring for a pair of boots, but thats a big maybe. Have fun with the new toys guys!

All I got was a new jacket and pants. So we'll at least be on the same page as last year, haha. I know your one board is broken, but what else is broken. I have an extra set of bindings that work fine. .

[summersux]

Im gonna side with Method about the T6. I rode one for two years, and hit some big jumps with it, didn't always land perfect and never had any problems. Board still rode like the first day even after 60ish days on it. Rails would mangle the core.

 

Boards like an Artifact aren't exactly meant for hitting big jumps, it's much more of a noodle and if landed on incorrectly either too far back or too far forward it's going to break the tip or tail off at the binding. Those types of boards are produced fairly cheap with way fewer materials since they are really just meant for jibbing and will be destroyed in a season anyway. They will also be way less stable and more likely to wash out on big jumps.

 

 

And as far as comparing a Magne traction board to something like an alpine carving hard boot setup isn't even a far comparsion. I don't think there is one board out there that will carve like a hard boot setup.

You don't need to go as far as to compare it to a hardboot setup. Magne traction boards are great but don't carve like a stiff cambered board, like a T6 or a custom x. Magne traction is great but it's not the be all end all for carving. My complant is the squigles don't make the nice, clean lines like a stiff cambered board. It slows you down some because of the added resistance and just dosn't feel the same. They carve, it's just different. I tried a friends skate banana for a day. It was a great all puropose board. The rocker is ok too, but again for carving it dosn't pop out like a cambered board. It's just the nature of rocker. But like I said, it is a great all purpose board.

 

I think glenn put it the best. It is all about what you like to ride and works for you.

[Dan-]

Well thats why. My next question was going to be which mag board did you ride. The skate banana was really intended to be a park board. You want something faster pick something higher up in the line. Like an altered Genetics by Gnu or the TRS from Lib. The bases are also made of better materials so they'd be faster. If you rode those your opinion might change a bit.

 

Im not trying to say that mag + banana is the greatest thing out it's just something different. I still have a cambered stiff board in my quiver.

Edited October 22, 2008 by Dan-

[summersux]

I thought about a trs this year but was told they can be slower too- especially if it is slushy conditions. Im not sure however, I really want to demo one. There was nothing wrong with the banana. I just wouldn't want it as a freeride board when compared to others.

[Dan-]

It's gonna be slim pickings trying to demo something from mervin around here.

Edited October 22, 2008 by Dan-

[summersux]

Haha, demo for me usually means ride on of my friends! However, I don't think any of them picked up a TRS or anything similar to it...

[method9455]

I

[summersux]

I agree with you on a lot of stuff. The torque thing is silly as hell. Ski companies specify a torque when you are mounting ski bindings. Every shop has a bunch of torque screw drivers, why not tell us what to do for snowboard bindings? Not only do they get stripped, but they dimple the base!

 

I was going by cross sectional area not outside dimensions, you are definitely right on outside dimensions and I am right on cross sectional area. I didn't understand what you meant the first time.

 

My concern with the stress concentrations are not riding. I know the board won't break riding down a trail. My thought is when you land with your tail coming down at a 45 degree angle to the deck. If you do it hard enough, all boards will break right behind the rear binding. But my thinking is that ICS will break with less force than other boards.

 

I certainly ride with you and give it a try. I'm due for a new board really badly this year and I was considering the Rome Mod but maybe I'll ride some new boards this year. I didn't demo anything last year and the X8 was not out when I was demoing stuff.

Yeah, I think we got a little carried away with the dimensions and cross sectional area. We were both right, just talking about different things. I really do wish they specified a torque too. Guessing just means you will never get it right. As far as landing on the tail goes, I guess I will see if it breaks easily. If it does, oh well, the boards come with a 2 year warranty. I am excited just to give it a try! Right now all we need to worry about is cold weather and a little snow!