So when do we think BB will open this year?

[darklordofsys]

I actually can't remember when it opened last year. I just know that it was like Thanksgiving or before.

[poconoceancity]

I heard they want to open for halloween. Even if we have a warm fall they will be open by Thanksgiving.

[phillycore]

Last year they opened November 10th

 

They'll open as soon as mother nature allows them to.....

Hopefully it gets colder sooner and not later...

[jordan]

My guess is December 6th, last year was a fluke with that cold spell. If they are seriously talking about halloween, they need to wake up and realize that they are still in northeast PA.

[skifreak]

I know this post will be more about snowmaking, but I want to try and explain what Peak Resorts is trying to do by opening up early. I also want to help explain how just because a ski area has almost all fan guns, it doesn't mean they can open after a night or two of snowmaking.

 

Peak Resorts is owned by SMI Snowmakers, or maybe it's the other way around. SMI is the manufacturer of a lot of fan guns in the United States and that's why you see places like Mount Snow and other Peak Resorts installing fan guns. At the end of the day other resorts see how they are opening early and quickly, and they rush to buy fan guns to do the same thing. It's pretty much a marketing stunt for SMI and it is working really well. Last year BB and Mount Snow really helped SMI out by opening early. If you look back when news stations interviewed the resort manager, he would credit the "new, energy efficient snowmakers from SMI". What he should have said is that he just got lucky from a deep cold spell.

 

What people don't realize and resorts don't realize is that in order for a fan gun to make a lot of snow, it has to be 20

[phillycore]

In all fairness you can't really compare BC to Blue unless you are talking about lodges, or terrain parks.

[Kyle]

Point is this: Unless it gets really cold in October don't plan on BB opening up. They will open when everyone else does if it doesn't get cold enough.

 

yay for sparknotes because i really didnt feel like reading that whole thing

[toast21602]

I know this post... ...They will open when everyone else does if it doesn't get cold enough.

 

well said.

 

but yeah, i'm thinking it will be november 21st.

[darklordofsys]

Wow..that's and awesome and very detailed explanation. Way to dig into the details. So here's to hoping for a good cold spell in late October. :-)

 

I know this post will be more about snowmaking, but I want to try and explain what Peak Resorts is trying to do by opening up early. I also want to help explain how just because a ski area has almost all fan guns, it doesn't mean they can open after a night or two of snowmaking.

 

Peak Resorts is owned by SMI Snowmakers, or maybe it's the other way around. SMI is the manufacturer of a lot of fan guns in the United States and that's why you see places like Mount Snow and other Peak Resorts installing fan guns. At the end of the day other resorts see how they are opening early and quickly, and they rush to buy fan guns to do the same thing. It's pretty much a marketing stunt for SMI and it is working really well. Last year BB and Mount Snow really helped SMI out by opening early. If you look back when news stations interviewed the resort manager, he would credit the "new, energy efficient snowmakers from SMI". What he should have said is that he just got lucky from a deep cold spell.

 

What people don't realize and resorts don't realize is that in order for a fan gun to make a lot of snow, it has to be 20

[JFskiDan]

i'm big into machinery, gagets, and how things work, but, dont really care what kind of magic wand they have to wave, i would just really like to go skiing over thanksgiving at boulder.

[fluffy]

Skifreak, your information is completely inaccurate. That was a nice rant you posted, but if you want it to pass as a detailed explanation you should really check your facts first. My favorite part is that Peak owns SMI or the other way around and thus Peak is using JFBB as a marketing tool simply to sell more SMI products.

 

Bwahahahahaha. Get real.

[skifreak]

Skifreak, your information is completely inaccurate. That was a nice rant you posted, but if you want it to pass as a detailed explanation you should really check your facts first. My favorite part is that Peak owns SMI or the other way around and thus Peak is using JFBB as a marketing tool simply to sell more SMI products.

 

Bwahahahahaha. Get real.

 

It's not publicly known, but they are both owned by the same company. Like I said I don't know who owns who, but they are all tied together.

Edited September 16, 2008 by skifreak

[fluffy]

It's not publicly known, but they are both owned by the same company. Like I said I don't know who owns who, but they are all tied together.

 

 

Source for this information? If it's not publicly known, then how do you have the inside information?

[sstylles]

It's not publicly known, but they are both owned by the same company. Like I said I don't know who owns who, but they are all tied together.

 

Ummm yeah.. the reason they are tied together is because Peak is a customer of SMI.. I guess since you ride Atomic's you must own them.... or maybe they own you. Which is it??

Edited September 16, 2008 by sstylles

[skifreak]

Source for this information? If it's not publicly known, then how do you have the inside information?

 

Look, I don't want to get this entire thread off topic and closed because of a minor discrepancy. I heard this from someone on a home snowmaking forum, whether it's actually true or not, I don't know. I did email Peak Resorts to ask after you said they weren't, but I haven't heard back from Peak, and mostly likely won't. But SMI has really grown fast over the past few years (in fact they almost doubled the size of their facility) and it's because they have really started to take over the snowmaking market with people seeing how much snow their fan guns can make. I was never getting at other mountains were only buying fan guns because they saw how much snow BB made from them It is helping SMI to some point because you don't see many mountains buying Turbocristal or Areco guns. SMI getting business from other mountains when they see Peak Resorts opening fast is my personal opinion. There is a video on youtube from CNN money where Mount Snow credited the new fan guns for allowing them to open early, and I think the first VT resort last year.

 

Ummm yeah.. the reason they are tied together is because Peak is a customer of SMI.. I guess since you ride Atomic's you must own them.... or maybe they own you. Which is it??

 

As I said above, I heard SMI owned Peak Resorts or Peak Resorts owned SMI, I just didn't know who owned who. It turns out this may just be a rumor, I was just stating what I heard from elsewhere. Many corporations own other companies/corporations and being both are in the winter sports industry it makes sense, especially since Peak Resorts was buying tons of SMI guns. Snowmaking companies do sometimes offer contracts with mountains, and may be that's what SMI did with Peak Resorts because Peak is only installing SMI fan guns at their mountains from the looks of it.

 

The whole point of my post was BB opened early last year because they were able to use the fan guns to their full advantage with cold temps. I'm saying it can happen again this year, provided we get the same weather. But if it's only marginal snowmaking weather it will take them longer to open up because a fan gun flows less water in marginal conditions. I was also just stating their are better guns for use in marginal snowmaking weather compared to fan guns.

 

I hope this clears everything up, I didn't mean to upset anyone!

[Kyle]

boulder should have no problem getting at least 1 trail open by the 20th. i'm heading up there on the 26th of september to check things out. do they still have that mini ramp you can skate or no?

[sstylles]

I hope this clears everything up, I didn't mean to upset anyone!

 

No hard feelings.. just wanted to point out that they could be connected through business transactions but that doesn't necessarily mean that one owns the other.

[skifreak]

No hard feelings.. just wanted to point out that they could be connected through business transactions but that doesn't necessarily mean that one owns the other.

 

Yeah it's all good. I know what you were saying, but I think they are actually OWNED by one another and not just connected just because Peak buys from SMI. But like I said, it might actually turn out that they aren't owned by one another as I had previously thought/heard.

[method9455]

You are certainly right about fans guns being less efficient on marginal temps. The advantage comes during a cold snap when you cannpump out a large volume of snow in a small window. Every fall at some point we get a cold snap prior to the real start of cold temperatures, or at least a warm up after the initial cold spell that marks it marginal or impossible to make snow. So whoever can lay down the most snow in that initial window wins. The truth is that the initial cold front that allows snowmaking is usually a fluke out of Canada that is short and sweet. Being able to make more snow for less money at the start of the front out weighs having to turn them off sooner when it warms up again.

 

Id also really question the way you calculated ROI. That is not a simple calculation to male and the assumptions you make on inflation and energy prices will effect the outcome. It seems like most resorts think energy prices will rise and i would probably agree with that.

 

You are quite right on having a mix of guns, but as of last year both jfbb and mt snow still made heavy use of air guns as well.

 

Excuse the horrid spelling I'm doing this on a tiny mobile keyboard

Edited September 17, 2008 by Method9455

[Saurus]

HALLOWEEN!

[rgrwilco]

im going to say october. because its keeping me sane. so much shit going in my life that if i think and hear that ill be able to ride that soon, it makes it better.

[Sno Mountain Skier]

They will open when its cold enough. A few nights of snowmaking and they will be open, so whenever its cold for a few days they will be open.

[jordan]

compressed air guns ARE better at marginal temperatures. Anyone who has taken a physics class can tell you that fans raise the ambient air temperature, while the rapid expansion of compressed air cools it...

 

Jordan

[method9455]

compressed air guns ARE better at marginal temperatures. Anyone who has taken a physics class can tell you that fans raise the ambient air temperature, while the rapid expansion of compressed air cools it...

 

Jordan

 

I don't think you will find anyone who denies that. This has a lot more to do with economics than physics. The problem today is making the most snow for the least amount of money over the course of the season, not necessarily the snow at the warmest possible temperature.

 

I also would rather have the quality of the snow that comes out of a fan gun over a longer season, it is pretty amazing how much of a difference there is. You can feel it on Mount Snow where you have fan gun trails right next to normal gun trails that get the same exposure and weather and grooming. You can't really compare one mountain to another, but trail to trail on the same mountain is an apples to apples comparison.

[phillycore]

Hell look at the snow quality of Jack Frost compared to Blue...

 

The snow quality at JF is WAY better, softer, less death cookies, etc.. Could be due to their grooming as well I guess...