skifreak Posted September 22, 2008 Report Posted September 22, 2008 I don't think you will find anyone who denies that. This has a lot more to do with economics than physics. The problem today is making the most snow for the least amount of money over the course of the season, not necessarily the snow at the warmest possible temperature. That's pretty much what it comes down to. You will still find some resorts that are so used to air/water guns refusing to try fan guns or even an automated snowmaking system. Some mountains think it's crazy to cover a large area with pee shooter guns (air/water guns) and use a fan gun. Other resorts think the fan gun is expensive, a pain to move, and will just use 5 air/water guns. Fan guns make better quality snow in warmer temps, but there comes a point where snowguns all make the same quality snow when the temps drop. Of course you can make high quality snow with an air/water gun. It just matters whose running it and how much water they are feeding it. You can make really high quality snow with an air/water gun at marginal temps if you aren't going crazy on the water. Quote
miller lite drinker Posted September 23, 2008 Report Posted September 23, 2008 umm,, can i just say big boulder opened last year at 29 degrees for a low with 26 smi fan guns on freedom, and it does not come down to the gun itself its the crew that knows how to tweak them to the max (big boulders lil trade secret) and believe me i know this is true. Quote
phillycore Posted September 24, 2008 Report Posted September 24, 2008 If BB's crew is that Bad Ass then open tomorrow otherwise Tweak these.............. Quote
toast21602 Posted September 24, 2008 Report Posted September 24, 2008 ooooooooooooooooooooooook. Quote
phillycore Posted September 24, 2008 Report Posted September 24, 2008 Don't mind me I'm just jonesin for slope time... Quote
jordan Posted September 24, 2008 Report Posted September 24, 2008 umm,, can i just say big boulder opened last year at 29 degrees for a low with 26 smi fan guns on freedom, and it does not come down to the gun itself its the crew that knows how to tweak them to the max (big boulders lil trade secret) and believe me i know this is true. believe me, changing water ratios is not a big boulder trade secret. Depending on the humidity, you could make snow with air guns at temps up to 40 degrees... Jordan Quote
miller lite drinker Posted September 24, 2008 Report Posted September 24, 2008 so if anyone can do it,,,, why arent they? Quote
rgrwilco Posted September 24, 2008 Report Posted September 24, 2008 bb is slightly higher in elevation. dont know if its enough to make that much of a difference. i heard that boulder pays a flat rate for power until a certain date? is this true? then it would mean they arent wasting money blowing early. Quote
librider Posted September 24, 2008 Report Posted September 24, 2008 From what I heard boulder is having something Halloween, If its cold enough their will be an opening if not, just a railjam. Quote
Ride Delaware ? Posted September 24, 2008 Report Posted September 24, 2008 Im hoping that this colder winter actually occurs... If it is slightly colder during november this year, I wouldn't doubt that several mountains could open up with a couple trails after Thanksgiving... Not to mention, post thanksgiving skiing and riding would be a huge money maker because people don't have anything to do... I'm calling it now, 3-4 trails at Big Boulder at the least... If their lucky, Shawnee may even be able to squeeze the same 4 out they did 3-4 years ago... Hopefully they can keep the snow on the trails and not have to shut down for a week afterwards though lol... I heard that nearly 2,000 people showed up for that one day and that the lines were absolutely ridiculous... Quote
phillycore Posted September 24, 2008 Report Posted September 24, 2008 Im hoping that this colder winter actually occurs... If it is slightly colder during november this year, I wouldn't doubt that several mountains could open up with a couple trails after Thanksgiving... Not to mention, post thanksgiving skiing and riding would be a huge money maker because people don't have anything to do... I'm calling it now, 3-4 trails at Big Boulder at the least... If their lucky, Shawnee may even be able to squeeze the same 4 out they did 3-4 years ago... Hopefully they can keep the snow on the trails and not have to shut down for a week afterwards though lol... I heard that nearly 2,000 people showed up for that one day and that the lines were absolutely ridiculous... I was there last year on Nov 11th (day 2) and the lines were crazy for how little there was there... It was worth it though... and it was only $20. Everyone was so stoked.. Quote
jordan Posted September 24, 2008 Report Posted September 24, 2008 so if anyone can do it,,,, why arent they? its very energy inefficient to make snow at higher temperatures. Quote
Kyle Posted September 25, 2008 Report Posted September 25, 2008 its very energy inefficient to make snow at higher temperatures. exaclty. why bother blowing snow if its going to cost say $5,000 and youre only going to make $3,000 on the open "trail". and in todays market money is everything Quote
sstylles Posted September 25, 2008 Report Posted September 25, 2008 exaclty. why bother blowing snow if its going to cost say $5,000 and youre only going to make $3,000 on the open "trail". and in todays market money is everything Well last year BB had 800 people the first day. At $20 a ticket that comes to $16,000. I don't really know what it cost to make the snow, but that seems like a good return. Plus, the buzz generated from the early opening is priceless. Quote
stbgskibum247 Posted September 26, 2008 Report Posted September 26, 2008 Do you remember how many rails they had? I think it was like 8 or so Quote
toast21602 Posted September 26, 2008 Report Posted September 26, 2008 no, not 8 rails. only about 1 rail. the rest were boxes, probably 5 or 6 of them from what i remember. Quote
Justo8484 Posted September 26, 2008 Report Posted September 26, 2008 no, not 8 rails. only about 1 rail. the rest were boxes, probably 5 or 6 of them from what i remember. 3 rails if i remember correctly. dfd up top on the left, then low short double barrel on the right, then down bar on the right after that. i was skiing in the beginning of november, on non-rink snow, so i don't really care what they had out, they were open when no one else was. Quote
Dan- Posted September 26, 2008 Report Posted September 26, 2008 so if anyone can do it,,,, why arent they? Money. That's all. The market in Pa just isn't there. Quote
phillycore Posted September 27, 2008 Report Posted September 27, 2008 3 rails if i remember correctly. dfd up top on the left, then low short double barrel on the right, then down bar on the right after that. i was skiing in the beginning of november, on non-rink snow, so i don't really care what they had out, they were open when no one else was. X2 Park Rats and Racers and Freeriders Boarders and Skiers and Bladers All hitting the same slope and no hating going on whatsoever... Was a total Stokefest and a real rarity... Quote
ski HEAD Posted October 2, 2008 Report Posted October 2, 2008 What people don't realize and resorts don't realize is that in order for a fan gun to make a lot of snow, it has to be 20 Quote
Shadows Posted October 2, 2008 Report Posted October 2, 2008 (edited) What you forgot to mention is a lot more goes into snow making that air temp and humidity. There is dry bulb and wet bulb temps and also the temp of you water before and after pumping. What makes fan guns more efficient at higher temps is a product called Sno-max. The way it was explained to me was it is a non-living organism that allows the snow crystal to form around which allows snow making at higher temps. The more sno max that is used the higher temps they can blow at. Also electric companies give high users a better rate to use electricity at off-peak times. But if you use on peak power you lose your lower rate. correct about the power. thats obvous though. all snomax is, is a nucleator. if you have 100% pure water, snomax acts as a dirt molecule (or some other form of nuclues) for water to form on. you dont technically need snomax if your water source has a natural nucleator but it for sure helps. it does increase heat in the plume i believe though so in turn you can end up blowing a better product when compared without it. snomax and drift are both used. drift has nothing to do with nucleuation but it still helps gun output/quality skifreak is dead on though, so i dont see the need to argue over it. fan guns are terrible in marginal temps - even with snomax. abay opens in 9 days Edited October 2, 2008 by shadows Quote
jordan Posted October 2, 2008 Report Posted October 2, 2008 correct about the power. thats obvous though. all snomax is, is a nucleator. if you have 100% pure water, snomax acts as a dirt molecule (or some other form of nuclues) for water to form on. you dont technically need snomax if your water source has a natural nucleator but it for sure helps. it does increase heat in the plume i believe though so in turn you can end up blowing a better product when compared without it. snomax and drift are both used. drift has nothing to do with nucleuation but it still helps gun output/quality skifreak is dead on though, so i dont see the need to argue over it. fan guns are terrible in marginal temps - even with snomax. abay opens in 9 days Heh, looking at the forecast, we will be lucky to ski ABAY on the 17th... Quote
Shadows Posted October 2, 2008 Report Posted October 2, 2008 Heh, looking at the forecast, we will be lucky to ski ABAY on the 17th... true, but you got to keep hope alive at least Quote
Papasteeze Posted October 3, 2008 Report Posted October 3, 2008 (edited) 3 rails if i remember correctly. dfd up top on the left, then low short double barrel on the right, then down bar on the right after that. i was skiing in the beginning of november, on non-rink snow, so i don't really care what they had out, they were open when no one else was. can't remember how to embed here hope that works. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDOT6HK1fno Edited October 3, 2008 by ThinkSnow Edited so it worked Quote
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