3 quad lifts at Bear?

[ColoradoHigh]

Not sure if I just noticed this, but on the webcam, they have put in a new quad chair where the old double used to be. I don't remember that one was a quad lift last winter. Did they just put it in this summer?

[snowboarddude]

Not sure if I just noticed this, but on the webcam, they have put in a new quad chair where the old double used to be. I don't remember that one was a quad lift last winter. Did they just put it in this summer?

 

yeah that was just added this summer

 

i hope the seats are comfortable

[toast21602]

i'm guessing its still not high-speed due to the lack of length? correct me if i'm wrong?

[snowboarddude]

no its just regular speed

[rgrwilco]

i still dont buy into this length thing at all. ive found shorter HSQ's installed in the midwest than bears double was.

[mollyskeez]

oh well its already in anyway. but the trails would be hella crowded with a highspeed and we dont need that.

[Mixilplix]

I don't think it's cable length,but the amount of space that the top and bottom stations take up...could be wrong though..

[First Grade Teacher]

Actually fixed grip quads have chairs spaced much closer together....and a similar uphill capacity to high speed quads..

Are you high?

[First Grade Teacher]

but seriously fixed grip quads and high speed quads both have a capacity of around 2500 skiers/riders per hour

Then why would resorts spend the cash for detachables?

[First Grade Teacher]

With the quad and six pack at Blue..8 runs an hour is possible..with the old challenge lift..5 runs in an hour was pushing it..

So a lift that you get 3 extra runs an hour has the same capacity as a fixed grip? Not to mention the 2 extra people on a six pack.

Edited October 8, 2008 by First Grade Teacher

[steeze la weeze]

awww. i want a high speed!

but i wont complain, any new lift is a gift

[paolo]

^ Not really. That old lift was sort of fun.

[Glenn]

So a lift that you get 3 extra runs an hour has the same capacity as a fixed grip? Not to mention the 2 extra people on a six pack.

 

Higher person density on the rope for quad fixed vs. quad detachable. I think it's agreed upon the uphill capacity of fixed vs. detach is about the same.

Edited October 8, 2008 by Glenn

[toast21602]

convenience and comfort goes to the high-speed in my book. i would rather ride up 2000+ vert on a high speed lift than sit there and freeze my ass cheeks to the seat on the 20 minute ride. but when it comes to uphill capacity, fixed and detached seem to be similar from everything that i just looked at.

[First Grade Teacher]

Higher person density on the rope for quad fixed vs. quad detachable. I think it's agreed upon the uphill capacity of fixed vs. detach is about the same.

Maybe you agree. I don't. Show me data that says uphill capacity is about the same. Detachable is at least double that of fixed.

[AtomicSkier]

Maybe you agree. I don't. Show me data that says uphill capacity is about the same. Detachable is at least double that of fixed.

 

FGT, It's a pretty well established fact that on the same line length, a HSDQ and a FG Quad will transport the same amount of passengers per hour. The high speed lifts at Blue run at 2x the line speed of a fixed grip. However, there are 1/2 the amount of chairs on a high speed. The uphill capacity is the same, but you won't be able to get as many runs in per hour, because a fixed grip puts more people in the air. Essentially, the line for a HSDQ should be longer because less people are in the air. It's just a matter of where the people are queued up (in the line or in the air).

 

From Wikipedia (keep in mind they compared a FG double to a HSDQ, but if you make it a FG quad, it's equal)

The two-person double chair, which for many years was the workhorse of the ski industry, can move roughly 1200 people per hour at rope speeds of up to 2.5 m/s. The four person detachable chairlift ("high-speed quad") can transport 2400 people per hour with an average rope speed of 5 m/s.

[Johnny Law]

Maybe you agree. I don't. Show me data that says uphill capacity is about the same. Detachable is at least double that of fixed.

 

I'm almost afraid to encourage him but in the general sense he's right.

 

Uphill capacity though is a tricky business with many variables.

 

First, as for Bear Creek a detach is not a real good option, chair spacing can be a serious problem with detach chairs running on really short haul lengths, additionally keeping the weight distribution right would probably result in pretty widely spaced carriers thus lowering the uphill capacity. Additionally BC has a limited amount of electricity available from the Utility, thus a high speed may need to replace two lifts. On site generation is a cluster fuck, go to Kirkwood if you don't believe me.

 

Both fixed and detach actually leave the haul rope when traveling around the bullwheel but the detach is doing it at a much slower rate, this greatly reduces mis loads which can attribute to a much lower uphill capacity. Most detach actually gain uphill capacity this way. Capacity as a whole is limited by the power of the drive motor versus the rope speed, carrier spacing, vertical displacement and the number of carriers on the haul. Generally rope speed on a high speed is twice the speed of a fixed, 2m per sec. (fixed) 5 to 12 m per sec. (detach), remember though that the load interval is much higher on detaches to maintain proper chair spacing.

 

Generally speaking uphill capacity is higher with a detach, but other variables are almost always present. Fixed grips can't climb a vertical rise like a detach, additionally a detach can travel much greater distances. The hold down sheave assembly of some detaches when they leave the gate are super long for this reason, add in the additional costs for more complex grips, compression assemblies, guide rails, auxiliary, conveyors, bull wheels, e brakes, crossarms, and about another thousand parts and you can see where they are vastly more expensive.

 

Now add in topography or put more simply, better put in a tram because towers are going to be $$$ if not impossible. High speeds are expensive and sometimes multiple fixed grips do a better job getting people up top than one high speed.

 

We could have an hour long discussion on lifts but it would be nasty with me inevitably yelling about the dumb ass swiss and their pulse lifts.

[k2rider2690]

i personally think that bear should have kept that old double and made it for park access only...and close off the park to the rest of the mountion unless you take that lift...bear didnt even use that double more than half the time...let alone putting in a quad...besides weekends, now its just gonna be even more crowed

[First Grade Teacher]

Generally speaking uphill capacity is higher with a detach,

It has to be. I would love to see some real #'s from a manufacturer that compares apples to apples. I looked and can't really find one. There would be no good reason for a resort to spend the extra dollars to go detachable unless it gave them much more capacity. A detachable costs probably 4 times as much to buy, not to mention the maintenance costs.

[First Grade Teacher]

Essentially, the line for a HSDQ should be longer because less people are in the air. It's just a matter of where the people are queued up (in the line or in the air).

Would you rather stand in line or sit on a chair? This is another reason the detach has to be faster. Why would a ski area want you standing in line?

 

Imagine the sales pitch. "Well Mrs. Green you are correct. The lift line will be longer but don't worry the chair only costs 4 times as much." It just doesn't make sense!

Edited October 8, 2008 by First Grade Teacher

[AtomicSkier]

Would you rather stand in line or sit on a chair? This is another reason the detach has to be faster. Why would a ski area want you standing in line?

 

Imagine the sales pitch. "Well Mrs. Green you are correct. The lift line will be longer but don't worry the chair only costs 4 times as much." It just doesn't make sense!

 

 

Think about it, assuming equal number of total people on the lift and in the queue. For example a 100 chair HSDQ has 400 people on the lift, and 600 in the line and runs at 5m/s. A 200 chair FG Quad has 800 people on the lift, and 200 in line and runs at 2.5m/s. That 200th person, is going to get to the top of the mountain just as fast as the person at the back of the 600 person line.

 

Sure, the HSDQ moves people up the mountain 2x as fast, but it needs to, because it's line has 400 more people in it. Likewise, the FG is twice as slow, but has twice as many people on the lift.

 

I love HSDQ's, especially when it's not crowded, but they don't necessarily increase uphill capacity. Maybe effective capacity, but not the actual. capacity

[moe ghoul]

Hi speed at Mount Assboyle? You'd barely have enough time to get the bar down before you'd have to lift it back up! What's the rush?

[First Grade Teacher]

Think about it, assuming equal number of total people on the lift and in the queue. For example a 100 chair HSDQ has 400 people on the lift, and 600 in the line and runs at 5m/s. A 200 chair FG Quad has 800 people on the lift, and 200 in line and runs at 2.5m/s. That 200th person, is going to get to the top of the mountain just as fast as the person at the back of the 600 person line.

 

Sure, the HSDQ moves people up the mountain 2x as fast, but it needs to, because it's line has 400 more people in it. Likewise, the FG is twice as slow, but has twice as many people on the lift.

 

I love HSDQ's, especially when it's not crowded, but they don't necessarily increase uphill capacity. Maybe effective capacity, but not the actual. capacity

Your #'s make sense but you provided them. None of you have explained why a resort would spend all that extra cash for no capacity gain. I suspect one of your figures is not correct.

[mollyskeez]

bear creek doesnt even need a hsdq i think theyre just fine with whhat they have.

[AtomicSkier]

Your #'s make sense but you provided them. None of you have explained why a resort would spend all that extra cash for no capacity gain. I suspect one of your figures is not correct.

 

Because customers like high speed lifts, for good reasons. And in less then capacity crowds, you CAN do laps faster on a high speed.