New Ski Advise

[Max]

I'm in the market to buy new skis before the season. I need some recommendations. I ski the whole mountain but am starting to ski park more and more. I ski rails and boxes alot. Looking for a good ski that is like an all mountain twin tip.

[jordan]

I'm in the market to buy new skis before the season. I need some recommendations. I ski the whole mountain but am starting to ski park more and more. I ski rails and boxes alot. Looking for a good ski that is like an all mountain twin tip.

rossi scratch BC

Edited October 28, 2008 by jordan

[snorovr]

If you are primarily skiing around here and in New York look for a twin-tip with sidewall construction, wood core, and mid-80's in the waist. Line Chronic, K2 Extreme, Nordica Ignition, Salomon Suspect, etc... It will ski well all-mountain, have enough float for some moderate freshies, and still rip everything in the park.

Edited October 29, 2008 by T*Maki

[skeer_tomas]

The Line prophet 90's are supposed to be real nice as far as all mountian/park&pipe goes.

[snorovr]

The Line prophet 90's are supposed to be real nice as far as all mountian/park&pipe goes.

 

Definitely. They are built more as an all-mountain ski with a sheet of metal in them, a little different sidecut, and wider than the Chronic, Line's narrower park ski. As for park and pipe, all of Line's skis have the same height tail as the tip, so no problem there. Theoretically 90mm starts getting close to the point where for most riders it starts to get too wide for more technical or urban rails like down-flat-downs. I feel like for strictly park I'll always prefer something <87mm underfoot, but if you look at the industry there are sooooo many wide park skis out there now, and plenty of kids are hitting park rails fine on 100mm skis (I have yet to see too many people hitting urban stuff on fat boards).

[KevinThomas]

Line Chronic, K2 Extreme, Nordica Ignition, Salomon Suspect, etc...

 

I'd stick to skis like these as opposed to the prophets. The prophets are definitely more of an all mt ski. Like trevor said, they've got metal in em and metal has the potential to bend if you land wrong. Also like tre said, they're a little wide. There's much better skis for you than those. Chronics would be real sick, and now that salomon made an all wood core park ski, the suspects too. As far as other options go there's a huge list of good skis. Rossi Scratch FS/Squindo, K2 Silencer, Dynastar Troublemaker...goes on and on.

[snorovr]

As far as other options go there's a huge list of good skis. goes on and on.

 

Remember when there used to be like three decent twin-tips to choose from?!? If even that many! What the hell happened?!?!!!! Anyone who denies that newschool skiing isn't going to be a big part of the snowsports market only needs to look at their local shops twin-tip selection...

[skeer_tomas]

Remember when there used to be like three decent twin-tips to choose from?!? If even that many! What the hell happened?!?!!!! Anyone who denies that newschool skiing isn't going to be a big part of the snowsports market only needs to look at their local shops twin-tip selection...

 

It was always either the 1080, the 1260's, or the scratches. now theres like 3 dozen park specific skis to chose from.

[Johnny Law]

It was always either the 1080, the 1260's, or the scratches. now theres like 3 dozen park specific skis to chose from.

 

When the 1080's came out soo many people wanted them, some didn't have the $$$ so they ghetto twined there boards. It was mad funny because if they used to much heat to get the bend it would eliminate the bonds between the layers and hello instant delam.......I had some Dynastar big max's I did this to.

[Andreas]

every company has their version of another companies ski. Like the k2 extreme and Line Chronics are basically the same ski.

Personally i wouldnt get the k2 extremes because of their weight and stiffness since they are the replacement for the PE. As i got more into park the ski slowed my progression down.

Salomon suspect is also somethin to look into. your best bet is to look at the reviews on www.newschoolers.com

 

u mite wanna check some Armada El Rays too.

according to Armada they are

Park 8/10

Pipe 8/10

Groomers 10/10

powder 7/10

big mountain 7/10

Edited November 3, 2008 by Andreas

[snorovr]

Have you picked up PE's next to Extremes??? From what I remember the Extremes feel so different than the PE's. Lighter AND softer...

[Justo8484]

every company has their version of another companies ski. Like the k2 extreme and Line Chronics are basically the same ski.

Personally i wouldnt get the k2 extremes because of their weight and stiffness since they are the replacement for the PE. As i got more into park the ski slowed my progression down.

Salomon suspect is also somethin to look into. your best bet is to look at the reviews on www.newschoolers.com

 

u mite wanna check some Armada El Rays too.

according to Armada they are

Park 8/10

Pipe 8/10

Groomers 10/10

powder 7/10

big mountain 7/10

 

uhhhhh....

 

while newschoolers can be a valuable resource, you definitely need to take it with a 90/10 approach. 90% of the posts there are complete and utter BS, while about 10% might contain valid info. regarding the PE/Extreme... same dimensions, same core, same urethane sidewall under foot, but the extreme doesnt use a ptex topsheet like the PE did, therefore its might lighter. the chronic is not at all the same ski either. different sidecuts, completely different construction (torsion box in the extreme vs a rudimentary laminate in the chronic), different sidewalls, etc. they both serve roughly the same purpose, but they ski very differently.

[method9455]

The Line prophet 90's are supposed to be real nice as far as all mountian/park&pipe goes.

 

2nd that. Though somewhat soured by their binding episode a few years back I still love that ski. I would put them as "I ski all mountain but dabble in the park" ski, more than a "I only ride park" ski. If they were your one ski I would put them over the chronics because I feel like the chronics are a one trick pony. The rossi scratch is a great option as well.

Edited November 4, 2008 by Method9455

[method9455]

Remember when there used to be like three decent twin-tips to choose from?!? If even that many! What the hell happened?!?!!!! Anyone who denies that newschool skiing isn't going to be a big part of the snowsports market only needs to look at their local shops twin-tip selection...

 

The only problem comes when you try to sell all mountain twins to people who are not looking for park skis and they think that because they are twin they are meant to be park skis, but the reality today is that there are a lot of all mountain twins that are equal or better to the regular skis being put out there. At my shop we sold through our regular skis at a 90+% rate, and only about 60-70% on twins. For perspective, snowboards we usually hit about 80%. So people were definately over buying regulars and under buying twins out of fear. We usually bought about 70% regular and 30% twin thinking "this will be the year they finally catch on" over and over, and as of yet it just hasn't passed that mark.

 

What I will tell you is that the guys who know what they are doing are more likely to come in and be open to buying a twin tip. I don't know if that is because if you are more serious you go through more skis so are willing to try something new, or what, but it is the case. The guys who come in and spend 1-2 weeks a year in Vail/Aspen are the least likely to buy twins and the most likely to buy a Volkl or Atomic ski that is way too stiff for them and pair it up with Lange boots that are way to stiff for them and pretend they are Bode Miller as they yardsale down the hill - but that is neither here or there.

[First Grade Teacher]

The only problem comes when you try to sell all mountain twins to people who are not looking for park skis and they think that because they are twin they are meant to be park skis, but the reality today is that there are a lot of all mountain twins that are equal or better to the regular skis being put out there. At my shop we sold through our regular skis at a 90+% rate, and only about 60-70% on twins. For perspective, snowboards we usually hit about 80%. So people were definately over buying regulars and under buying twins out of fear. We usually bought about 70% regular and 30% twin thinking "this will be the year they finally catch on" over and over, and as of yet it just hasn't passed that mark.

Sounds to me like your shop is over buying twins. You have to carry what the customer will buy. Most customers will never ski switch so why would they want a twin? There are plenty of great non twins out there.

[AtomicSkier]

I like my Public Enemy's because I can finally pay back all the mofo's over the years that have shot chunks of ice in my face. Pay back's a bitch.

[snorovr]

completely different construction (torsion box in the extreme vs a rudimentary laminate in the chronic)

 

At present, almost every modern ski that you'd find on a shop wall (including the Chronic) has some derivative of "torsion box" construction. K2 just uses this proprietary marketing term to add another technological selling point to their lineup.

[Justo8484]

At present, almost every modern ski that you'd find on a shop wall (including the Chronic) has some derivative of "torsion box" construction. K2 just uses this proprietary marketing term to add another technological selling point to their lineup.

 

sorry, my fingers were not typing what my brain was thinking. pretty sure the chronic does not have the fiberglass sock thing going on.

[First Grade Teacher]

At present, almost every modern ski that you'd find on a shop wall (including the Chronic) has some derivative of "torsion box" construction. K2 just uses this proprietary marketing term to add another technological selling point to their lineup.

That's not true Trevor. Laminate construction and Torsion Box are very different. All modern skis are not torsion derivatives.

 

Skis have been made as laminates from the time they started using multiple materials to assemble a ski. It's just layers of material stacked and glued. They were heavy!

 

Companies went to torsion box when they went to foam cores to lighten the ski. The box of fiberglass around the core allowed less weight but still offered edge hold. A foam core laminate would break easily.

 

Now that strong lightweight materials are common, companies are going back to laminates. Bottom line is they just flex and ski better. They still use torsion box for lower priced skis since they can keep the price down by using cheaper materials. AND yes some skis have torsion boxes with laminates above or below the torsion box, but not many.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[snorovr]

That makes sense. I read the patent from 1970 on torsion box ski construction and a lot has changed. Like you said modern materials have changed the game the most. The way I understood torsion box construction after reading the patent was that it refers to the materials surrounding the core material, and could include the topsheet and base materials. This is why I said that almost all skis could be considered of the "torsion box" construction. As I understand it now it means that there has to be some other material, like a fiberglass sleeve, around the core of the ski, but under the topsheet and base. Please enlighten...

[First Grade Teacher]

That makes sense. I read the patent from 1970 on torsion box ski construction and a lot has changed. Like you said modern materials have changed the game the most. The way I understood torsion box construction after reading the patent was that it refers to the materials surrounding the core material, and could include the topsheet and base materials. This is why I said that almost all skis could be considered of the "torsion box" construction. As I understand it now it means that there has to be some other material, like a fiberglass sleeve, around the core of the ski, but under the topsheet and base. Please enlighten...

You are correct, a torsion box has fiberglass all the way around the core. Laminate skis don't have fiberglass on the sides of the core, just above and below. Tecnically all torsion box skis are a torsion box with the top and base laminated to the box. I don't know how it would be possible to include the topsheet and base inside the box because then you would have a fiberglass base and topsheet.

[method9455]

Sounds to me like your shop is over buying twins. You have to carry what the customer will buy. Most customers will never ski switch so why would they want a twin? There are plenty of great non twins out there.

 

True, but you have to buy in January-March for the next season so you have to make a pretty big guess as to what will happen. We ramped up for twins a little faster than we should and you buy for the next year before you see the full result for this one, so it is quite easy to make a 2 year mistake on over buying them and hoping the trend will materialize. We were going 70/30 regular/twin and it wasn't working out.

[njskierbrig]

i am in the same boat as max and has anyone heard of the Dynastar Nothing But Trouble 08 model?

[snorovr]

i am in the same boat as max and has anyone heard of the Dynastar Nothing But Trouble 08 model?

 

Decent entry level twin, but most folks go for the Trouble Maker. I spent two seasons on TMs and absolutely love the ski. The NBT falls into the developing "pricepoint" twin-tip selection that just about every company is starting to offer. Skis in this genre are normally a cap construction ski that is inexpensive to make and has more basic technology. Anyone here skied the NBT?

[Justo8484]

Decent entry level twin, but most folks go for the Trouble Maker. I spent two seasons on TMs and absolutely love the ski. The NBT falls into the developing "pricepoint" twin-tip selection that just about every company is starting to offer. Skis in this genre are normally a cap construction ski that is inexpensive to make and has more basic technology. Anyone here skied the NBT?

havent skied it, but its the old TM with less fiberglass and no edge reinforcement underfoot. not at all a bad ski for its cost.