Robert2 Posted November 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2008 guys you are doing it all wrong if you don't buy the same name brand product as me you will freeze FACT This is about the science of insulation. You can wear a goose down jacket and be warm standing still on a bus stop in a New York winter but if you sweat from heavy exersion and soak the goose down it looses all insulation properties and you freeze. So companies like Padagonia created wicking garments that pull the sweat away from your skin and leave warm air pockets to insulate you from extreme cold. Heavy raw wool does the very same thing but itches shitless so we usually don't like to wear Irish fisherman sweaters snowboarding. Merino wool is very soft and has made its way into long underwear lines because it is warm when wet and does not itch like other wools. I didn't say YOU have to wear ANY product I wear. I said what works for me in the coldest temps wiith high winds. Since padagonia is so damn expensive it was nice to find a competition product that cost half as much as padagonia. Perhaps you have something to share how you stay outside sweating for 3 hours every day without freezing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mixilplix Posted November 8, 2008 Report Share Posted November 8, 2008 Perhaps you have something to share how you stay outside sweating for 3 hours every daywithout freezing. If your sweating for three hours you're missing one of the benifits of layering......Take a layer off so your not sweating....The goal is not to sweat! Doesn't JJ/BB run one or two demo days a year?..you're there every day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaldon Posted November 8, 2008 Report Share Posted November 8, 2008 I didn't say YOU have to wear ANY product I wear.I said what works for me in the coldest temps wiith high winds. Since padagonia is so damn expensive it was nice to find a competition product that cost half as much as padagonia. Perhaps you have something to share how you stay outside sweating for 3 hours every day without freezing. i think i might just have to start wearing no product for 3 hours a day just to prove that pa isn't that cold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHarrisburg Posted November 8, 2008 Report Share Posted November 8, 2008 Perhaps you have something to share how you stay outside sweating for 3 hours every daywithout freezing. I don't sweat because I don't wear hundreds of dollars of unnecessary layering when I go ride. Two quick things; one reason why you probably think everyone keeps trying to sell you "the most expensive board" is because the type of board you are looking for typically costs more than your traditional park board. It'd be like shopping for cars and thinking that everyone is trying to upsell you when you want to buy a sportscar. The second thing is I'd like to point out that you're talking to a lot of people who have much, much more experience and knowledge when it comes to the topics being discussed. There are plenty of people on this board who ski or snowboard 100+ days a season in places that have more than a 600 foot vertical drop. We've experienced almost every type of weather condition. Going into the lodge to warm up next to the fire is not an option and paying hundreds of dollars to get a locker at the resort is just plain silly so we plan ahead and know how to dress. I'd be willing to bet that you singlehandedly outspent most of us COMBINED when you compare money spent on base layers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaldon Posted November 8, 2008 Report Share Posted November 8, 2008 (edited) my base layers cost a total of 10 bucks R2 if you cant see how do you snowboard when it is fogy? Edited November 8, 2008 by zaldon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert2 Posted November 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2008 I don't sweat because I don't wear hundreds of dollars of unnecessary layering when I go ride. On the coldest of days I'm only wearing 3 very thin layers of insulation and then a shell. The shell has no insulation at all. Its just pockets. I sweat shitless very easily by doing very little, don't even have to do heavy work or play. I sweat just by putting on a suit and a tie. So I have to choose clothes that will stay warm even after they get wet. Layering then removing layers out on the hill is not an option when its freezing temps. thats a good way to catch pneumonia. The cost of the clothes is very misleading. I said I just a bought bunch of the stuff so I could have it all winter and never wear the same clothes any day without washing it. You don't wear gym clothes without washing it ? do you? I also said that it will last 10 years or more if my kids don't snarf it. I haven't bought this stuff for a long time. It just turned out to be time. So my clothes investment now will be for daily wear for a very very long time. Like I said before. I do wear the same layers for daily kayaking during the non-snowboarding months. Two quick things; one reason why you probably think everyone keeps trying to sell you "the most expensive board" is because the type of board you are looking for typically costs more than your traditional park board. It'd be like shopping for cars and thinking that everyone is trying to upsell you when you want to buy a sportscar. Could be very true. But then when I ask about weight range they immediately want to sell me a 166 which says they really don't get a lot of heavy people buying snowboards... alpine hardpack or park. Riding a 166 for me would be like riding a surfboard or a canoe. Just too big for my stance. The second thing is I'd like to point out that you're talking to a lot of people who have much, much more experience and knowledge when it comes to the topics being discussed. There are plenty of people on this board who ski or snowboard 100+ days a season in places that have more than a 600 foot vertical drop. We've experienced almost every type of weather condition. Going into the lodge to warm up next to the fire is not an option and paying hundreds of dollars to get a locker at the resort is just plain silly so we plan ahead and know how to dress. I'd be willing to bet that you singlehandedly outspent most of us COMBINED when you compare money spent on base layers. Sure. discuss. A discussion usually involves some sort of input. Not put downs and insults. I've been insulted a dozen time this week and I just figured some kid who wished they could snowboard as much as I do was trying to get under my skin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert2 Posted November 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2008 Doesn't JJ/BB run one or two demo days a year?..you're there every day. In the last 2 years the only demos I have seen have been for shredder boards and they were so worn out they didn't even have wax on them. I actually stopped by the tent to get "professional advice" about care and feeding of snowboards but the "rep" was no more than a part time kid signing out boards to try out. I wanted to know what pros used for wax and this kid said they don't bother waxing the boards because they get so beat to shit rail jamming. Oh well. I tried. So much for me asking pros. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHarrisburg Posted November 9, 2008 Report Share Posted November 9, 2008 I've been insulted a dozen time this week and I just figured some kid who wished theycould snowboard as much as I do was trying to get under my skin. ahahahahahahahahahahahaha oh plus that "part time kid" has probably forgotten more about snowboards that you'd ever know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mixilplix Posted November 9, 2008 Report Share Posted November 9, 2008 In the last 2 years the only demos I have seen have been for shredder boards andthey were so worn out they didn't even have wax on them. I actually stopped by the tent to get "professional advice" about care and feeding of snowboards but the "rep" was no more than a part time kid signing out boards to try out. I wanted to know what pros used for wax and this kid said they don't bother waxing the boards because they get so beat to shit rail jamming. Oh well. I tried. So much for me asking pros. What's a "shredder board"? Have you tried to Email any companies with your questions? If you want to check out some alpine snowboard stuff try bomberonline chrisklug.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toast21602 Posted November 9, 2008 Report Share Posted November 9, 2008 I've been insulted a dozen time this week and I just figured some kid who wished theycould snowboard as much as I do was trying to get under my skin. incorrect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaldon Posted November 9, 2008 Report Share Posted November 9, 2008 we insult because you refuse to listen when we try to give you helpful info, and you try to tell us that we are wrong about evrything... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick malozzi Posted November 9, 2008 Report Share Posted November 9, 2008 the attitude you have received has been in line with your demeanor. you've got to give respect before you can get respect, someone of your age should have learned that by now. not to mention that is especially true in the world of message boards, act like a n00b we'll treat ya like one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
method9455 Posted November 9, 2008 Report Share Posted November 9, 2008 (edited) Could be very true. But then when I ask about weight range they immediately want to sell me a 166 which says they really don't get a lot of heavy people buying snowboards... alpine hardpack or park. Riding a 166 for me would be like riding a surfboard or a canoe. Just too big for my stance. I'm not insulting you, but you definately either missed my post or dismissed it. So I'll post it again below. You have probably snowboarded more days than me in a year because I usually aim for about 30, but realistically I've sold 200-300 snowboards and 150-200 pairs of skis to people every year for 5 years. I have seen a countless number of people just like you that think because they snowboard or ski A LOT they know about the gear, but the two are mutually exclusive. You could be completely hobbled by your gear and you wouldn't know because you obviously haven't crossed the bridge and seen whats on the other side. The reason why we are all dismissing you out of hand is because you are so off the mark as to what gear you need or what gear anyone needs. Boards that list at $400 are crappy boards, that is the bottom line. Any advanced board is going to be over $500, period. Just be glad you don't ski because skis all list for over $700 for anything decent. The board only feels your weight, not your height. The height between the nose and the eyebrow is a quick rule of them for day rentals when it doesn't matter, but for buying a board, follow the design specs. Truthfully the "adult" boards are not designed for adults, they are designed for teenage-20 somethings because that is 90% of the snowboard market. I'm 20, I am 5' 11" at 180 lbs. My freeride board is a 159cm and my park board is a 153. My brother is more your weight, at around 220 lbs and he rides a 163 cm. That kind of exemplifies how much of a range is possible, 6 cm range is perfectly fine for me between the two boards. A 151 would probably do me fine for the park and I've ridden my brothers board and I can ride that too. I don't think you have to worry about "breaking" any of them, the boards are really durable. Me landing a jump wrong at 180 lbs is going to put many more times of force than even a 400 pound person on my board, and it survives me casing jumps all the time. What you really want is to get an ideal weight for the flex of the board. Based on you saying that you like to carve fast and stay on the ground, bigger is better. The only time bigger isn't better is for spinning and jumping. On the ground, length gives you stabilty, edge hold, and speed. Stiffness reduces chatter so it is easier on your knees and you skid out less often. Especially if you are in fact riding the Burton Air, which is a generally soft board, I would say the max size (i.e. 163cm or 165cm) is the right one for you. It will feel a lot different than your current board, in the fact that the radius of your turns will be much larger, but the board will be much more stable and faster. The really good news is that the largest sized boards are the ones least likely to sell during the season. Everyone picks up the small boards for park, and then there are just so many kids running around we clean out 151-157cm, but large boards like 159,161,163,165 are hard to sell. Both my 159 and my brothers 165 came out of my store at our tent sale. Mine was list $750 and I paid $200, his was list $650 and he paid $200, so large sizes are much better for deals and will fit you much better overall. Edited November 9, 2008 by Method9455 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert2 Posted November 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2008 I have seen a countless number of people just like you that think because they snowboard or ski A LOT they know about the gear, but the two are mutually exclusive. THIS IS THE REASON I POSTED THIS QUESTION about weight limits. I never ever said I think I KNOW anything about the products available now. I just said that when I shop I get no great info from the sales people and then I got shit for buying a year old Burton Air at the Army Navy store for $200. I'm open to all input. Especially if someone tells me a specific model of a specific brand. I did get a few things to chase down here... like NS..... but again... finding a dealer close enough to take a bus to is almost never a reality. I only chose Burton because is was a "trusted name brand". I have no real problem moving up to a longer board other than I'd have to relearn to ride the different length. If the longer board offers a better ride then I'd stick with it. If it sucked I'd just go back to the my 155s and 157s. And since I go every day its not like I'd be upset if it took a while to get used to a long board. Its sort of like ground hogs day around here. I have all the time in the world to try anything. What you really want is to get an ideal weight for the flex of the board. Based on you saying that you like to carve fast and stay on the ground, bigger is better. The only time bigger isn't better is for spinning and jumping. On the ground, length gives you stabilty, edge hold, and speed. Stiffness reduces chatter so it is easier on your knees and you skid out less often. Especially if you are in fact riding the Burton Air, which is a generally soft board, I would say the max size (i.e. 163cm or 165cm) is the right one for you. It will feel a lot different than your current board, in the fact that the radius of your turns will be much larger, but the board will be much more stable and faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert2 Posted November 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2008 What's a "shredder board"? Rail riding boards. Park boards that were so beat up I wondered how they present them as something to demo if they didn't take care of them. I thought the idea of demo was to see if you liked it so you would buy from that company. They didn't even care if the wax was totally gone. If you want to check out some alpine snowboard stuff trybomberonline chrisklug.com Thanks for the links. I've been to few web sites about carving and hard boots. I'd like to find an alpine board that I can use with soft boots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHarrisburg Posted November 10, 2008 Report Share Posted November 10, 2008 They didn't even care if the wax was totally gone. Probably because 95% of the people demoing the boards don't care about wether or not the board is waxed. They're more concerned with flex patterns and how the boards ride, not how fast they can go down a hill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julz m Posted November 10, 2008 Report Share Posted November 10, 2008 Did anyone else hear Don LaFontaine's voice in their head while reading that? no but i heard some inspirational music in the backround... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBS Posted November 10, 2008 Report Share Posted November 10, 2008 I'd like to find an alpine board that I can use with soft boots. http://www.donek.com/01_products/razor.htm Check out the lengths...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
method9455 Posted November 10, 2008 Report Share Posted November 10, 2008 Probably because 95% of the people demoing the boards don't care about wether or not the board is waxed. They're more concerned with flex patterns and how the boards ride, not how fast they can go down a hill. It is true that people don't think about the tune on their demo board, but the reality is that the tune has a huge influence on it. There is a big difference between the demo board that has the edge sharped more than once a week and the average rider who hasn't had their board in the shop in years. I love hearing people say "I demoed this board and it held so great on ice" and then you look at their board and the edges are rusty. I think demos are the best way to pick a board by far, but customers need to be aware that the tune on a demo board has a big impact on what you feel in regards to edge hold and that a high end tune on your current gear can be one of the best investments you can make in skiing/snowboarding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert2 Posted November 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2008 http://www.donek.com/01_products/razor.htm Check out the lengths...... THANK YOU Now this is acceptable damages. If a salesman in my local store showed me one of these and said $700 I would have bought it last month. The lengths are long but the 160 is still not past my forehead. I'm emailing them about weights. I didn't find and specs about weight ranges. 160 Razor 160 137 8.6 30.90 25.0 30.50 3.9 680 164 Razor 164 141 9.1 30.9 25.0 30.5 4.5 680 170 Razor 170 147 9.9 31.4 25.5 31.0 5.0 680 176 Razor 176 153 10.65 31.4 25.5 31.0 5.4 680 182 Razor 182 159 11.55 31.4 25.5 31.0 5.9 680 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBS Posted November 11, 2008 Report Share Posted November 11, 2008 I'm emailing them about weights. I didn't find and specs about weight ranges. The owner is Sean "Donek" and a super guy to deal with, he will probably be the person you end up talking to. Let him know what you're looking for, what have you ridden in the past and liked or disliked about it and of course your size. They do a ton of custom builds and with a little more carbon here and glass there they can tweak the board to suit your style. A custom board will not make you a better rider, but it is likely to make your riding experience more enjoyable. You didn't hear this from me, but Donek has been known to build prototypes and custom/special run boards for other manufactures (some from the Vermont area). Another plus...... made in the USA. Sales pitch over..... If you ever get a chance to ride at Blue, look me up, I'm always looking for more people to make turns with. Jesse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert2 Posted November 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2008 You should checkout Never Summer snowboards, I think they are perfect for what you are looking for. They don't list weight ranges on their website : Never Summer , but their boards are built to last and are stiffer and stronger than most boards on the market in comparable sizes. From their lineup I would checkout the Titan , Premier and Heritage. You would get away with riding these boards shorter and all Never Summer boards come with a three year warranty. I just found out that my son in-law has a Never Summer board. It is very likely I will get to try out this board in a week or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RideTILLiDIE Posted November 19, 2008 Report Share Posted November 19, 2008 (edited) I just found out that my son in-law has a Never Summer board.It is very likely I will get to try out this board in a week or two. Ok, Robert look, i'm about to go on a rant don Edited November 19, 2008 by TShannon720 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan- Posted November 19, 2008 Report Share Posted November 19, 2008 Ok, Robert look, i'm about to go on a rant don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toast21602 Posted November 19, 2008 Report Share Posted November 19, 2008 i was hoping this thread was dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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