WHERE is the best place to ski if you don't drive

[Robert2]

Where is the best early winter place to go on a ski trip if you do not drive?

I can get on a plane to go anywhere but once there... can't rent a car.

So what ski resorts are car-less friendly that will be close enough to an airport or AMTRACK train that they have shuttles or reasonable taxis and once there, not be screwed because you don't drive.

Sort of looking for some place to go before BB/JBFF/BLUE open at the end of November.

[AtomicSkier]

I was trying to think about how to get to VT early season without a car. Do any clubs around here run early season trips? Problem with public transportation to VT is that there are no large metro areas to allow you to get a train/bus to. Salt Lake City is problem the best way as the mountains are much closer and public transportation is abundant there to get to the mountains.

[toast21602]

SLC.

 

oh, and welcome back Robert2.

[Justo8484]

i've done slc at least three times now without a car. it's like $50 or something for an airport shuttle that will take you from the airport, stop wherever for groceries on the way, and then drop you off at your hotel/condo, and pick you back up for your return flight. once you're in the park city area, they have a great bus system that runs until around midnight and starts at like 7am, so theres really no need for a car. going in early november won't get you very much snow though.

[nick malozzi]

I've got buddies that have done it in SLC for sure. Another option would be Vail, as there is a small airport nearby that to my understanding is pretty much there to make it easier for people to ski there (and other nearby resorts). I'd have to think though that it would all be quite an investment to come all the way out here for what would more then likely be crappy conditions.

[phillycore]

Breckenridge could easily be done without a car.

November though?? I wouldn't

[Glenn]

Nearly any western resort will have some option for a (paid) shuttle to the local accomodations and a free shuttle to the mountain. With limited openings I don't see it as a great option though for the money. My opinion is you should get ahold of TTC6 and see if he would want to split costs and do a trip to NY or VT. Someone will open up early and he's game for that sort of thing.

[Dan-]

SLC is probably the easiest but your biggest problem is timing. November is still pretty early for even places out west. They really don't start getting good until January when most of the terrain is open. Going out west to just ride a few runs out of an entire mountain is just a waste of money in my opinion. Wait until Jan/Feb and head out. You'll be much happier.

[sibhusky]

I'd wait until November to decide about skiing in November, otherwise it's a total waste of money....

[Robert2]

I've got buddies that have done it in SLC for sure.

 

I'd have to think though that it would all be quite an investment to come all the way out here for what would more then likely be crappy conditions.

 

With limited openings I don't see it as a great option though for the money.

 

going in early november won't get you very much snow though.

 

November is way to early..the only places open that early are in the Colorado Front Range and odds are it will be a WROD..White Ribbon of Death..unless you luck out and get some early dumps.

 

 

OK.... not quite the yellow snow I was hoping for.

 

So how about some clarifications on what you guys are calling crappy conditions?

Keep in mind that my idea of good fast snowboarding surface is Pocono hardback, groomed

cord ice... with the possibility of snow cone granular or sweet and low ice dusting an inch or two

at best.

I'd ride blue ice any day before sticky ankle grabbing wet new snowfall.

I stay away from black diamonds and like the open road... like Exhibition and Lehigh at JF.

I'd figure I could find that kind of terrain at any resort out west.

 

What is WROD?

Does anyone actually know of any ski resorts out west that groom like JFBB does or

am I only going to find a "new" experience going out west and finding nothing but ungroomed

natural surfaces?

Understanding that out west the ski runs will be miles instead of hundreds of feet

I don't know what to expect of a ski resort to spend on burning fuel to groom miles of

slopes in November.

JF always groomed... to the last week day I went last year..they groomed...

but the bigger BLUE the TRUE neglected to groom and the surface was like dirty chunky sharp

volcanic ash.

Whats it like to ski out west? Great consistent grooming or just a total crap shoot every time you go?

 

As far as timing goes...I thought Vermont really does not open until close to our ski season here

so I wouldn't bother a VT trip when the Timmy bus will take me for my daily dose of the white stuff here.

I thought a trip out west would be a month before VT opens.... thats why I was asking for input.

[AtomicSkier]

OK.... not quite the yellow snow I was hoping for.

 

So how about some clarifications on what you guys are calling crappy conditions?

Keep in mind that my idea of good fast snowboarding surface is Pocono hardback, groomed

cord ice... with the possibility of snow cone granular or sweet and low ice dusting an inch or two

at best.

I'd ride blue ice any day before sticky ankle grabbing wet new snowfall.

I stay away from black diamonds and like the open road... like Exhibition and Lehigh at JF.

I'd figure I could find that kind of terrain at any resort out west.

 

What is WROD?

Does anyone actually know of any ski resorts out west that groom like JFBB does or

am I only going to find a "new" experience going out west and finding nothing but ungroomed

natural surfaces?

Understanding that out west the ski runs will be miles instead of hundreds of feet

I don't know what to expect of a ski resort to spend on burning fuel to groom miles of

slopes in November.

JF always groomed... to the last week day I went last year..they groomed...

but the bigger BLUE the TRUE neglected to groom and the surface was like dirty chunky sharp

volcanic ash.

Whats it like to ski out west? Great consistent grooming or just a total crap shoot every time you go?

 

As far as timing goes...I thought Vermont really does not open until close to our ski season here

so I wouldn't bother a VT trip when the Timmy bus will take me for my daily dose of the white stuff here.

I thought a trip out west would be a month before VT opens.... thats why I was asking for input.

 

VT first...Vermont usually opens pretty early. 2 years ago they opened on November 10th...Last year was November 2nd. You can definitely find skiing in VT earlier then in PA, and if you can get transportation there, it's your best bet.

 

If you want hard crusty snow, CO/UT/WY etc aren't the place for you. The "groomed" surface is truly packed powder except very early in the season when they actually have to blow snow, then you're more likely to find conditions there to be like the best conditions here

[jordan]

OK.... not quite the yellow snow I was hoping for.

 

So how about some clarifications on what you guys are calling crappy conditions?

Keep in mind that my idea of good fast snowboarding surface is Pocono hardback, groomed

cord ice... with the possibility of snow cone granular or sweet and low ice dusting an inch or two

at best.

I'd ride blue ice any day before sticky ankle grabbing wet new snowfall.

I stay away from black diamonds and like the open road... like Exhibition and Lehigh at JF.

I'd figure I could find that kind of terrain at any resort out west.

 

What is WROD?

Does anyone actually know of any ski resorts out west that groom like JFBB does or

am I only going to find a "new" experience going out west and finding nothing but ungroomed

natural surfaces?

Understanding that out west the ski runs will be miles instead of hundreds of feet

I don't know what to expect of a ski resort to spend on burning fuel to groom miles of

slopes in November.

JF always groomed... to the last week day I went last year..they groomed...

but the bigger BLUE the TRUE neglected to groom and the surface was like dirty chunky sharp

volcanic ash.

Whats it like to ski out west? Great consistent grooming or just a total crap shoot every time you go?

 

As far as timing goes...I thought Vermont really does not open until close to our ski season here

so I wouldn't bother a VT trip when the Timmy bus will take me for my daily dose of the white stuff here.

I thought a trip out west would be a month before VT opens.... thats why I was asking for input.

 

If you want long, low angle groomers in November, breck is probably the place to be. Peak 9 was practically made for people like you.

Any major destination ski resort out west grooms plenty of terrain, and grooms better than JFBB and Blue, so don't worry about that.

 

WROD is a white ribbon of death. This is a term used out west to describe places that rely on snowmaking to get open early in the season. It is a run with manmade snow, with no natural snow around it. Basically, it is what you find in PA all season long.

Edited September 24, 2009 by jordan

[Erin808]

Everything is groomed early season, plus its a lot of man-made to make it to that opening.

[Dan-]

There are plenty of groomed runs but this hard icy shit you keep talking about... Thats a bit harder to find as it's normally much softer and better.

[Johnny Law]

..and seriously if you want hard crusty snow..go to Vermont early season..Okemo would be my suggestion...they are a low intermediate groomers Paradise and they have great early season snowmaking..

 

Slowkemo or Bromley would be perfect, lots of low angle groomers to make any Pocono shuffler feel like Bode. Suicide Six actually has perhaps my favorite groomed trail in N.A., whatever that one is that comes straight down the hill is crazy fun.

 

Seriously though Europe would be perfect lots and lots of epicly long groomers all scrapped nice and hard by 6,000 drunk British tourists power wedging all 10 miles and 6,000 vert of it.

[Johnny Style]

It's going to be pretty hard to beat Aspen. The Roaring Fork Transit Authority (RFTA)is free for the places that you want to go to. Hard to beat free.

[Robert2]

Robert2 do you want to join me, Atomic Jeff and some other PASRs in Jackson Hole in January???

 

No thanks.

I've got my two season passes for JFBB and BLUE so I won't mind finding something to slide on here in PA

every week day this winter.

 

Also... new news here.... my wife demanded that I teach her to snowboard this winter.

That will put me on the snow on weekends this year like never before.

 

Funny thing about teaching spouses to ski....

over a decade ago ... when I was an instructor at BB.. the wise bosses in management laid out the

rule that NO INSTRUCTOR SHALL TEACH THEIR SPOUSE TO SKI.

 

It seemed that way too many guys would take their wife or girlfriend to the top of a black diamond

and give a little push and say "go honey".

So I never actually taught my wife how to snowboard back then.

Whats the steepest black diamond at Blue?

[sibhusky]

 

Also... new news here.... my wife demanded that I teach her to snowboard this winter.

That will put me on the snow on weekends this year like never before.

 

Funny thing about teaching spouses to ski....

over a decade ago ... when I was an instructor at BB.. the wise bosses in management laid out the

rule that NO INSTRUCTOR SHALL TEACH THEIR SPOUSE TO SKI.

 

It seemed that way too many guys would take their wife or girlfriend to the top of a black diamond

and give a little push and say "go honey".

So I never actually taught my wife how to snowboard back then.

Whats the steepest black diamond at Blue?

I have a cardinal rule, "thou shalt not teach an SO to ski." I think it rarely is a good idea. I think beginners are happier with other beginners. I think it is the rare relationship that can withstand the strain of ski instruction, it is SO wound up in emotion and self esteem. I think any "money saved" is totally canceled out by the tears and heartache that results. I've heard 100 times more failure stories than success stories when it comes to this that I wish you'd talk her out of it....

[jordan]

Robert2 do you want to join me, Atomic Jeff and some other PASRs in Jackson Hole in January??? You would be in heaven on some of the Apres Vous

who else is going? I seriously am contemplating it now. I haven't been to jackson since the 10th grade. Its time to go back...

[trackbiker]

You can get to Rutland via Amtrak and Killington has free shuttles from there. I don't think a lot of people other than visiting Europeans take advantage of it because you can get to Rutland a lot faster by car than by Amtrak. I would set it up with wherever you are staying so that they are expecting you. Once you get to Killington you can get everywhere on their free shuttle buses.

 

Do NOT try to teach your wife to snowboard! Super-G Racer has it right, it will only end in disaster. Sign her up for lessons at Blue. They have a separate slope for lessons. Let her take at least three and build up her confidence before you ride with her. You'll BOTH be better off!

[mbike-ski]

Do NOT try to teach your wife to snowboard! Super-G Racer has it right, it will only end in disaster. Sign her up for lessons at Blue. They have a separate slope for lessons. Let her take at least three and build up her confidence before you ride with her. You'll BOTH be better off!

x100 best for kids too - much more enjoyable for evrybody

[Robert2]

x100 best for kids too - much more enjoyable for evrybody

I'm not your average kid falling down the mountain.

I've had more than 5,000 rides down the hills at JF and BB in everything from boilerplate ice to

fresh powder without one crash.

 

I was a snowboard instructor for 5 years.

I've taught more than 1,000 people all ages from 10 to 55 years old how to snowboard.

I don't teach any half pipe or rail tricks, just how to stop and turn and ride.

You don't have to be a Burton sponsored mutant ginger jumping off cliffs to

make a shitload of money in snowboarding.

ALL beginners need lessons and way back when I was an instructor we got tipped

for giving lessons and no injuries.

I made more in tips every day than the hourly wage paid by BB.

 

I think what is boils down to is the weekend warrior who pays $50 for a lift ticket and

waits in weekend lift lines is going to be a little pissed off right out of the gate

and suck at teaching if his SO is keeping him from getting any real snow slide time just to teach a lesson. You could spend over $500 on rentals, lift tickets, lunch, clothes ..etc.... and never get to really ride more than a bunny slope if you took your SO out for the first time to learn to snowboard.

Since I have 5 days a week in zero crowds on the white stuff I'm not going to be pissed off like that guy.

When I teach I expect to never get away from the beginner areas.

Thats why I said last year that you guys can come find me in the PASR jacket... I won't be freeriding

when I have a beginner student on Friday nights.

 

Just because you ski or board does not make you a good instructor.

A lot of people take their friends out and just watch them fall.

Thats not a lesson.

I have a rigid structure lesson that I give the same way to everyone I teach and

the 1st half the lesson can be done on carpet in the lodge.

So when its 15 degrees outside and the newbie will freeze before mastering simple things like

strapping in, rolling over, getting up.....

its better to do that training indoors instead of having them flop around in the snow like a fish out of water.

 

Also a good thing to note is the sausage affect of tight clothes.

Dress your newbie and have the newbie sit on carpet and strap in BEFORE YOU GO TO THE SKI RESORT.

Note how tight the clothes are.

If your newbie is wearing a bunny suit and its impossible to touch her toes to strap in on carpet then don't expect any better outside on snow. Remove the bunny suit from the equation.

Wear over sized bib pants and a long jacket instead of tight form fitting clothes.

Practice on carpet the basic moves to roll over and get up.

If your newbie can't do a single push up then your newbie isn't going to get up on the snowboard

either.

Its good to find out these things before you are standing on the $500 ski resort investment.

If you can't do it on carpet today, at least you can do some push ups and other strength training

before the snow falls. GET IN SHAPE before going to the ski resort.

 

Beginner ski lessons are absolutely grueling.

Snowboarding lessons just a wee bit better.

Most standard ski resort beginner lessons start off in a nearly flat training area where they teach you how to walk and turn in skis and then play with a very slight hill for downhill control training.

BUT

then they make you walk up that hill.

It may only be 100 feet of slight incline but its still humping uphill in real tight plastic boots

and unwieldy skis.

It doesn't take very long for exhaustion to take over.

Once exhausted, the newbie starts to make mistakes, and you don't want to be making mistakes when

sliding down a hill.

Snowboarding lessons can be the same place, same hill, same humping up the hill, but

now the newbie on the snowboard has to drag this huge fat ass board up the hill without

chopping up themselves with the sharp edges or twisting a frail ankle.

Exhaustion is again your worst enemy.

So what to do for these wimps?

I like to start snowboard newbies off with quick release stepin FLOW bindings

and never make them walk up the hill dragging the snowboard on one foot.

The faster the newbie can get in and out of the board the faster they will run up that short hill

and learn how to ride and turn.

Its much easier to walk uphill than skate uphill for most out of shape newbies.

Of course we do teach them how to walk up a hill chopping ice with the board edge but don't make them

do it all the time.

It also helps to bring bottled water and power bars to the lessons.

I used to carry HERSHEYS KISSES and give them out for energy until a doctor I was teaching told me

that hard candy metabolizes much faster than chocolate.

I don't like hard candy because its a choking hazard while chocolate will melt if it goes down the wrong pipe.

 

Don't teach anyone to snowboard without providing armor.

Roller blade wrist guards, glove liners, and over sized mittens over the wrist guards.

Roller blade knee pads, worn over the base layer underwear and under the snow pants.

Roller blade elbow pads... under the winter jacket.

A snow sport helmet.

And finally....

a hip hockey check guard to protect hips and tail bone.

 

Once you wrap up the newbie in armor they become tough as a turtle and when they fall they

either bounce right back up or ask you to help flip them over first.

Each fall becomes a thrill rush instead of a day ender.

The most common injury on snow is a broken wrist.

You will put your hand out to break a fall and without armor you just end your day on the snow.

Armor up and forrrrrrrrgettttabout iit.

[nick malozzi]

i tired teaching an x of mine to ride... wasn't worth it at all. just complained the entire time and then gave me the cold shoulder in bed that night. pay for a lesson, your sex life will thank you.

[Robert2]

i tired teaching an x of mine to ride... wasn't worth it at all. just complained the entire time and then gave me the cold shoulder in bed that night. pay for a lesson, your sex life will thank you.

 

I already did pay for the lesson.

My wife thought the instructor didn't give shit about her crappy rental gear or ability level

so she walked off the lesson and hated the snow ever since.

 

last year someone said "picture or it never happened"

 

I found the staff picture... could be something like 1995 when face fur was not white:

 

[mbike-ski]

wow no crashes...hmmmm that doesn't sound too fun

 

anyway the point about the kids (spouses, friends etc.) wasn't questioning your abilities, just about the student/teacher realationship working way better with some distance between the two, not that it can't be done - i just think it's a better experience for both.

 

i do the same when coaching, i''l usually have my son work with one of the other coaches for one on one or small grooup stuff.