Down Vest Layer

[Glenn]

Totally unnecessary in this climate but I'm looking for a down vest to layer under a shell. I read a little about fill last night. I'm not a huge weight nazi, so I guess I don't need the most baller fill rating if the vest just has more insulation. Just looking for something to keep the core toasty. Any recommendations? General info about down?

[Dan-]

I'm not to sure of who makes them. Burton may have one. I'd go with a very light fill maybe 100. I wore a down jacket once out there and thought i was going to die i was so over heated.

[nick malozzi]

I'm a big fan of down. It has a bunch of downsides... is if it gets wet it is useless as an insulator like most organic material, and down takes a good bit of time to dry. That being said, I won't wear it as an insulating layer to snowboard in. Far too often do I get snow down my back, or start sweating heavily. Now, I'd certainly wear a down insulated shell as most are designed to take care of those issues with water proof fabrics etc. Most down vest have a slightly water resistant coating, but aren't really designed to get too wet. If you find one that is, it is going to be a much less flexible layer and feel bulkier. I'm a much bigger fan of a nice fleece layer. It handles moisture better and is a lot more comfortable.

 

Taking all this with a grain of salt though, people certainly do this on a regular basis. So it isn't a "Your an idiot if you do" situation. My advice would be to get a lightweight vest. Not because of the weight issues, but because it is going to fit as a layer nicer. The bulkier vests are not going to be very comfortable under a shell. In addition, the lightweight down stuff isn't just about being light. In my opinion the weight difference is negligible. The real benefit is packability. If your out in the BC and want to shed a layer, a lightweight down layer is going to fit into your pack WAY easier then some bulky layer.

 

Your other option, and in my opinion probably your best. Is to get a synthetic "Down Like" jacket. Something with Primaloft or a similar product. It will still keep you warm if it gets wet, and packs down almost as good as down. The other nice feature is that there are no down feathers in it to slowly pop through the fabric and fall out (yes that happens).

 

I know you're trying to keep it on the cheap, but I REALLY like my REI Spruce Run Jacket ( http://www.rei.com/product/785192 ). 150 bucks seems steep at first glance, but when you think about how many different ways it can be used the price seems cheap. It is a jacket and a vest. So you get two items for one. Synthetic, so it can handle getting a little wet. It packs down to be about the size of a Nalgene bottle (probably could get it smaller with a nicer stuff sack then what it comes with, and packs even smaller if you leave the sleeves at home). To give you an idea on warmth. I was wearing that, and a long sleeve non insulating synthetic shirt around at night during the Westwater trip. If I wear it and a tshirt to walk Buster in the morning and it is higher then 45 degrees I'm sweating by the end of the walk. It has ghetto arm pit vents, but this I mean you can just half unzip the sleeves and you can get a little vent action. I plan on wearing it if it gets SUPER cold this winter while riding, or if I'm in the BC to wear as a vest while hiking/shoeing. Compare it to similar MTN Harware, Patagucchi, etc brands competing items and it is almost half the price. Anyway, that is my lame ass plug. Even if you don't get it, maybe it can give you a baseline to go from.

 

</gear whore rant>

[Johnny Law]

Down is a super cool insulator light years better than the 99% of the synthetic stuff, Primaloft and co. can't lick down's ball sack.

 

Though like Malozzi said down on its own sucks major balls when it gets wet, all the sudden your oven gets turned off. Most decent company's now mix it with a water proof/resistant layer unless it is strictly for going under a shell. Oakley and Burton will fuck you over on the waterproofing so ignore their offerings. Additionally all down products loose down over time, baffling helps but your going to loose it in the end so don't go too crazy on price unless your taking baths in 100 dollar bills and such. Lastly all down products are all about the loft, you can pack down super small for bc backpack trips but you can't leave it like that or your kill the loft and hence the ability of the down to keep you warm.

 

If you want cheap I got a 20 buck down vest from Cabelas last year that is as warm as any other down vest, its just alot heavier than the techier stuff. Additionally it isn't baffled inside so the down tends to pile up in the shoulders and such but be thin in the elbows. For $20 though it was a hell of a good purchase. I have to imagine in your neck of the woods you can find something similar if not better.

 

The best of the best though as far as down is concerned is Western Mountaineering, no body makes down jackets and sleeping bags like they do. Their flash vest is 850 fill (sleeping outdoors in Antarctica stuff) and weighs 3.5 oz, I wouldn't say it looks good but no body is going to make a warmer lighter layer than WM. The Flash vest is $140 which is steep but I can't recommend their stuff enough, I spent one night in a friends Gore Tex Lynx sleeping bag and now don't want to sleep in anything else.

 

http://www.westernmountaineering.com/index.cfm?section=Products&page=Jackets%20%26%20Vests&viewpost=2&ContentId=61

 

As an aside I used to think nothing could keep you as warm as down and then my sister hooked me up with an Arcteryx Delta fleece. Its the %1 of synthetics that is up there with down. You look like a wookie but holy shit is this thing warm. Honest to god the first time you go outside and realize your wearing a tshirt and the fleece its 20 degrees out and your pulling the damn zipper down you'll realize its worth the insane price. Last year I remember hitting a really cold streak in VT, it was -10 or so and I was warm with just the fleece, jacket and tshirt. I believe the Patagonia R4 is very similar in function though it trades some warmth for wind protection.

[nick malozzi]

Down is a super cool insulator light years better than the 99% of the synthetic stuff, Primaloft and co. can't lick down's ball sack.

Down is without a doubt warmer. I agree 100% with you there. It is hard to compare the two though in a lot of instances because down's ability can also be affected a lot by the baffle set up and the other materials etc etc. I mainly go with the synthetics because then i don't have to worry about the moisture issue. One less thing for me to worry about. That all being said, I absolutely love my down sleeping bag, and will never go back to synthetic for sleeping.

 

Oh, and if you get down anything. Hang it inside out to dry. If there is any water proof coating it will be on the outside and not the inside. So as you sweat all day the interior will absorb the moisture into the down. If you toss it on the back of a chair or something right side out it will never fully dry out and the down will clump, creating cold spots. Do the same for your sleeping bag. I don't think it applies as much to synthetic bags, but it can't hurt. Finally, bags, vests, jackets, fucking anything with down or a synthetic insulation like that shouldn't be stored compressed. It is only going to hurt its ability to keep you warm. Let em hang out and breathe.

[sibhusky]

All I can say is I spent 21 years trying to find some jacket to keep Siblet warm in the winter, finally did it last year with a system from Eddie Bauer, the 365 system that had a down layer to choose from. First time she didn't bitch when I wanted to stay outside.