THANK GOD!

[AtomicSkier]

all? think about the people you ski with...

 

[toast21602]

 

good. now keep thinking.

[Nidecker]

I hope the roving instructors teach all the park rats how to ski.

 

Now that I think about it. Any "Park Rat" that can throw some pretty remarkable stuff are substantial Riders.

 

I think learning how to Ride Park made me into a great Outside the Park Rider.

 

Thats why I went into Park, Regular riding wasn't pushing me to the limits anymore and I wanted something more to strive for.... Over all to make me a better Snowboarder.

[AtomicSkier]

good. now keep thinking.

 

Tretiak?

[snorovr]

Exactly my point. PSIA certified doesn't mean shit, BTW. I've seen the instructors at Blue work on their tandem synchronized skiing down Challenge at Blue. I hope they teach them that during their certifcations.

 

And BTW R2,a MedEvac is going to run you way more then $10k from Blue to LVH

 

PSIA does mean something if you do want to make a living teaching skiing at many areas. Good luck trying to apply for an instructing job at many mountains and trying to make semi-decent money for the season without a PSIA cert. Many of the mountains out West have a pay scale based upon PSIA cert levels. ie. if you are a PSIA Level II and have a regular lesson, you are paid a certain amount per lesson. If you are a PSIA Level II and get a private request, there is a certain amount you make. Same with Level I and II. Also, many director/management positions want at least a PSIA Level II or they won't even look at your app. If nothing else, PSIA clinics actually do teach really effective ways to communicate tips on technique to students that I've personally seen make a difference. I don't really know what a lot of people have against lessons with a higher level instructor. You don't get that same attitude out west. I know a lot of very high level skiers on the west coast that take a lesson every year and every time they come away with something new. Who are the true haters?

 

I've seen people at Blue try to rack up as much vert as they can while skiing terribly. Everyone gets their kicks in different ways...

 

 

Agreed on the medivac... Ask Sobey...

[method9455]

PSIA does mean something if you do want to make a living teaching skiing at many areas. Good luck trying to apply for an instructing job at many mountains and trying to make semi-decent money for the season without a PSIA cert. Many of the mountains out West have a pay scale based upon PSIA cert levels. ie. if you are a PSIA Level II and have a regular lesson, you are paid a certain amount per lesson. If you are a PSIA Level II and get a private request, there is a certain amount you make. Same with Level I and II. Also, many director/management positions want at least a PSIA Level II or they won't even look at your app. If nothing else, PSIA clinics actually do teach really effective ways to communicate tips on technique to students that I've personally seen make a difference. I don't really know what a lot of people have against lessons with a higher level instructor. You don't get that same attitude out west. I know a lot of very high level skiers on the west coast that take a lesson every year and every time they come away with something new. Who are the true haters?

 

I've seen people at Blue try to rack up as much vert as they can while skiing terribly. Everyone gets their kicks in different ways...

 

 

Agreed on the medivac... Ask Sobey...

 

My hangup on the instructor is money. By the time you tip the guy you've spent >$125 for a few hours. I've done two private lessons since I got "good" at snowboarding and I'm going to take at least two for skiing this year, but it is a big investment. I learned a great deal in those lessons but two lessons is equal to what I've paid for a season pass each of the last 5 years. If I could pay someone $50-75 directly for instruction and cut out the mountain as the middle man I absolutely would.

[snorovr]

My hangup on the instructor is money. By the time you tip the guy you've spent >$125 for a few hours. I've done two private lessons since I got "good" at snowboarding and I'm going to take at least two for skiing this year, but it is a big investment. I learned a great deal in those lessons but two lessons is equal to what I've paid for a season pass each of the last 5 years. If I could pay someone $50-75 directly for instruction and cut out the mountain as the middle man I absolutely would.

 

 

I agree with Kevin...if I ever wanted a lesson..I would hire someone direct and cut the mountain out of it..

 

Definitely agreed. I don't know why that style of instruction isn't quite as prevalent here in the states. I think you can find more of those services on the west coast, and I know that there are private ski schools that operate out of cities close by to mountains(generally based out of a sporting goods store). When you go to Chamonix or elsewhere in Europe, you're hotel can set you up with a 'guide' who is usually certified in instruction, first aid, and of course guiding. Its the closest thing I've seen to what you guys describe.

[Robert2]

Why would somebody tip $50 on a $75 private lesson....that is 66%....I thought $10-$20 would be more appropriate...and I think the instructors make more than their $8 an hour minimum wage when they are teaching privates..

ITs not about THE PERCENTAGE you dumphuq.

Its about what you consider the value of the knowledge learned in the lesson from a person

who made $50 worth of effort to keep YOU alive for an hour and teach you how to stay alive EVERY TIME YOU COME BACK TO PLAY ON THE ICE.

So if you spend $200 on instruction and tips this year and then get to play on the snow

200 times in the coming years you will think it was $200 well spent.

 

 

There are lots of private instructors not affiliated in any way with specific mountains.

Its really just up to you to find them.

All the ski resorts want the skiers to be safe and ski in control so there never is any

rule that says you can't bring your own instructor to their mountain.

If you learn to ski, you will be back to buy another lift ticket, with your kids too someday, so they don't care who teaches you.

[Johnny Law]

post

 

You make it sound like we all participate in some kind of death sport..lulz

 

Snow sports are a pretty safe sport for the most part, shit look at any hill in this area and most of the people are complete idiots yet 99% of them go home in one piece.

 

Regardless of the inherent danger in the sport the amount of instruction you have only really plays a part in your chance of injury at the beginning of the process. I'd bet the percentage injured is pretty close between noobs and the ultra talented, the noobs don't know what their doing and the ultra talented are really pushing the envelope.

[method9455]

ITs not about THE PERCENTAGE you dumphuq.

Its about what you consider the value of the knowledge learned in the lesson from a person

who made $50 worth of effort to keep YOU alive for an hour and teach you how to stay alive EVERY TIME YOU COME BACK TO PLAY ON THE ICE.

So if you spend $200 on instruction and tips this year and then get to play on the snow

200 times in the coming years you will think it was $200 well spent.

 

 

There are lots of private instructors not affiliated in any way with specific mountains.

Its really just up to you to find them.

All the ski resorts want the skiers to be safe and ski in control so there never is any

rule that says you can't bring your own instructor to their mountain.

If you learn to ski, you will be back to buy another lift ticket, with your kids too someday, so they don't care who teaches you.

 

I agree that the instructor deserves more than $8 an hour. In other sports an instructor will get $50-150 an hour for a private lesson (example: golf, tennis, sailing). But that is going 100% to the instructor. The problem is that out of my pocket if I give the instructor a $50 tip, I'm paying like $125 an hour. The last time I got a lesson was at Mount Snow and I got a recommendation for a specific instructor, went 2 out of 3 days to the guy for an hour each time and it was money very well spent. But the time before that somehow I got in on a 3 person lesson in PA and it was a complete waste of time and money. So it is $125 for a chance at a good lesson - for an hour.

 

Coming from the guy who was choosing boards based on <$100 price difference between different models/stores I'm absolutely sure you would not be taking this side of this argument if you hadn't been an instructor once. Guess what, everyone thinks their work is valued higher than the market says. The reason why so few people take private lessons is because they are over priced. When I think about a lesson I want to go out for 2, 3 hours at a clip, multiple times. Go out for an hour with a guy one year, and then an hour with another guy the next year is not going to improve me enough to make it worth the money.

[snorovr]

one thing about lessons is you have to ski slower which is something I'm not willing to do..

 

Its easy to ski fast, skiing slow is what teaches you the most. Become better at skiing well slower, and you'll become way faster when that time comes...

[Robert2]

Coming from the guy who was choosing boards based on <$100 price difference between different models/stores I'm absolutely sure you would not be taking this side of this argument if you hadn't been an instructor once. Guess what, everyone thinks their work is valued higher than the market says. The reason why so few people take private lessons is because they are over priced.

 

Leave that board discussion out of this topic.

I had not bought a new board in 10 years and was looking for input when that zoo errupted.

 

Loooooong before I was an instructor there were ski instructors being paid $50 tips.

When I was an instructor I got tips daily between $20 and $50.

Now it seems tipping was lost on this new breed of poor skater rat kid that can't afford lunch, let alone a lesson..... so forget about tipping.

 

ALL private instruction, all person to person services, I don't care what it is or where you are, when you get personal service you can make the choice to tip according to how much YOU

valued that personal service.

How do you place a dollar value on your personal safety?

I don't care if the ski resort charges $75 for the lesson.

Its not about the ski resort finding you that instructor and reserving a time slot.

Tipping is about your personal achievements during your time with that instructor.

 

 

Sure times are tough, more people are scraping to get by, but , that doesn't change the fact that if you do have the means to ski and do have the means to pay for proper instruction, then

don't forget to tip the instructor.

Without tipping , sooner or later ski instructors will be giving the same kind of service

you get at the LEHIGH PUB.

[method9455]

Leave that board discussion out of this topic.

I had not bought a new board in 10 years and was looking for input when that zoo errupted.

 

Loooooong before I was an instructor there were ski instructors being paid $50 tips.

When I was an instructor I got tips daily between $20 and $50.

Now it seems tipping was lost on this new breed of poor skater rat kid that can't afford lunch, let alone a lesson..... so forget about tipping.

 

ALL private instruction, all person to person services, I don't care what it is or where you are, when you get personal service you can make the choice to tip according to how much YOU

valued that personal service.

How do you place a dollar value on your personal safety?

I don't care if the ski resort charges $75 for the lesson.

Its not about the ski resort finding you that instructor and reserving a time slot.

Tipping is about your personal achievements during your time with that instructor.

 

 

Sure times are tough, more people are scraping to get by, but , that doesn't change the fact that if you do have the means to ski and do have the means to pay for proper instruction, then

don't forget to tip the instructor.

Without tipping , sooner or later ski instructors will be giving the same kind of service

you get at the LEHIGH PUB.

 

But that is really a ski industry specific thing and it is ass backwards. If I want a tennis coach, I go to the local pro shop and pick up a business card and pay him direct. There is no tip because I'm putting $75 in his pocket as the cost of the lesson. When I want a sailing coach I call up someone from the local club and pay him $50 an hour direct in his pocket. Same goes for golf I'm sure.

 

I feel like the mountain should take $75, give $50 of it to the instructor and take $25 for themselves, and you shouldn't have to tip. That would be reasonable. I do think the guy deserves $40 or $50 for his time and his skill, but I don't want to pay $125 so that the guy can make $58.

[k2king]

Any moron with poor technique can mask it all with speed and "manufacture" something that isn't really there. Let's see you slow down and watch your world and crumble in front of your eyes. I guarantee any PSIA Level II could show you a few drills that would highlight your lack of skills and give you something to think about...

[AtomicSkier]

Any moron with poor technique can mask it all with speed and "manufacture" something that isn't really there. Let's see you slow down and watch your world and crumble in front of your eyes. I guarantee any PSIA Level II could show you a few drills that would highlight your lack of skills and give you something to think about...

 

How long have you been an instructor at Blue?

[Justin]

ITs not about THE PERCENTAGE you dumphuq.

Its about what you consider the value of the knowledge learned in the lesson from a person

who made $50 worth of effort to keep YOU alive for an hour and teach you how to stay alive EVERY TIME YOU COME BACK TO PLAY ON THE ICE.

So if you spend $200 on instruction and tips this year and then get to play on the snow

200 times in the coming years you will think it was $200 well spent.

 

 

There are lots of private instructors not affiliated in any way with specific mountains.

Its really just up to you to find them.

All the ski resorts want the skiers to be safe and ski in control so there never is any

rule that says you can't bring your own instructor to their mountain.

If you learn to ski, you will be back to buy another lift ticket, with your kids too someday, so they don't care who teaches you.

Dude, you're making it like without a lesson you're gonna legit die, which may be true for some people, but nobody on this messageboard. For someone coming with nothing to the hill, a $50 tip might be appropriate, but for any of us $50 on top of a $75 lesson is just ridiculous. Maybe I'm just seeing things differently because I've only had one lesson in my life (snowboarding one was I was 6), but I wouldn't want to shell out $125 for $75 worth of instruction.

[method9455]

Dude, you're making it like without a lesson you're gonna legit die, which may be true for some people, but nobody on this messageboard. For someone coming with nothing to the hill, a $50 tip might be appropriate, but for any of us $50 on top of a $75 lesson is just ridiculous. Maybe I'm just seeing things differently because I've only had one lesson in my life (snowboarding one was I was 6), but I wouldn't want to shell out $125 for $75 worth of instruction.

 

Yea right, I'm not going to die on the hill in a lesson. None of us are going for private lessons for safety reasons.

 

Another example - I took some rock climbing lessons. 6 hours for my girlfriend and I, and I paid like $250-300 including equipment. We were total noobies but the guy teaching us was like 50 and was ridiculously good at it, so we didn't have some kid. Again that's $50 an hour.

 

Climbing is just as dangerous as skiing. I've spent 1/20th of the time climbing that I have skiing yet I've had a rock climbing injury and only 3 or 4 skiing injuries of the same magnitude.

[crazex]

I've never been one to appreciate lessons. I had golf lessons and they sucked..I just wanted to play...same with skiing..the beginner first time on skis thing was the only ski lesson I ever took..and people always tell me to put my hands forward when skiing because I never thought about my hands. Anyway I think it would be cool to have an all day private lesson with a guide at Jackson Hole..I will say that some of them are seriously 10+ skiers just from a pure grace and efficiency standpoint..one thing about lessons is you have to ski slower which is something I'm not willing to do..

 

I agree, I've never been one to appreciate lessons either. However, the advanced lessons, that Jackson Hole offers, are top notch. I took the lvl 6 snowboard lesson, I think they call it Mountain Riders now, a few years ago. It was a "group" class, but limited to a max of 4 people, and it was a whole day. A big plus is that everyone in Jackson seems to be all about racking up their vert everyday, so the lessons are rarely full. Especially if you take the lesson on a weekday/non-holiday. My lesson only had 2 people(including myself), so it was essentially a private lesson. I tipped my instructor $50 after this lesson. The lesson was probably worth more than that tip, but I only had $50 in the wallet that day. The next time I go back to Jackson, I'll definitely be taking another lesson.

 

Over the past two years, I've started to take up skiing again, and I wish that one of the PA mountains offered quality lessons. I guess it is too much to ask for them to have instructors who are as experienced as those from JHMR. I won't pay for a ski lesson, at Blue, as I don't think some 16 year old kid will be able to help me with much.

 

 

-Jon-

[Justo8484]

slow and deliberate turns is ghey...

 

run that through your mind when you're picking your way down a sketchy line out in jackson later this winter when every little movement you make could have a very big affect on how you make it to the bottom of the hill.

[sexkitten]

I agree with Kevin...if I ever wanted a lesson..I would hire someone direct and cut the mountain out of it..

 

So two questions... when are you available and do we have to ski the whole time?

 

 

So much good info and arguments. Great!

[Freeski919]

Why would somebody tip $50 on a $75 private lesson....that is 66%....I thought $10-$20 would be more appropriate...and I think the instructors make more than their $8 an hour minimum wage when they are teaching privates..

 

No,we don't make any more during a private. And as seasonal employees, many of us don't even make that $8 an hour you're talking about. You've spent a lot of this thread bashing on instructors and 'industry people'. Get a clue. There are plenty of instructors who will kick your ass on skis

[Mixilplix]

I taught snowboarding for about 14 years and never got paid more than $10/hour for a private lesson(most of the time less).It really is kinda dumb to get lessons through the ski school,when with a little effort you can hire somwone direct(for any level of skiing/riding)

The one thing that was great about ski school was it got you introductions(mostly with parents).If there kids had a great time skiing/riding with you, you knew they would probably come back and ask for you.Many of these parents would tip rather well.(many of these lessons were for more than an hour also)If you got lucky you would get a couple of these a year.There were a couple of years I made $$$$$$ in tips.I would do plenty of lessons outside of ski school at other mountains too.

So if you are really interested in lessons I don't think it would be too hard to find a qualified instructor..Do your research.....

[AtomicSkier]

No,we don't make any more during a private. And as seasonal employees, many of us don't even make that $8 an hour you're talking about. You've spent a lot of this thread bashing on instructors and 'industry people'. Get a clue. There are plenty of instructors who will kick your ass on skis

 

At Blue Mountain? Get real. Maybe a few, but most can't ski. They might be able to teach, but they can't ski. They practice synchronized skiing, that's about the best skiing I've ever seen an instructor do.

[Justo8484]

At Blue Mountain? Get real. Maybe a few, but most can't ski. They might be able to teach, but they can't ski. They practice synchronized skiing, that's about the best skiing I've ever seen an instructor do.

 

there are a bunch that are not psia certified. i've never taken the psia tests, so i can't vouch for what they teach you during that, but there are definitely some instructors up there who can ski pretty well. the instructor training course was a huge waste of my time, but i had already had instructor training for other sports when i took it, so maybe that's why. being a good skier and being able to teach someone how to ski aren't always the same thing. there's plenty of NFL or NBA or MLB coaches who played, but never made it to the pro level, and are now great coaches.

[Robert2]

Someone said here that the people reading this forum don't need lessons.

 

You never know who reads this forum and anyone who wants to try skiing or snowboarding

who pokes around the internet may end up here reading this forum.

 

The winters in PA don't give us deep powder for 4 months so our ski resorts manufacture

a slab of ice that they groom daily to make it have a sugar or corduroy coating.

Call it Pocono Hardpack or nick name it anything else , this does not change the fact that

if you don't know how to ride on it you will get injured.

So lessons are very important for beginners.

How you get that lesson is up to you and if you think your best bud with the skater rat

moves in the park is going to teach you how to ride in control on even the baby hills then you get what you paid for.

The rest of us pay for lessons from a qualified instructor.

 

Our snow isn't 3 feet of Utah champaign powder.

Hell... when it snows 3 feet here we declare a state of emergency and you aren't even allowed to

get on the turnpikes.

So forget comparing our tiny piss ant hills with Vermont or out west.

We don't get snow.

We get groomed ice.

This base surface can be as hard as concrete at times.

There is no just giving up while riding out of control and diving face first

off the snowboard like you can do when you go surfing in the ocean.

Surfer dudes come play on the snow and get the worst injuries.

They have to learn that diving face first into a block of ice will knock you out.

The best way to avoid breaking bones on this ice is to learn how to ride on this ice.

There are no second chances.

Get it way wrong once and you are a stain on a tree.

 

So YES you need to take a lesson and if you don't learn in that lesson then take another

lesson until you can ride in control.

Speaking of control.... if you run someone over and they bleed.. YOU are responsible and

can be sued for damages and medical bills.

Being out of control is not an excuse for hurting anybody.

Your lift ticket is a contract with the ski resort that says you understand you can't sue

the ski resort, but that does mean you are not liable for hurting somebody else.

 

The most common injury on the snow is a broken wrist.

Every year I witnessed a fall, a broken wrist, a ski patrol rescue, and an ambulance

extraction out of Blue or Jack Frost.

These were people who were "never evers".

Kids who never skied before and never took lessons and never wore armor.

I've seen kids do inverted flights and pile drive their skulls on the jumps

at JF and then get to have that really cool medovac lifeflight ride for a broken neck.

 

So telling people they don't need lessons and they don't need helmets and wristguards

and kneepads is not the way to make more new skiers.

 

As far as lesson cost and qualified instructors go ...its going to be a real crapshoot

no matter who teaches you.

You can pay the highest price for a private lesson and wind up with the worst instructor

for you. Just because we are all people and not one of us will be perfect for all of us.

 

THE BEST WAY TO PAY LESS FOR LESSONS is go midweek, Monday,Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday

during the day and pay the cheapest price for a group lesson.

The ski resorts here in PA are empty, ghost town empty, during midweek day time skiing.

So when you pay for that cheap group lesson you get to go out to the ski school lesson area

and instead of you being in some big group lesson you can wind up ONE ON ONE with your own instructor.

 

And remember to tip your instructors.

I don't care if its a group lesson or a private lesson.

You are getting service from someone getting paid minimum wage to baby sit

you on a block of ice and keep you from getting hurt.

Thats got to be worth something to you.

Its worth $50 to me.