Terrain Expansions?

[Ride Delaware ?]

As I was looking at PASR this afternoon, the Blue Mountain Construction thread caught my eye. This being said, does anyone here foresee the ACTUAL possibility of large scale terrain expansion anywhere in the Pocono region? Since Camelback and Elk both added new lifts and trails in 1994, most of the terrain changes seem to be a single trail here or there on the same footprint of the existing mountain area. Will anyone actually expand the mountain area, or will we continue to see infrastructure improvements with lift replacements, snowmaking upgrades, building upgrades, and a single trail or two being added?

 

What are your thoughts?

[rgrwilco]

i think the difficulty of getting expansions approved are holding some back, as well as the cost of additional snowmaking. also, where to expand may be an issue.

 

bear creek, for example, does not have anywhere to expand to, and i think the same could be said for boulder.

 

Frost looks like they have a bit of room for some really steep stuff past east mountain, but not much before it levels out.

 

elk being a single peak, i do not really see that happening. blue and camelback would probobly be the most likely to expand, as they draw large crowds. but with the topography of PA areas, i really don't see expansions being viable. they would just add cost, and would be more of the same type of skiing and riding already in place.

Edited August 13, 2010 by turd ferg

[Switchsideskier.]

I personally don't see too much terrain expansion in the near future. I believe most mountains are focusing on other things such as re-designing the lodges, lifts, ski school areas etc, and adding water parks to make the experience better. It would have been awesome if the ski resort proposed for Eldred township out near Kunkletown about 5 miles East of Blue Mountain would have went through, except the company went bankrupt.

[AngryHugo]

yeah, how long did it take Blue to open Dreamweaver and Nightmare? 8 years?

[Schif]

Not in this day and age when any kind of earth moving project takes more freaking paperwork and approvals and designs and studies and everything else before you can even begin cutting down a single tree. I can only imagine that the work it would take to acquire and develop more land could never be justified to add some more trails.

[Johnny Law]

There really never has been any real money is skiing at the resort level. It always has been mostly a complicated real estate scheme so until resorts figure out a way to make money from actual skiing you won't see any real terrain expansion anywhere.

[toast21602]

if anybody has the capabilities of worthwhile trail additions in the area its Blue. You would be surprised how much freakin' terrain they own.

[RidgeRacer]

Elk Mountain itself actually has 2 peaks (north knob and south knob). Right now the ski area is on the North knob. I'm not sure who owns the land on the south knob but if that was ever developed (not that it'll ever happen) it could be pretty huge by PA standards.

 

Blue obviously could expand since the ridge goes on for miles. And I read (I think it was here) that there were actual plans at one point to expand Jackson Frost past East Mt...not sure if those plans are still on the table or not though.

Edited August 14, 2010 by PA Ridge Racer

[Shadows]

kind of going off johnny laws negative attitude...

ive worked at camelback, and ive worked at blue. i feel like those are the two biggies in PA. and after all my 'experience' i can safely say no one gives a shit about skiing anymore. they want skrilla. everyone who really cares about skiing is trying to be too serious about a place that isnt and gets you no where.

[trackbiker]

I thought there was talk of expanding to the east when Blue put in the Six-Pack. They supposedly saved the double chair they took down for future expansion to the east of Paradise. It always seemed to me the HSQ was designed so that there would eventually be a trail when you turned left as you got off. But that was all when Ray Tuthill was still alive. Seems like plans now are to expand attractions for the other three seasons of the year. I think it took them 3 yrs. to add one trail after they put in the Six-Pack. It may eventually happen but I think there are other priorities now.

 

As far as Elk is concerned, I think they would put in a high speed four or six in front of the lodge before they add any new trails. Elk is a well run ski area and they seem to have a good formula of making small improvements every year as opposed to going into debt to make major ones that would take a long time to pay off or maybe bankrupt them in a bad year. Best skiing in PA. Don't let the "slow" lifts keep you away. They run their fixed grip lifts at the top speed allowed by law and the terrain is worth the wait. When you take into account the long lines for the high speed lifts at Camelback and Blue, you probably can get to the top faster at Elk on a weekend and the terrain is much better and doesn't get skied off as fast, if at all.

I still don't understand why hoards of people will stand 10 or 15 or more minutes in line for a "fast" 4 minute lift when they could sit on a "slow" lift and be at the top in 8. I miss the old double at Blue.

[RidgeRacer]

As far as Elk is concerned, I think they would put in a high speed four or six in front of the lodge before they add any new trails. Elk is a well run ski area and they seem to have a good formula of making small improvements every year as opposed to going into debt to make major ones that would take a long time to pay off or maybe bankrupt them in a bad year. Best skiing in PA. Don't let the "slow" lifts keep you away. They run their fixed grip lifts at the top speed allowed by law and the terrain is worth the wait. When you take into account the long lines for the high speed lifts at Camelback and Blue, you probably can get to the top faster at Elk on a weekend and the terrain is much better and doesn't get skied off as fast, if at all.

I still don't understand why hoards of people will stand 10 or 15 or more minutes in line for a "fast" 4 minute lift when they could sit on a "slow" lift and be at the top in 8. I miss the old double at Blue.

 

I really need to get back up there this season. The East side at Elk alone is worth it. Trails like Slalom, Tuscarora, Mohawk and Iroquois are great runs. Tunk is the best bump run probably south of the Catskills (maybe even south of Vermont). The only thing missing is dedicated tree skiing. Then it would really feel like skiing in VT. But that's for another thread I guess.

[phillycore]

IMO....

 

Jack Frost would be the most likely to do it, although not cost effective to do so at this point and limited on terrain. More likely to see lifts or lights before any major expansion.

 

Blue has the most ability to do it and the biggest need to do it (over crowding) it would also make the most sense to expand. Although they are more likely to focus on making more coin in the summer, or via tubing.

 

Boulder - pointless to do anything there except expand park type things on current terrain.

 

Camelback - Seriously, it's a circus there.

 

Sno, Elk - not cost effective.

[Switchsideskier.]

I thought there was talk of expanding to the east when Blue put in the Six-Pack. They supposedly saved the double chair they took down for future expansion to the east of Paradise. It always seemed to me the HSQ was designed so that there would eventually be a trail when you turned left as you got off. But that was all when Ray Tuthill was still alive. Seems like plans now are to expand attractions for the other three seasons of the year. I think it took them 3 yrs. to add one trail after they put in the Six-Pack. It may eventually happen but I think there are other priorities now.

 

When I worked Blue last year I asked about the old challenge chair, as we all know the chairs are now on the Main Street and Vista chairs, but "Supposedly" and this is not my word, just something I heard, that when the condos are completed at the Summit, (When you pull in the Main lodge access road, dirt road on the left) they are running that chair to the condos, therefore also replacing the chairs, for VIP Condo access, which really makes no sense, unless they would allow downhill lift access....

 

Anywhoooo

 

Hope everyone is having an awesome summer

Edited August 14, 2010 by Switchsideskier.

[Freeski919]

Blue absolutely has tons of room to expand, that's no doubt. They own the land to the east of Paradise for a mile or two down the ridge line. The problem that develops is that once you expand past Paradise, you're looking at a significant amount of infrastructure to make it viable. More lifts, probably another lodge in the valley. Blue definitely won't be getting into that anytime in the next five years. The water park is going to be the major capital improvement Blue does in the near future. I managed to eavesdrop on one of the water park design companies pitching to Barb at the end of last season. This thing is going to be massive. From there, the longer term plan is to completely level and replace the entire Valley lodge, and moving pretty much everything down there. Then they'll level the Summit Lodge and rebuild that from scratch too, and the redistribute the services between the two. Along with that, they'll be building the condos. All in all, you're looking at the 10 year development plan for Blue. Blue won't have any new trails when it turns 50.

[Switchsideskier.]

Blue absolutely has tons of room to expand, that's no doubt. They own the land to the east of Paradise for a mile or two down the ridge line. The problem that develops is that once you expand past Paradise, you're looking at a significant amount of infrastructure to make it viable. More lifts, probably another lodge in the valley. Blue definitely won't be getting into that anytime in the next five years. The water park is going to be the major capital improvement Blue does in the near future. I managed to eavesdrop on one of the water park design companies pitching to Barb at the end of last season. This thing is going to be massive. From there, the longer term plan is to completely level and replace the entire Valley lodge, and moving pretty much everything down there. Then they'll level the Summit Lodge and rebuild that from scratch too, and the redistribute the services between the two. Along with that, they'll be building the condos. All in all, you're looking at the 10 year development plan for Blue. Blue won't have any new trails when it turns 50.

 

I understand that they would want to completely level the Summit lodge, but why would they add a massive expansion right now, and then level it down the road?

[Freeski919]

I understand that they would want to completely level the Summit lodge, but why would they add a massive expansion right now, and then level it down the road?

 

From what I've seen of the construction pictures, it doesn't look like a massive expansion, it looks like they're redoing the courtyard outside the lodge. Any improvements the do now will probably fit in with the new lodge. I could see them building a whole new lodge where School Hill is now, then levelling the old lodge. Heck, the way the mountain is laid out, moving the lodge a hundred yards uphill isn't too bad of an idea.

[Switchsideskier.]

Why would they move a lodge...the have automatic flush toilets and $3 sodas in the vending machines...what more could anybody want. Probably one of the best bars in carbon county as well...what a view...MILFs in stretch pants as far as the eye can see.

 

BAHAHAHAHA

[jordan]

Blue Ridge Real Estate (the true owners of Jack Frost) had talked about expanding past east mountain for years, as they own all of the surrounding land. Now that Peak Resorts manages, and solely profits from JF, I doubt blue ridge has any incentive to fund an expansion. Its a shame because there is some damn good terrain out there