BC Manager killed the race team

[Winter]

Just got word that management killed the race team, telling 87 kids to go elsewhere because, get this, they were getting too good and drawing too much attention to the mountain. Ski school director susan smoll along with manager mark shrotel apparently stole the teams email list and without telling any of the team leaders, sent out an email on April 1st alerting them to the fact they were not welcomed back as a team next year. Some may not be all that upset not to see the little racers around the slopes next year, but what a idiotic and downright ignorant way to go about it. We spend good money there every year since 2000, but i no longer want to give a dime to a place that did such a cowardly thing.

[Kyle]

Well that's 87 less gapers in the park.

 

 

 

But on a serious not I'm gonna call shenanigans, no manager tells their race team to go elsewhere because they draw to much attention. I would think havIng a stellar race team would only bring more people/kids to the mountain to either ski/ride or want to join the race team.

[Justo8484]

how can you have a stellar race team at bear creek? don't those kids get slaughtered when they go anywhere with any reasonable amount of vert or pitch? bear's got good snowmaking, a nice lodge/bar, and sometimes a decent park, and that's about it.

[RootDKJ]

I'm going to a wedding there in June.

[Winter]

I was sent the 'termination letter' from a parent down there, it clearly said they wanted to return the team to a simple developmental organization run by the ski school. All the competitive racers need to find a new mountain to train on. It's not like BC to conciously want to lose money, but they will lose a lot. Quite to the contrary, every year a good half-dozen bear creek kids made state championships, a few from there went to championship events in New England and as we speak, 3 kids are at Steamboat for the skier-cross Nationals. As small at BC was, i suspect it was strong coaching and a once supportive management that overcame the poor terrain.

[Winter]

Winter why don't you post a copy of the letter/email.

 

i dont know that it's in my place to post their internal emails, let me see if one of the people directly affected are on here and i'll get them to post it.

[Sno Mountain Skier]

i dont know that it's in my place to post their internal emails, let me see if one of the people directly affected are on here and i'll get them to post it.

You don't know if it is your place to post? What was the point of starting the thread then?

[mbike-ski]

are you a race parent? did you get the letter? i know the changes to timberline a few years ago and the aj kitt affiliation was all intended to grow the jr race program, wonder why the change in direction...

[snoskier]

Um, you said the email was sent out on APRIL 1ST. Is this just an April fools day prank. If not they picked a TERRIBLE day to announce.

[sibhusky]

Well, the race team here has been sort of given the boot, but that's not the way it was expressed. Basically, although the mountain will provide team rooms and coach space, support their events, etc., financially they will no longer support the team. It's on its own. First we lost the NorAms because in the mountain's accounting they lost money due to course prep expenses relative to lodging and lift ticket sales. Now the coaches, including Siblet, will no longer be mountain employees and fund-raising and coaching fees alone will be available to pay them. I think the mountain is letting its website be used to collect fees and then they will turn the money over to the Foundation. They see the little they will be doing as still "supporting" the race team. Given that with the recession, fund-raising has been WAY off, I don't know how the team will manage.

 

I think mountains all over are increasingly looking to operations rather than real estate sales (about time!). However, with that mindset every department has to support profits and if the team doesn't PROVE how they MAKE money for the mountain, then they're in trouble. Here, I think a bad job was done of proving how much lodging was due to events initially. If they'd done a better job have having people use coupon codes when booking, they'd have more proof that they didn't cost the mountain as much money as thought. However, even though coupon codes were used, they weren't really advertised enough I think. Or people got housing in town instead and that wasn't fed back to the resort as at least supporting ticket sales. I've been sad to see this happen as even though Siblet is no longer a racer, I'd been thrilled to see the level of support from this resort relative to what we saw at Camelback.

 

Now, from the initial wording of this thread, I got the impression that the team had been misbehaving and drawing complaints from other customers, which I used to see a lot of at Camelback and on and off, a bit here. I can't tell if that was the case or not, I'd like to see what was actually said. But if the coaches don't stress consideration and lack of racer cockiness from their kids, other customers get pissed off. The kids are probably being trained on the same trails as others and may be screwing around in lines. Being a race parent, I know how racers can be at that age. Here, on the other hand, a man I know was having his skis all stepped over by one of the kids, just happened to mention it to me (not knowing a thing about Siblet, just as a general complaint). I relayed it to Siblet along with a description of the kid. She knew immediately who it was and she and the Head Coach confronted the kid, whose jaw just dropped asking how they knew it was him. If coaches don't make this a priority then people start getting aggravated and the race team becomes a liability to the mountain.

[burton71]

"I got the impression that the team had been misbehaving and drawing complaints from other customers, which I used to see a lot of at Camelback and on and off, a bit here. "

 

More than a few times last year I saw them just bomb through the park with complete disregard for any park etiquette. But then again ski/snowboard instructors do the same with lessons so I doubt that played to much of a role in the decision.

[Winter]

I wish it were an april fools joke, and no matter what happened, it was plain wrong to send it that day. It appears ski school is going to attempt to offer a race program for non-competitive kids who won't be traveling to race. they likely won't be setting any gates either. Hard to call it 'race' program imho. I know, two sides to every story and other than what i read in the email, it has hard to explain why it was done. I will say any race program will have trouble keeping a tight leash on their racers. But knowing the director and head coach, I have faith that they expected the team to promote high levels of safety one and off the course. The mountain otoh did very little to promote it elsewhere as during the 09-10 ski season, 6 race kids were nailed by skiers/boarders, 2 requiring a sled trip down, one sent to the hospital with abroken bone.... all before the race program even started. Blame the kids for the occasional bombing, it's not at all un-common by the majority of skiers and boarders.

Back to the subject, the race team charged $450 per kid per season of high level training, ski school charged $92 for a HALF day kodiak kids program. My opinion is they thought they could make more money if they killed the race team and brought the remaining kids to ski school.

[sibhusky]

Just to give you some perspective, here are the past season's rates for the race programs here:

 

Program Price

 

Junior Race Team (Sat. 9AM-3PM ages 8-12)

Designed for those who want to take a step further towards the competitive skiing path. Participants are generally ages 8-12. Our coaches will blend all-mountain skiing, intelligent gate training & drills, terrain park & other tools in a curriculum designed to develop a strong skiing foundation. Participants should be strong intermediate to advanced skiers. Jr Race Team starts with Holiday Camp Dec 27-31, then trains on Saturdays through March 19th. $650

 

1 Day Per Week (Sat; Ages 8-14)

The Saturday only program is designed for those just getting started with our programs. The focus is an introduction to Alpine Ski Racing. Our focus on sound skiing fundamentals development is guided by proven race training curriculum and includes both free-skiing and gate training. $900

 

2 Days Per Week (Sat/Sun; Ages 8-19) $1100

 

3 Days Per Week (Sat/Sun/Wed PM; Ages 8-19) $1350

 

4 Days Per Week (Sat/Sun/Wed PM/Thurs PM; Ages 8-19) $1650

 

Race Team Academy (Ages 12-19)

For those competitors looking for a more intensive and comprehensive training environment, we offer the four day Academy that includes full afternoons of on-snow training on Wednesdays and Thursdays, as well as regular weekend training and competition opportunities. 4 Days per Week: Saturdays, Sundays, Wednesdays 1-6pm and Thursdays 1-6pm $2,350

 

"Junior" (i.e. ski school, not race team) Programs:

 

Junior Programs Reg Price

until Dec 31st

 

Buckaroos

( ages 3-4; limited enrollment! first come, first serve ) Wed 10-12pm; Sat or Sun 10-12pm or 1-3pm

Starts Jan 5,8,9; Ends March 9,12,13

Combo ski & play with kids center $305

 

Half Pints

( ages 5-6 ) Wed 10-12pm; Sat or Sun 10-12pm or 1-3pm

Starts Jan 5,8,9; Ends March 9,12,13 $235

 

Development Program

( ages 7-17 ) Sat or Sun, 9:30-3:30pm with break 12-1pm

Starts Jan 8,9; Ends March 12,13 $300

 

Custom Half Day

9-week program for kids; 8-week program for adults

Price is a flat-rate for the group. Form your group of similar skills and interests.

Pick your day, instructor, topics to address, skills to develop and activities to explore. Follow an existing program format or create something new. We can also help you plan a multi-day clinic or a different duration of a weekly program. Get a group together and coordinate with our staff to design the right program for your group. Participants should be of the same ability level, and children should be of similar ages. Based on availability. 2 hrs for Adults & Half Pints, 2.5 for Devo.

9 Week Program. Based on Availability. $1785

 

 

Custom Full Day

9-week program for kids; 8-week program for adults

Price is a flat-rate for the group. Form your group of similar skills and interests.

Pick your day, instructor, topics to address, skills to develop and activities to explore. Follow an existing program format or create something new. We can also help you plan a multi-day clinic or a different duration of a weekly program. Get a group together and coordinate with our staff to design the right program for your group. Participants should be of the same ability level, and children should be of similar ages. Based on availability. 4 hrs for Adults & Half Pints, 5 for Devo.

9 Week Program. Based on Availability. $2400

Edited April 12, 2011 by sibhusky

[sibhusky]

Doug, the training is the LEAST of it. And parents in PA should be thrilled to be in the East. When Siblet was at Camelback, an overnight was maybe once/twice a year. Rarely was transport more than an hour or two. Distances out west are another thing entirely. Every competition here except races HERE involved overnight stays and, as she climbed the ladder, even airfare. I figured the first year here, we dropped $10,000 on her racing, including equipment, lift tickets, comp fees, lodging, food, gas, airline tickets, and training. The next year I didn't add it up, knowing it was more, but preferring to remain ignorant. I remember a race at Mammoth, where they NEVER had a race that didn't involve cancellations due to weather or course conditions, it cost us $1500 a RUN. (After than go-round and based on past history of races at Mammoth, I stopped allowing her to go to those races, it was nuts.) If your kid is better than Siblet, who raced FIS, but did not qualify for all the Elite events, then it's even more. One of her friends ran through all her college savings chasing race points in hopes of making it big and ended up only being able to apply colleges that would give her a "full ride". She got in one of them. Fortunately, her grades were top notch and they had a ski team. Even more fortunately, when she injured her back and couldn't race after one year, they didn't rescind the scholarship.

[Barb]

I wish it were an april fools joke, and no matter what happened, it was plain wrong to send it that day. It appears ski school is going to attempt to offer a race program for non-competitive kids who won't be traveling to race. they likely won't be setting any gates either. Hard to call it 'race' program imho. I know, two sides to every story and other than what i read in the email, it has hard to explain why it was done. I will say any race program will have trouble keeping a tight leash on their racers. But knowing the director and head coach, I have faith that they expected the team to promote high levels of safety one and off the course. The mountain otoh did very little to promote it elsewhere as during the 09-10 ski season, 6 race kids were nailed by skiers/boarders, 2 requiring a sled trip down, one sent to the hospital with abroken bone.... all before the race program even started. Blame the kids for the occasional bombing, it's not at all un-common by the majority of skiers and boarders.

Back to the subject, the race team charged $450 per kid per season of high level training, ski school charged $92 for a HALF day kodiak kids program. My opinion is they thought they could make more money if they killed the race team and brought the remaining kids to ski school.

 

 

That price has to be on top of the season pass or else its way too cheap. JFBB race program is $900 if you buy in the early season. This includes an all access season pass.

[Winter]

That price has to be on top of the season pass or else its way too cheap. JFBB race program is $900 if you buy in the early season. This includes an all access season pass.

 

Oh, that definitely did not include a season pass/lift pass. As best i could tell it was right in line with other Pa programs. The thing BC boasted was the best coach to racer ratio however. I just asked, they had 75 racers last year, 87 this year and typically hired between 28 and 30 coaches including the directors and head coach. Something else not mentioned, besides bringing in AJ Kitt again this winter, they also hired ex-USST team womens coach Shawn Goodwin and USSA director of childrens programs, Alex Krebbs to train the BC coaches. I highly doubt ski school will be able to match that talent.

[Winter]

holy crap that is alot of coaches...can you get us a copy of the e-mail...muy pronto...

 

I'll post perhaps tonight, i'd also like to include the teams reply but that email is at home and i'm still at work.

[sibhusky]

Yes, I initially thought the number unlikely, thought they must be counting AJ Kitt and friends in their coach numbers. Then I counted our coaches, compared it to the "roster" on the USSA site for the kids on the team and came up with roughly a 4 to 1 ratio here as well. I'm not sure that all the kids are USSA members, however, since some of the younger ones, on the Junior Race Team, I don't think ever went to "real" races, only Tommy Moe. But once you start considering you have someone setting courses, someone at the top of the run, someone at the bottom, coaches with kids elsewhere on the mountain who are not currently running gates, then more coaches with the kids on the team who are away at races, you start seeing how the number of coaches needed really adds up.

[Winter]

Here's the email I got from ski school. I'll post the team's reply tomorrow. I found it interesting though that the team seemingly was split 50/50 with racers and developmental kids and their training days clearly showed how seriously they were about the non-competing kids. More shocking was in their 5 year existance, they have been qualifying kids for State championships for 4 years (could be 3)and from States, some have qualified for eastern USSA championship events each year in New England. Seems strange that they'd let the team get this good and then tell them they aren't welcome to train there.

 

Race Team Parents and Coaches,

 

When they began, the Bear Creek Race and Development Teams were intended to be home-mountain programs, and their primary goals were to develop versatile skiing skills (partly through race training), to prepare young skiers to pursue whatever avenue of skiing expression they desire, and to inspire a lifelong love of the sport.

 

Over the years, however, these programs have strayed significantly from that original intent. Currently, the overriding focus on sanctioned competition and away racing often seems to take precedence over home-mountain training and development. This was never the intent or direction desired by management, and we feel that the original goals have been subordinated to a degree that is often detrimental for many participants and for other important aspects of overall operations.

 

For the upcoming 2011-2012 season, we want these programs to return to the full spirit of the original intent. Toward that end, these programs will now operate under the direction and control of the Bear Creek Snowsports School. The goals and future direction of these programs will be guided by the original intent of Bear Creek management:

 

 

 

[AtomicSkier]

I'm curious as to what Bobert has to say...

[sibhusky]

Sounds to me like they didn't like people getting a glimpse of other mountains, they didn't like paying coaches' expenses for trips, didn't like the higher salary demands of race coaches, and saw going elsewhere as lost revenue. Good luck on the kids skiing as independents, they must find a coach to "represent" them in captains' meetings. I'm sure coaches from other mountains will be just thrilled to worry about kids they are not being paid to represent. As a parent, I'd go elsewhere for racing.

 

Not clear to me is if the head coach has changed? That might explain a lot. They have to be race coach certified beyond just local hill training in order to attend races, etc. The salary that the mountain is willing to pay might not cover the demands of a program director/head coach. Our Foundation has always subsidized the salaries of the main coaches in addition to what they were paid by the ski school. Just managing the logistics of who is going to be gone where each weekend for the different levels of competition, along with transport and any other trip requirements is way beyond the duties of a guy who just shows up to train.

[JibHonk]

Jibhonk if they decided to get rid of Iron Works and Park cr

[sibhusky]

Jibhonk, you're participating in a thread and you don't care about the topic, so why participate? GSS is right, if this were affecting you, you'd care. That's his point.

[JibHonk]

Correct me if I'm wrong Sib but are you participating in this thread? Are YOU being affected? No? Okay, thats my point.

[Glenn]

Correct me if I'm wrong Sib but are you participating in this thread? Are YOU being affected? No? Okay, thats my point.

 

Get your head out of your ass kid. Sib isn't shitting on the thread. Neither is Doug or anyone but you. Had this been a park shutdown thread people would be bitching and moaning to no end including those who are not affected because they are at different hills. I don't share the OP's sense of injustice over the loss of a competitive race program, but I at least had enough respect or decency or whatever not to try and shit up the thread. There are no big ego's here, no dick waving. Go find a worthwhile thread to troll and leave this one for the people who do care, as there clearly are several.