BC Manager killed the race team

[sibhusky]

I have an interest in the death of any racing program, even if it's not my mountain. It's a sad sign of the times.

[Winter]

To clarify a few things, the coaches i beleive were paid a basic salary per day worked, nothing huge, maybe $8 or $9 an hour. However, the mountain did not pay them to travel in any way. No salary, no hotel stay, no fuel or turnpike tolls. The reasoning i'm to understand was due to insurance. Not sure why they didn't suck it up and add those coaches to the policy, many other mountains do. Anyway, the head coach was Rolf Mair, a 23 year veteran of race coaching and supposedly has a fairly high level of credentials. His boss, the director of the team, Reece Mcgreggor is the son of PARA's president so he had a good deal of clout in the racing community. I don't know much about the lady who was leading the developmental groups for the team but she apparently we highly qualified as well. I can't speak for them, but knowing that they didn't get paid a whole lot better than their coaches, i'd have to say they weren't in it for the money. I doubt either of them want anything to do with whatever ski school decides is best for the new program. All I know is these two guys and the gal put an enormous amount of effort into making this team successful given terrain limitations. I'll try to see where they are headed from here.

[sibhusky]

Wow. And that's East Coast pay. Siblet was paid more than that and she had no Race Coach certs, only on-hill experience. She plans to get some of the certs before next season to justify a pay increase. The coaches out here that travel due get gas and food and hotel reimbursement, not sure about the hours. The head coach, however, was a salaried, not hourly, employee, not sure about the two "main" assistants.

 

Anyway, Rolf Mair has Level 200 certification. He also has various "officials" certifications.

Reece McGregor has strictly "officials" certifications, no coach certs.

Edited April 13, 2011 by sibhusky

[Winter]

I keep getting info in bursts, sorry for that! I was kind of wrong on one thing. The coaches did get paid to travel, but not by the mountain. the Bear Creek Race club, through dues paid by parents, paid coaches to travel and may have even given an amount towards hotels if needed. But the mountain didn't recognize them off site. I'll post the reply from the team as soon as i get home.

[gate setter]

I am a ski team parent. It is not a race program if you can't race. It would be like telling Jeff Gordon to go practice but never race. My family has invested 5 years of time and money in this program only to be told to race as an independent racer. You go to race with no home coach they asign you a coach from a rival mountain to ck the coarse. Which he could tell them wrong info on same to help there racers. I have been loyal to Beer Creek for 40 years but will not return and feel betrayed. I fell management"GM" has refused to put out a statement. It is and was like a family.

[Winter]

I am a ski team parent. It is not a race program if you can't race. It would be like telling Jeff Gordon to go practice but never race. My family has invested 5 years of time and money in this program only to be told to race as an independent racer. You go to race with no home coach they asign you a coach from a rival mountain to ck the coarse. Which he could tell them wrong info on same to help there racers. I have been loyal to Beer Creek for 40 years but will not return and feel betrayed. I fell management"GM" has refused to put out a statement. It is and was like a family.

 

Sorry to hear that gatesetter. Cowardly on their part not to explain the real reason for all of this. See the head coaches reply below...

--------------------

 

It's with a heavy heart that I'm writing this update, as normally this time of year is a joyous celebration of a great season for our ski team. As you probably know by now, mountain management and ski school have decided to take over responsibility of what was the Bear Creek Race Team. To the point, I want to be perfectly clear that neither Reece, Andi or I had any knowledge of this until two days ago. We were not consulted in any way, nor were we asked for input as to how best to form this new program. This is a done deal. As your team leaders, we had requested that we be the ones to break the news to our group. Sadly, our request was not honored. If anyone did not receive the news from ski school today, please let me know as I'll will forward it to you.

 

I would like to point out some inaccuracies in the emails that have been sent to the team and to individuals afterwards, from Ski School. The Bear Creek 'RACE' Team was a name given to us by Bear Creek management upon the teams first year of existence. To most, this name would immediately suggest a degree of competition within the program. Early thoughts of calling it a SKI team were discouraged, due in part to the possible inclusion of a snowboarding element. All previous and current directors and coaches of the team understood and respected the importance of having a strong developmental program, and initially it was a developmental program for the vast majority. As with any other youth sport, one cannot practice for such a time that the aspirations of competition do not arise and the need to apply learned skills becomes apparent. Imagine telling your child they have to go to little league baseball or softball practice but are denied the experience and pleasure of competing in a game.

 

 

At no point through the years has it been brought to our attention that our program has strayed from its original focus. Through all the outstanding results our youngsters accomplished, through rare but pronounced praise from other much more established PA ski teams, and even through the multitude of newspaper articles, magazine articles and TV spots, have we ever been told we are losing focus of our developmental side. As a matter of fact, it was the developmental side that has progressed in organization faster than the race side in recent years. Last but not least, the majority of our coaches have made it a point to further their education on both sides of the program, most times at a significant financial burden, with no financial reward. We even hired coaches and ski instructors with far higher credentials than anyone who ever stepped into skis at Bear Creek, to expand the education of our coaches even further. Bottom line is, we are shocked by not only the sudden change of leadership, but the reasoning behind it.

 

More important than anything above, is what happens now. For those who will choose to stay at Bear Creek and join the new developmental team, I'm fairly confident it will be organized and well staffed, as a continuation of the current Kodiak Kids program. I'd suggest waiting until Ski School director Susan Smoll finalizes the details and presents the structure and costs before deciding what you'll do. As for the currently displaced racers and those who aspired to race outside of Bear Creek next season, Reece and I have your interests at heart. Within less than 24 hours of the initial email most of us received, I have the sympathy and support of two Pa. ski teams who are willing to discuss the addition of Bear Creek racers into their programs. For those accomplished Skier-cross racers and those who would like to become part of that group, please contact Andi McGunnigle, as it would be a shame not to continue your incredible progress. Parents, you won't be left out either. Anyone who is currently volunteering their time in other departments at Bear Creek (patrol, ambassadors etc) or paid positions (coaches, ski instructors) will be brought to the attention of the ski team you choose to join. We will cheerfully provide the references and needed information if that's the direction your family chooses. Furthermore, I'm also exploring real estate and rental property opportunities at several locations within PA near established ski teams that would be honored to have us. And lastly, for those racers who choose to pursue competing within PARA but do so as an independent racer without a mountain to call their home, you may certainly do so. However, the racer MUST be represented at these events by a licensed coach or they cannot compete. If you chose this route, please get in touch with me now and/or next season and I'll be sure to have someone take care of you. Of course, being that Bear Creek will not be recognized as a legitimate team in USSA/PARA any longer, there will still be plenty of up-to-date licensed ex-BC coaches at most of the races regardless, including Reece and I.

 

One more item... It was clearly noted that other than what Ski School has proposed for the 'new' team, there will be no gate training on Thursday evenings or any opportunity to practice regulation USSA courses from here out. Nastar will still be available however.

 

 

 

Andi, Reece and I sincerely appreciate the wealth of encouraging emails we've been flooded with today. It's been our pleasure to earn your trust in taking care of your children each weekend. As with all our fine coaches, our reward was never monetarily motivated, as evidenced by the fact it always costs more money to coach than was gained through a paycheck. Our reward was seeing your kids break free of the wedge turn into parallel ones, or standing tall on the podium proudly donning their Bear Creek Racing t-shirt. Kudo's to the coaches for dedicated service in bad weather or good, and striving to better not only your group of kids, but yourselves as well. Thanks to the parents for their support and generous donations, we only wish they could have been used for longer term investments. And just as importantly to the racers themselves. You listened, learned and persevered, all the while exhibiting fine sportsmanship and loyalty to the Bear Creek Race Team.

 

 

 

From here out, we kindly request that all 'new' team questions, suggestions and concerns be directed to the people below.

------CUT--------

 

I left out the contact info for those responsible. But there you have it...

[TylerDurden]

Music to my eyes.

[First Grade Teacher]

 

And lastly, for those racers who choose to pursue competing within PARA but do so as an independent racer without a mountain to call their home, you may certainly do so. However, the racer MUST be represented at these events by a licensed coach or they cannot compete. If you chose this route, please get in touch with me now and/or next season and I'll be sure to have someone take care of you. Of course, being that Bear Creek will not be recognized as a legitimate team in USSA/PARA any longer, there will still be plenty of up-to-date licensed ex-BC coaches at most of the races regardless, including Reece and I.

 

 

Why would any racer race as an "independent"? Coaches from other teams will help a racer in a pinch but that will only last a few races before they tire of it. Also if you are going to race, you need to train. Racers won't stay at BC with no training and then travel as an "independent" to races. Looks like Blue will have more kids next year. Blue has the premier race program in the state.

[First Grade Teacher]

You go to race with no home coach they asign you a coach from a rival mountain to ck the coarse. Which he could tell them wrong info on same to help there racers.

 

Coaches don't stoop that low. ANYWHERE!

Edited April 14, 2011 by First Grade Teacher

[Glenn]

I am a business-man.

 

Is that why you are a still a go'fer at your daddy's business?

[Winter]

Why would any racer race as an "independent"? Coaches from other teams will help a racer in a pinch but that will only last a few races before they tire of it. Also if you are going to race, you need to train. Racers won't stay at BC with no training and then travel as an "independent" to races. Looks like Blue will have more kids next year. Blue has the premier race program in the state.

 

For several reasons. First, some parents simply may not have the financial means to be part of any race program. Second, it BC's situation, some parents are so far from any other mountain, that they may not wish to drive any further than they do now. So the kid ends up free skiing and then racing on weekends. Yeah, Blue is within eyesight of BC, but it's still 35-45 minutes further. I do know that the PARA coaching community is great bunch of people who will do anything for any PA kid at and event. I've seen coaches from other mountains fully involved in fixing an equipment problem of another teams kids, or getting them prepped in the start line. I do think that after a season of being an independant, one should consider joining a team, but they're not forced to. And yes, looks like Blue will benefit. The largest team (save for 7 springs maybe) will be getting bigger. BC just gave more money back to Blue!

[JibHonk]

theres the Glenn I missed

[burton71]

I am a business-man. The most important thing to do is satisfy you core customers.

As a business man do you really think the race team is BC's core customer base? Most people that go to BC probably don't even know that they had a race team.

 

Bottom line it mostly likely came down to a financial decision, like most things in business, and in the end it was cut.

[sibhusky]

Is there no way the mountain would allow an "outside" group to set up gates and train? Although our mountain has sort of cast us off, it is possible to PAY for part of the mountain to be used at night for midweek training, etc. And if the parents can get a fundraising engine going, they should be able to pay for coaches. On-mountain office and team space becomes an issue, but maybe it can be rented? After all, now (unless they were bursting at the seams space-wise) they have empty areas in the building not being used because that is where the team was. I would think that if the mountain is approached in a way for them to see this "race club" as an outside group willing to pay for services, this situation (given sufficient parental support in terms of labor and fundraising) could be turned around.

 

I think the mountain's motivation needs to be figured out and then a way found to accommodate that and re-think the way the team is operated. After all, most places accommodate bus groups, etc. This would be sort of a regular "special group".

[Kyle]

On a per person basis the BC race team spends more than any segment of BCs customer base..and they are there quite often..my main clients are funeral homes and I know that if we treat them poorly not only will we lose their business but they will stop recommending us to their associates..anyway just my inflation adjusted two cents..

 

I fail to see your reasoning.

 

 

I underatand.the funeral home part not.the bear creek race team part.

Edited April 14, 2011 by Kyle

[Glenn]

On a per person basis the BC race team spends more than any segment of BCs customer base..

 

Bullshit. Racers are frugal. They use up huge amounts of lodge space all day, bring their own food, they aren't the ones who forgot a pair of gloves and buys it at huge markups in the shop. They don't need lessons, they don't need daycare, they don't need rentals. Racing is good for the sport on the long run, but on the short run it's better to just have the gapes come to the slopes 2 times a year. Racing costs a bunch of money, but as mentioned in here, the funds acquired don't even cover the total operating cost of coaches, gates, officials etc. Parents volunteer because the money they already put out still doesn't cover the sport.

 

I don't know all the details involved and these are generalizations based on actually working and living in the bowels of a ski hill for 3 years. I've talked to marketing, accounting and racing folks about this kind of stuff. Races just don't spend enough money where the hill can bring it in. At the end of the day you have a race program because you want one, and it's good for the kids and the community, not because it makes you money.

[burton71]

On a per person basis the BC race team spends more than any segment of BCs customer base..and they are there quite often..

I would love to see some some data / numbers to back that up. Espically considering the race team is also an expense to the mountain.

 

Mountains make the most money on occasionaly vistors...not regulars. The family of 4 that comes up for the weekend. They stay at the hotel, eat at the grill, buy 4 weekend lift tickets, rentals, lessons, etc... BC most likely makes more money on that family in a weekend than they make on most racers in a season.

[Winter]

As a business man do you really think the race team is BC's core customer base? Most people that go to BC probably don't even know that they had a race team.

 

Bottom line it mostly likely came down to a financial decision, like most things in business, and in the end it was cut.

 

 

Some of you are dead wrong. Last year, when they only had 75 racers, the mountain profited just less than $32,000 from team registration and season pass sales of the families of the racers. That was AFTER paying the coaches and any other misc. odds and ends. It was told to me by another parent that beyond the $450 (actually $475 this year) registration per kid, plus the overpriced nearly $1800 family season pass deal, some parents frequented the grill, or trails end cafe, some stayed overnight in the hotel while others made good use of the spa. The roughly figured the average family on the race team dropped nearly $3000 each season. Do the math and you'll find the ski team brought in well into the six figure $$$ range. Of course, this year, you can base it off of 87 instead of 75. In the grand scheme of things, that kind of money is a small fraction of what that place brings in in a given year. But again, as a business owner, i have to wonder what logic goes through a managers mind in that he'll not only have a hard time making that $$$ up, but then having to deal with the horrible PR this has created. If anything, the race team did more free promoting of their mountain than any other program at BC. And hell, the slopes were less crowded this year, likely due to the ridiculous ticket prices.

[Glenn]

Some of you are dead wrong. Last year, when they only had 75 racers, the mountain profited just less than $32,000 from team registration and season pass sales of the families of the racers. That was AFTER paying the coaches and any other misc. odds and ends. It was told to me by another parent that beyond the $450 (actually $475 this year) registration per kid, plus the overpriced nearly $1800 family season pass deal, some parents frequented the grill, or trails end cafe, some stayed overnight in the hotel while others made good use of the spa. The roughly figured the average family on the race team dropped nearly $3000 each season. Do the math and you'll find the ski team brought in well into the six figure $$$ range. Of course, this year, you can base it off of 87 instead of 75. In the grand scheme of things, that kind of money is a small fraction of what that place brings in in a given year. But again, as a business owner, i have to wonder what logic goes through a managers mind in that he'll not only have a hard time making that $$$ up, but then having to deal with the horrible PR this has created. If anything, the race team did more free promoting of their mountain than any other program at BC. And hell, the slopes were less crowded this year, likely due to the ridiculous ticket prices.

 

 

Of course they spent some money, but look at the resources they used. Even after coaches the race team costs the hill money and it removes resources from other more profitable customers. I've personally spent extra time on the clock cleaning up racers tables after a full day of posting up. That means for a full day of business no other guests could use that resource, they didn't spend any money and I used more (roughly twice as much) time cleaning up their tables than the others. I've seen it happen many times and I personally have walked out of a crowded cafeteria if there simply was no room. That's lost revenue in the most lucrative part of the ski industry outside of real estate which isn't doing anything anymore. Understand that on a daily pass most ski resorts lose money in operating costs but make it up through their other means. That "overpriced" family pass costs them lots of money, and is really just a nice way to get capitol in the beginning of the season. Consider trails. In the west it's not as big a deal, in the east when you have under 40 runs every run counts. You take a whole trail away, particularly the steeper more challenging terrain and you have a resource that no one else, higher paying customers, can use.

 

I'm not trying to argue against having a race team. I'm just giving my perspective after being working at a hill talking to managers about all aspects of the business and living in a mountain restaurant and people watching for several years.

[Winter]

OK I read the whole post and alot of those race team families probably had season passes at BC before cause it's the closest place to many. They were still drinking their microbrews and eating their sangwiches and staying in the hotel. So now they are all going to go to Blue and Blue is gonna have 75 more bratty race kids doing thee stupid ass trains through the crowds of goobers while the PASR blue crew flys past the goobers and racer kids.

 

I don't know what's worse racekids or snowboarders...tongue firmly planted in cheek.

 

When I grow up I wanna be a jibhonk.

 

 

I'll tell you what's worse, the majority of kids using the terrain parks or just being there in general. The race kids, mine included were firmly instructed on proper behavior amongst the public and mountain rules clearly stated no race kids in the parks during training hours. Best you learn the big picture before spouting off more silliness. The park rats, while keeping BC flush with lift ticket money, are some of the worst behaved, worst trained in common ski/board sense and often are downright ignorant of their surroundings. I've been to 9 other ski areas this year, i have a pretty good understanding of this. Besides, i never saw a BC race kid jump the ropes and blaze through the beginner trail half scaring the $hit out of unsuspecting nOObs. And then there is ski patrol who only give a half-hearted attempt at fixing the problems.

[Winter]

Of course they spent some money, but look at the resources they used. Even after coaches the race team costs the hill money and it removes resources from other more profitable customers. I've personally spent extra time on the clock cleaning up racers tables after a full day of posting up. That means for a full day of business no other guests could use that resource, they didn't spend any money and I used more (roughly twice as much) time cleaning up their tables than the others. I've seen it happen many times and I personally have walked out of a crowded cafeteria if there simply was no room. That's lost revenue in the most lucrative part of the ski industry outside of real estate which isn't doing anything anymore. Understand that on a daily pass most ski resorts lose money in operating costs but make it up through their other means. That "overpriced" family pass costs them lots of money, and is really just a nice way to get capitol in the beginning of the season. Consider trails. In the west it's not as big a deal, in the east when you have under 40 runs every run counts. You take a whole trail away, particularly the steeper more challenging terrain and you have a resource that no one else, higher paying customers, can use.

 

I'm not trying to argue against having a race team. I'm just giving my perspective after being working at a hill talking to managers about all aspects of the business and living in a mountain restaurant and people watching for several years.

 

 

I follow your point and not to split hairs, but i can't think of one instance at BC where this was as much of an issue. The race team had their own room and were entirely in charge of its clean-up, as no other department would do it for them. And rightly so. And yes, closing a trail does and will cause public complaints. I'm not sure that was the issue as much at BC as Nastar is expanding to saturdays from what i hear, so again, the race trail will be closed part of the weekend. But really, race teams at many ski areas are more of bragging rights for said mountain. It certainly isn't a huge money maker (save for Blue which has a ton of racers). The bottom line is, BC pocketed a nice chunck of money, but after the team is gone, will they gain that money back and then some by this decision? Maybe, but probably not right away. Right now there are 87 upset kids with parents that have no good explanation as to why big corporate brother kicked out a successful race team. If you have kids, you'll understand the dilema. And beleive me, those parents are talking about this and likely encouraging people NOT to spend money at BC. That will hurt a bit too.

[momskeeztoo]

I'll tell you what's worse, the majority of kids using the terrain parks or just being there in general. The race kids, mine included were firmly instructed on proper behavior amongst the public and mountain rules clearly stated no race kids in the parks during training hours. Best you learn the big picture before spouting off more silliness. The park rats, while keeping BC flush with lift ticket money, are some of the worst behaved, worst trained in common ski/board sense and often are downright ignorant of their surroundings. I've been to 9 other ski areas this year, i have a pretty good understanding of this. Besides, i never saw a BC race kid jump the ropes and blaze through the beginner trail half scaring the $hit out of unsuspecting nOObs. And then there is ski patrol who only give a half-hearted attempt at fixing the problems.

[momskeeztoo]

sorry I can't agree with you. Park kids at Bear and most other local mountains I frequent are alot more well behaved then the race kids. Just my observation.

[Kyle]

I'll tell you what's worse, the majority of kids using the terrain parks or just being there in general. The race kids, mine included were firmly instructed on proper behavior amongst the public and mountain rules clearly stated no race kids in the parks during training hours. Best you learn the big picture before spouting off more silliness. The park rats, while keeping BC flush with lift ticket money, are some of the worst behaved, worst trained in common ski/board sense and often are downright ignorant of their surroundings. I've been to 9 other ski areas this year, i have a pretty good understanding of this. Besides, i never saw a BC race kid jump the ropes and blaze through the beginner trail half scaring the $hit out of unsuspecting nOObs. And then there is ski patrol who only give a half-hearted attempt at fixing the problems.

Please explain how the park kids are more misbehaved. I've never had a problem with anyone in the park. Plus you don't see park rats cutting through timberline snaking through the gates in front of racers like the race kids do in the park.

[JibHonk]

Ive got mad twitter followers so I'll counteract those parents with lots of #spendmoney @bearCreek tweets

Edited April 15, 2011 by JibHonk