BC Manager killed the race team

[Winter]

Right off the bat, i won't disagree with race kids with no park etiquette, but i think that is with any kid who hasn't been tought the proper rules of the park. It wasn't race teams responsibility to teach them this, it's something that is learned through those who do understand the rules. That is, unless you want to become one of those mountains that forces you to go through 'training' and then give you a pass to use those parks.

From the park rats, I hear constant swearing from the lifts or slopes, I routinely see very dangerous skiing/riding, and in general, they are the ones who have caused most of the old school skiers (re: ski code responsible people) to leave and head north. And again, it was park rats who took out six smaller race kids very early last season. Not adult skiers, not ski instructors, not other regular ski kids, but park rats. If i hadn't witnessed two of the accidents, I might have called it coincidental.

[PASKIINGSUCKS]

Right off the bat, i won't disagree with race kids with no park etiquette, but i think that is with any kid who hasn't been tought the proper rules of the park. It wasn't race teams responsibility to teach them this, it's something that is learned through those who do understand the rules. That is, unless you want to become one of those mountains that forces you to go through 'training' and then give you a pass to use those parks.

From the park rats, I hear constant swearing from the lifts or slopes, I routinely see very dangerous skiing/riding, and in general, they are the ones who have caused most of the old school skiers (re: ski code responsible people) to leave and head north. And again, it was park rats who took out six smaller race kids very early last season. Not adult skiers, not ski instructors, not other regular ski kids, but park rats. If i hadn't witnessed two of the accidents, I might have called it coincidental.

Can you go into more detail about those park kids taking out six smaller race kids early last season?? What did you witness??

[momskeeztoo]

Right off the bat, i won't disagree with race kids with no park etiquette, but i think that is with any kid who hasn't been tought the proper rules of the park. It wasn't race teams responsibility to teach them this, it's something that is learned through those who do understand the rules. That is, unless you want to become one of those mountains that forces you to go through 'training' and then give you a pass to use those parks.

From the park rats, I hear constant swearing from the lifts or slopes, I routinely see very dangerous skiing/riding, and in general, they are the ones who have caused most of the old school skiers (re: ski code responsible people) to leave and head north. And again, it was park rats who took out six smaller race kids very early last season. Not adult skiers, not ski instructors, not other regular ski kids, but park rats. If i hadn't witnessed two of the accidents, I might have called it coincidental.

 

Alot of park etiquette doesn't have to be taught, its common sense- ie: don't stand in the landing, don't cut people off, don't jump over the lips. I witnesses alot of problems with the ski team over on F chair,- skiing fast down into the line, kids standing on my skis, cutting in line. Alot of the adults were not much better, I heard one race team adult say to another, "I'll be right there, as soon as this "stupid guy" gets out of my way", indicating someone who was ahead of him in line. Where were these race kids taken out? Were they in the park? Just because someone has twin tips or a snowboard doesn't mean they ride park. Most of the kids who ride park very rarely venture over to F chair side, unless to ride family park, then they usually hike features.

[PASKIINGSUCKS]

I heard they dumped the race program because BC is going all park next season. There won't be one trail without features for them to set gates on. Gonna be a massive booter on sasquatch.

[Winter]

I'd certainly never claim the race kids were perfect and i won't go so far as to say the incidents were few. But at the very least the race team kids had supervision and leadership that was ultimately responsible for their behavior and through that, word was consistently coming down from the team leaders about respect out on the hill. Again, there will always be issues but unlike those who use the parks, at least the race team had oversight. And yes, i wouldn't lie about all the collisions between race kids and park kids. One of them was my own kid making clean turns down extreme when a snowboarder blazed down grizzly, cut hard to the right to seemingly cut over to the beginners chair and wiped out my 6 year old. It was all i could do to keep my fists to my self.

The reason i dont post much here is most topics get off-topic in a hurry. Bottom line here is not whether the team will be missed or not, or if the mountain will lose money. I could care less as i dont ski there any longer. The topic was about how the manager and ski school director went about notifying the team. It is about not consulting those coaches and leaders about problems up to that point and not asking them for input on the new team. It's about blindsiding a lot of good people who were proud of their mountain and now told they were never really appreciated. Like them or not, it's still a group of 87 kids who were enjoying the mountain and more importantly enjoying being on snow like all of us here, boarder, skier or tuber. That has to count for a little something? In the end, it was two corporate adult know-nothings that didn't take into consideration how poorly their decision would be taken. Ask yourself, would it be any different if next year at the beginning of the season they announced all parks would be gone in favor of more tubing runs? Or just gone period?

[burton71]

Some of you are dead wrong. Last year, when they only had 75 racers, the mountain profited just less than $32,000 from team registration and season pass sales of the families of the racers. That was AFTER paying the coaches and any other misc. odds and ends. It was told to me by another parent that beyond the $450 (actually $475 this year) registration per kid, plus the overpriced nearly $1800 family season pass deal, some parents frequented the grill, or trails end cafe, some stayed overnight in the hotel while others made good use of the spa. The roughly figured the average family on the race team dropped nearly $3000 each season. Do the math and you'll find the ski team brought in well into the six figure $$$ range. Of course, this year, you can base it off of 87 instead of 75. In the grand scheme of things, that kind of money is a small fraction of what that place brings in in a given year. But again, as a business owner, i have to wonder what logic goes through a managers mind in that he'll not only have a hard time making that $$$ up, but then having to deal with the horrible PR this has created. If anything, the race team did more free promoting of their mountain than any other program at BC. And hell, the slopes were less crowded this year, likely due to the ridiculous ticket prices.

None of what you said proves my point to be wrong. $32,000 for a season is not a lot of money. They probably clear 5 times that on weekend in January. Saying the average race team family spends nearly $3000 a season doesn't help your point. That works out to $750 per person for the season assuming an average family size of 4. That isn't a lot of money. Bottom line is BC won't be hurting financially from this decision.

 

Does it suck that they cancelled the program? Sure. Is it the end of the world? No. It seems they are are still offering some kind of program and next season is still very far away. Who knows they might change their minds.

Edited April 15, 2011 by burton71

[Justo8484]

I'd certainly never claim the race kids were perfect and i won't go so far as to say the incidents were few. But at the very least the race team kids had supervision and leadership that was ultimately responsible for their behavior and through that, word was consistently coming down from the team leaders about respect out on the hill. Again, there will always be issues but unlike those who use the parks, at least the race team had oversight. And yes, i wouldn't lie about all the collisions between race kids and park kids. One of them was my own kid making clean turns down extreme when a snowboarder blazed down grizzly, cut hard to the right to seemingly cut over to the beginners chair and wiped out my 6 year old. It was all i could do to keep my fists to my self.

 

you've got every right to be angry about somebody clipping your kid. my dad would have done the same thing if it was me or my brother when we were younger, so i totally understand your point there. that said, are you just lumping the offender into the 'park rat' category because he was on a snowboard? did you actually see him riding park? extreme isn't near any of the parks except the baby park, so how are you so sure he is a 'park rat'? as someone mentioned, not everyone who rides a snowboard or twin tip skis rides park, as is evidenced by many people on this site. bottom line, it doesn't matter where you prefer to ski. i like to ride park when i'm on the east coast, some people like to rip steep groomers and make lots of turns. what matters is that some people just suck at life, in all aspects, and have no respect for other people. don't cut me off on the inrun to a jump and i won't bother with your race training when i'm skiing a groomer with my parents. some of us park rats are actually pretty good skiers who don't just go around plowing race kids for fun like you seem to think.

 

oh, and get off my lawn.

[Mixilplix]

Let me ask this...has anyone from the race team tried to talk to the GM and the ski school director personaly about this matter?

[burton71]

I routinely see very dangerous skiing/riding, and in general, they are the ones who have caused most of the old school skiers (re: ski code responsible people) to leave and head north. And again, it was park rats who took out six smaller race kids very early last season. Not adult skiers, not ski instructors, not other regular ski kids, but park rats. If i hadn't witnessed two of the accidents, I might have called it coincidental.

Get the fuck out of here with this "ski code responsible people" crap. There are signs up at the top of both parks explaining the rules of the park and yet routinely "old school skiers, adult skiers, ski instructors, racers, and other regular ski kids" IGNORE them and drop into the park runs, cut people off, sit on jumps, sit on landings and basically create unsafe conditions for everyone.

Edited April 15, 2011 by burton71

[JibHonk]

I like turtles

[mbike-ski]

Old school skiers lol

hey i resemble that remark

 

and it's old's kool

[Winter]

None of what you said proves my point to be wrong. $32,000 for a season is not a lot of money. They probably clear 5 times that on weekend in January. Saying the average race team family spends nearly $3000 a season doesn't help your point. That works out to $750 per person for the season assuming an average family size of 4. That isn't a lot of money. Bottom line is BC won't be hurting financially from this decision.

 

Does it suck that they cancelled the program? Sure. Is it the end of the world? No. It seems they are are still offering some kind of program and next season is still very far away. Who knows they might change their minds.

 

Chump change actually. It's the word of mouth from all the pissed off people that will hurt them a bit more. Besides, any one notice how fewer riders/skiers there were this year? Highest lift ticket prices have anything to do with that?

 

Let me ask this...has anyone from the race team tried to talk to the GM and the ski school director personaly about this matter?

Not sure, but they mentioned their decision was final. Guessing no one wants anything to do with a manager and director who broke the trust of their loyal customers anyway.

 

 

Get the fuck out of here with this "ski code responsible people" crap. There are signs up at the top of both parks explaining the rules of the park and yet routinely "old school skiers, adult skiers, ski instructors, racers, and other regular ski kids" IGNORE them and drop into the park runs, cut people off, sit on jumps, sit on landings and basically create unsafe conditions for everyone.

 

Yup, signs do no good. Neither does the small print on the back of lift tickets and or the skiers code which used to be boldly displayed before snowboarding existed.IMHO, everyone, including you has broken some rule or another.

I'm done arguing about racers vs park-types. It wasn't the point of the post in the first place. Continue on that subject if you like, i'll be happy to forward any more info i receive on what happened.

[burton71]

Besides, any one notice how fewer riders/skiers there were this year? Highest lift ticket prices have anything to do with that?

Didn't really notice a difference in the numbers of people from previous seasons. I know a few days they had to turn people away.

 

I did however notice that there were definitely more people this season at The Grille than the last couple of years. Most nights the bar area was packed. Also noticed that it was harder to get hotel rooms up there. The 4 times I tried to book one of the loft rooms they were all booked. Never had that problem until this season.

[Kyle]

 

Yup, signs do no good. Neither does the small print on the back of lift tickets and or the skiers code which used to be boldly displayed before snowboarding existed.IMHO, everyone, including you has broken some rule or another.

 

of course everyone has broken a rule skiing or snowboarding. let me ask you a question, do you drive the EXACT speed limit every time you drive? no. no one follows the rules 100% no matter how much they think they do. that's why deviance exists.

[Kyle]

awesome

 

I'm I the only one that thinks...Homicide when I read the title to this thread...now I have the Snoop Dogg song Murder was the case..in ma head..

 

i think physically killed for a second as well.

[Kyle]

I guess you aren't such a darsh afterall since you think like the best skier in Allentown..

well yeah because im the best skiier in west grove.

[Winter]

Winter step it up and talk to Mark at BC...

 

I met the guy once, got a funny feeling about him that didn't sit well. A good bit younger than me, in charge of quite an operation, yet i felt he wasn't even up to the task of running my company which might pull 1/10th of what they do at BC. Besides, I ski Elk mostly now, and the owner and manager there, while they have their quirks, clearly show a much better business sense about them. So no, I have no reason to talk to Mark, wouldn't any good.

[JibHonk]

Tits or Gtfo! This thread is dead

[First Grade Teacher]

It's probably the best thing that will ever happen to those 87 kids. BC isn't a ski area, it's a hotel. Nice hotel.........shitty skiing & riding. Worst mountain in PA.

Edited April 17, 2011 by First Grade Teacher

[sibhusky]

It's probably the best thing that will ever happen to those 87 kids. BC isn't a ski area, it's a hotel. Nice hotel.........shitty skiing & riding. Worst mountain in PA.

 

I don't think Buck Hill is much of a ski area, either, but it has consistently produced fantastic racers. I don't know a thing about the ski team at Bear Creek. I can say that 30 years ago I skied BC when it was Doe and that's about it. But, the area itself does not define the race team.

[First Grade Teacher]

I don't think Buck Hill is much of a ski area, either, but it has consistently produced fantastic racers. I don't know a thing about the ski team at Bear Creek. I can say that 30 years ago I skied BC when it was Doe and that's about it. But, the area itself does not define the race team.

The kids will still have more fun on a bigger hill. Looks like Buck Hill sucks worse(313 ft.)than BC. Maybe that's why Lindsey moved to Vail as a J3. Probably the same reason you moved west. Little hills suck.

[PASKIINGSUCKS]

It's probably the best thing that will ever happen to those 87 kids. BC isn't a ski area, it's a hotel. Nice hotel.........shitty skiing & riding. Worst mountain in PA.

I'm gonna take a shot in the dark and say that you must have never been to Spring Mtn.

[sibhusky]

The kids will still have more fun on a bigger hill. Looks like Buck Hill sucks worse(313 ft.)than BC. Maybe that's why Lindsey moved to Vail as a J3. Probably the same reason you moved west. Little hills suck.

 

ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL, there is no question. However, little kids are subject to their parents' interest in transporting them. I am sure a good number of these kids will NOT move on to bigger and better teams. For one thing, truth be told, there is not a lot to choose from in the Poconos to begin with. If all these kids were going to join teams in New England or the Rockies, it would be different. They are going to be dispersed, if they are "lucky", among the other teams of PARA. Can't speak to the program at Bear Creek at ALL in terms of its quality, but the other teams/coaches are not necessarily BETTER just because the mountain they are on is bigger. The fact is, many good skiers, not just Lindsey Vonn, came out of Buck Hill, demonstrating a consistent quality program.

[Glenn]

Hey shit heads, trolls and topic derailers. This is a real discussion. If you don't like it keep out. Get a clue and have some respect. Karma is a bitch.

Edited April 18, 2011 by Glenn

[JibHonk]

Hey Glenn you are just de-railing this thread even more...last I checked you're not a mod anymore so STFU

 

Quoted for truth, does FGT have a nice stash like his avatar?