Johnny Law Posted January 26, 2012 Report Posted January 26, 2012 We got peeps with On3p's and shiro's and I'm sure some other shit so post up what you think. Don't do the I spent a mortgage payment on it so they rock everything bs, we will know your full of shit when you say a 78mm sl ski totally kills the pow man!! 195 Super 7 ----------------- 6'0 180/190lbs ----------------- 2 days at Beaver and 4 at Blue ----------------- Other skis I love = 188 Legend Pro, ARG's, 184 B-Squad, 180 RC4 WC I was late to the rocker game, to be frank there is no way 1 ski can do what the ARG/praxis pow/130 does in pow while carving like a 98mm GS ski. That said the Super 7 is pretty close to being the first ski that I can truly say can almost do it all. Pros ------- First I have heard some complaints about finish, I have to say mine were perfect. No gap at the edge fold, flat bases and a bad ass factory tune. The bases are very fast and I cut myself on the edges when they were in my car. At slow to mid speeds the ski is truly amazing, short radius, long radius, PA hard pack, chop, mank, pow 100% honest to god it does it all. There is something about throwing railroad tracks on shitty PA hard pack on a 117 waist 195 ski that just makes you cackle with delight. Its an easy ski too in alot of respects, turn initiation once you account for the waist is stupid simple. Pow performance is as you would expect pretty fucking excellent, its a giant ski with huge rockered tips, point and go. In 20 years of skiing on 100's of skis this is the closest thing I've ever been on to a true all mtn ski. Cons ----------- This I think is what separates it from other skis, even with the two sheets of titanial its too soft. The regular 7 is a noodle and the Super 7 is considerably better but still not all that stiff torsionally. Additionally this ski requires tremendous balance, my calfs hurt from trying to stay balanced which hasn't happened in a long time. Perhaps most importantly this ski has no back seat, the squads will kill you if your tailgunning and most other skis will say hey dude get your ass up. The Super 7's nothing, just the same vague feeling as when your pressing the tongues. Now throw those three things together at high speed and you can see the problem. Without the stiffness they lack stability and will throw you around a bit which is bad considering the narrow balance point, lastly add in the no backseat and they do strange things at high speed. Blue has been warm so there are random piles and humps, hit one on the uphill ski in a gs turn and the ski may step out. I haven't found a consistency to it at all, at seemingly random times it will step out which at 45mpg is a concern. This is the first ski that actually bucked me and put me down in a long long time. Its hard to be confident at speed when you aren't 100% sure its going to hold the line come hell or high water, and its not fair to compare the carving performance to the LP's but that's the bar I set for it and the super 7 is close but not quite there. I know they are coming out with a Squad 7 which will most certainly be stiffer but they tend to go too far the other way where you seriously have movements when you think this ski is trying to kill me (Squad 104). Also the Moment PB&J and DPS 112RP are from the tiny bit I've ridden them better skis, though these cost me 300 and the DPS's are 1200. Overall it is an amazing ski, truly a game changer, but it isn't a full on gs ski that kills pow and while that may not be fair that is the standard. I will say for a westerner this ski would be killer as your groomers are generally in far better shape than Blue mtn. So 8.5/10 unless your 140lbs or like slow speeds. In April I will get some more time on the DPS 122RP and I'll give you a better idea of how they compare. Quote
toast21602 Posted January 26, 2012 Report Posted January 26, 2012 I can't wait to add to this after riding the Bacons tomorrow, in powder, what they thrive in. 1 Quote
AtomicSkier Posted January 26, 2012 Report Posted January 26, 2012 I'll type a full report when I return to my laptop but a few word about the Shiro's: fucking awesome. I skied Gots after skiing Shiro's...sucks in comparison. Love the width and rocker. So glad I made the purchase. Quote
toast21602 Posted January 26, 2012 Report Posted January 26, 2012 Nice man. Can't wait to see how rocker works in fresh titty sparkles. 1 Quote
GSSucks Posted January 31, 2012 Report Posted January 31, 2012 Rocker is rad and Bacon is so baller. 1 Quote
phillycore Posted February 1, 2012 Report Posted February 1, 2012 09/10 K2 Obsethed. (189) Not a 11-12 ski but I intentionally chose them because of the 105 waist compared to the current (even softer and even more rockered) 117 waisted ski. After I had purchased them, Justo had already told me that there was a speed limit on them, and no doubt he was right. In fresh they float, even with my 240# on them, soft snow no problem. They are an extremely fun ski in any soft snow. On groomers you better keep them on edge or they'll let you know that you aren't. This really becomes an issue on traverses which have been run through and are pretty grooved up, the ski will find a groove and take off and you pretty much have to muscle it back. (Justo told me that this is pretty commen with rockered skis and the Obsethed are my first go around with rocker, but I've found in the past that he's been pretty dead on accurate so I gotta believe him on this as well.) In hardpack these skis like to chatter, and I MEAN CHATTER. Chatter as in you need to make extremely wide sweeping turns on anything really steep or above 30mph or so in order so that you don't get jackhammered to death. I purchased these to use as my good at everything, but not great at anything ski and in my testing in the poconos at Jack Frost they will serve pretty well for that except for the really icy days. Out west however they pretty much took over as my powder and crud ski, but left me with a need for something more narrow. I didn't even bother taking the Rory's out of the bag and after an extremely long day at snowbasin dealing with chatter, I borrowed JF Ski Dan's set of PBR Brewski (K2 Recoil's) for the final day at Alta. (although for the snow they had there which was completely unexpected the Obsethed would've served pretty well) Overall, I'm glad I made the purchase but I'm not sure if I like the rocker or the ski itself. I do ski extremely well on them in almost every condition, but there are some serious weak spots that leave me wondering if I made the right decision or not. Quote
Justo8484 Posted February 1, 2012 Report Posted February 1, 2012 We got peeps with On3p's and shiro's and I'm sure some other shit so post up what you think. Don't do the I spent a mortgage payment on it so they rock everything bs, we will know your full of shit when you say a 78mm sl ski totally kills the pow man!! 195 Super 7 ----------------- 6'0 180/190lbs ----------------- 2 days at Beaver and 4 at Blue ----------------- Other skis I love = 188 Legend Pro, ARG's, 184 B-Squad, 180 RC4 WC I was late to the rocker game, to be frank there is no way 1 ski can do what the ARG/praxis pow/130 does in pow while carving like a 98mm GS ski. That said the Super 7 is pretty close to being the first ski that I can truly say can almost do it all. Pros ------- First I have heard some complaints about finish, I have to say mine were perfect. No gap at the edge fold, flat bases and a bad ass factory tune. The bases are very fast and I cut myself on the edges when they were in my car. At slow to mid speeds the ski is truly amazing, short radius, long radius, PA hard pack, chop, mank, pow 100% honest to god it does it all. There is something about throwing railroad tracks on shitty PA hard pack on a 117 waist 195 ski that just makes you cackle with delight. Its an easy ski too in alot of respects, turn initiation once you account for the waist is stupid simple. Pow performance is as you would expect pretty fucking excellent, its a giant ski with huge rockered tips, point and go. In 20 years of skiing on 100's of skis this is the closest thing I've ever been on to a true all mtn ski. Cons ----------- This I think is what separates it from other skis, even with the two sheets of titanial its too soft. The regular 7 is a noodle and the Super 7 is considerably better but still not all that stiff torsionally. Additionally this ski requires tremendous balance, my calfs hurt from trying to stay balanced which hasn't happened in a long time. Perhaps most importantly this ski has no back seat, the squads will kill you if your tailgunning and most other skis will say hey dude get your ass up. The Super 7's nothing, just the same vague feeling as when your pressing the tongues. Now throw those three things together at high speed and you can see the problem. Without the stiffness they lack stability and will throw you around a bit which is bad considering the narrow balance point, lastly add in the no backseat and they do strange things at high speed. Blue has been warm so there are random piles and humps, hit one on the uphill ski in a gs turn and the ski may step out. I haven't found a consistency to it at all, at seemingly random times it will step out which at 45mpg is a concern. This is the first ski that actually bucked me and put me down in a long long time. Its hard to be confident at speed when you aren't 100% sure its going to hold the line come hell or high water, and its not fair to compare the carving performance to the LP's but that's the bar I set for it and the super 7 is close but not quite there. I know they are coming out with a Squad 7 which will most certainly be stiffer but they tend to go too far the other way where you seriously have movements when you think this ski is trying to kill me (Squad 104). Also the Moment PB&J and DPS 112RP are from the tiny bit I've ridden them better skis, though these cost me 300 and the DPS's are 1200. Overall it is an amazing ski, truly a game changer, but it isn't a full on gs ski that kills pow and while that may not be fair that is the standard. I will say for a westerner this ski would be killer as your groomers are generally in far better shape than Blue mtn. So 8.5/10 unless your 140lbs or like slow speeds. In April I will get some more time on the DPS 122RP and I'll give you a better idea of how they compare. based on your gripes, you might wanna check out the 191 ON3P billy goat. i haven't ridden them, but based on them using the same construction as my jeffreys, and having a shape pretty similar to the super 7, i think they'd fill in where the 7 lacks. i skied the s7 last year in PNW glue and thought it was entirely too soft, and then flexed the super 7 in a show and it didn't feel like the difference in stiffness was enough to make up for how soft the s7 was. i'd love to get on em and check em out, but after finally getting the jeffrey in some real snow, i'm pretty sold on something a little bit burlier than what i've been skiing the past few years. landing drops felt so much more solid. maybe i'll format a nice review on em once i get the time. Quote
AtomicSkier Posted February 2, 2012 Report Posted February 2, 2012 Ok...so here is my take on the Shiro's.... Firstly, they're flat underfoot and rockered tip/tail. 119mm under foot, 150ish in the tip. 30m radius at 193cm. There really wasn't another other question about what ski I was going to get, because nothing out there really matched those specs (maybe a Blizzard that PhilPug suggested) as they were exactly what I was looking for. A normal camber underfoot early rise tip/tail wasn't an option because what's the point? It's not great at groomers and it's not great in powder. Why sacrifice? It can't do either well, and does mediocre at both. My first runs on them were at Blue. I was expecting a noodle with a floppy tip and no control or power. I was surprised...big time. My first few turns were down Lazy Mile, and wow, did they truck. But I was also surprised how easy they were to turn on groomers. They're the same radius as my Gotama's, but they were noticeably quicker edge to edge, with an additional 13mm underfoot. You do notice the width though, as you can feel how far you are off the snow when on edge. More on that later. Because they're not crazy rockered, you can still get the whole running length on the snow at moderate speeds when on edge. Fast forward to Jackson Hole. 80" in 8 days...great test of the skis. The difference was amazing in comparison to my non-rockered 190cm 106mm 30m Gotamas. The Gotamas plow through the snow while the Shiro's ride on top of it. It was instantly apparent how the rocker does an awesome job of keeping the tip up, allowing you to charge straight down the fall line in near any condition. The rocker helps manuever the 193cm boards in tighter spots, but in the really tight chutes and trees, I *do* wish I had the 183cm skis. But, trees aren't my thing, I prefer wide open faces where I can fly, hence, my choice for the 193cm. Also, the length is great for stability in chowder. At 119mm, they're pretty damn wide. You can really feel the width when you get your feet closer together to ski some bumpier terrain or make some quick turns. I could hear my skis clanking together. Not really a problem, just an observation. On some fast groomers at JH, I prefer the Got's for arcing as hard as I can, but for getting back to the lift in chowdered up shit on Groomers...give me the Gots so I can fly over it all. They're not floopy noodles at all, quite a bit of power, but very forgiving thanks to the rockered tip and tail. I'll never ski the Gots again in pow. Quote
Johnny Law Posted February 2, 2012 Author Report Posted February 2, 2012 based on your gripes, you might wanna check out the 191 ON3P billy goat. Its nitpicky stuff but some of these skis are getting really close to perfect. I have a friend who has the billy goat's I'll have to give them a ride, thanks. post Where were they made ? No metal in the Shiro so like a narrow Kuro....I'll have to get on them before I am sold, no metal normally means they deflect but peeps are really jizzing over the Shiro. This years Goats went back to Germany and apparently are much better. Quote
JFskiDan Posted February 2, 2012 Report Posted February 2, 2012 Ok...so here is my take on the Shiro's.... Firstly, they're flat underfoot and rockered tip/tail. 119mm under foot, 150ish in the tip. 30m radius at 193cm. There really wasn't another other question about what ski I was going to get, because nothing out there really matched those specs (maybe a Blizzard that PhilPug suggested) as they were exactly what I was looking for. I demo'd the Blizzard Bonafide at Alta, i was pretty much hating my recoils, as i have determined i like stiffer ski. i got on the Bonifides after some time on the Volkl Kendo the day before. Kendo's skied great, they would be a great replacement for my PE's. Not really looking to replace my PE's, kinda looking for something wider in the waste. Phillycore suggested the Mantras, (wider, and rockered) and through some research i found people felt the Bonafide skied similar to the Mantra. I saw a lot of info from Philpug, who is either getting a kickback from the manufacturer, or just really loves the ski. Bonafide is slight camber underfoot, and rockered tip and tail. i had a blast on that ski at Alta skiing all conditions, except really 100% fresh untracked powder. I dont really know why i chose the Bonafides over the Mantras, but i did, and i woud like to demo one more ski before really looking at purchasing the Bonafides. At one point i was on the Rossi S3, and as soon as i got off the lift i knew it was not the ski for me....too soft. i went back on the Bonafides to finish my day. Blizzard has a few skis in their freeride line that might be worth a test drive. Quote
Johnny Law Posted February 2, 2012 Author Report Posted February 2, 2012 Blizzard has a few skis in their freeride line that might be worth a test drive. Flipcore is making real tech heads skeet skeet all over their buyers guide. Basically you get reverse camber or rocker by flipping the mold as opposed to heating and bending, thus changing the way the wood fibers are allinged in the core. The peeps I know that have ridden their stuff are all in a huff about how quick they are and how it is a direct result of the whole flipcore thing. Who knows ? The Kendo is a shitty ski just like the s3. Noodles The Bonafide is more like the Ex 98 from Rossi but with rocker. A excellent carver that can handle a little deep. In tight bumps its going to build and buck you and the flex pattern is kind of weird in terms of the transition from super stiff tails to soft shovel. Regardless an LPR with soft snow versatiltity = boner city. The Cochise is a crazy good ski, basically a bonafide with 10mm extra. Its a very aproachalbe ski and unlike the Super 7 the fucking pintail(cochise isn't pintail) doesn't disengage when flexed on the steep groomers however it wants to arc big fuck you turns on everything. Unbelivable versatitly in this ski and they may be on to something with the Flipcore. Crazy to say but Blizzard may have the most interesting lineup top to bottom....who the hell would have thought that ? Quote
JFskiDan Posted February 3, 2012 Report Posted February 3, 2012 The Kendo is a shitty ski just like the s3. Noodles Gonna have to disagree. i found it was quite stiff. Quote
AtomicSkier Posted February 3, 2012 Report Posted February 3, 2012 Gonna have to disagree. i found it was quite stiff. i usually like to make fun of smartass, but the Kendo is the same construction at the Mantra's, just slightly narrower. So, in that case, no way it's a noodle. Mantra's are too stiff/snappy for skiing variable conditions which is why I only ski on it hard pack days at Blue, doesn't see much spring action. JohnnyLaw get the fucking titty sparkles out of your eyes. Its nitpicky stuff but some of these skis are getting really close to perfect. I have a friend who has the billy goat's I'll have to give them a ride, thanks. Where were they made ? No metal in the Shiro so like a narrow Kuro....I'll have to get on them before I am sold, no metal normally means they deflect but peeps are really jizzing over the Shiro. This years Goats went back to Germany and apparently are much better. Pretty sure they're made in China. Mantra = Mini Katana (metal) Shiro = Mini Kuro (carbon) As much as I love big beefy skis made of metal, I prefer the dampening characteristics of the carbon. Still plenty of power and stiffness, but none of the bucking that is associated with skiing my Mantra's in variable conditions. One of the downsides of the Katana for me. No metal in pow skis for me. Got's were carbon as well. Quote
sibhusky Posted February 3, 2012 Report Posted February 3, 2012 I have to second the problem with the Mantras on late day conditions. I loved them right until then and decided that I really prefer a less "lively" ski that doesn't buck me around so much. I've been demoing three days this season and so far can't find anything that meets my requirements. I have also discovered that I don't like twin tips. So far haven't been able to demo several skis I'm interested in, no one carries them around here. Quote
Johnny Law Posted February 3, 2012 Author Report Posted February 3, 2012 I have also discovered that I don't like twin tips. It was an easy way to sell skis, the full twin doesn't benefit every ski and in soft snow all other things being equal the twin will sink the tips. JohnnyLaw get the fucking titty sparkles out of your eyes. Titty sparkles forever, Volkl has always had excellent edge hold from the core profile which I think gets confused with stiffness sometimes but whatever. Maybe too much time on the squads and LP's. I'm not busting on you for the chinese deal, its just funny to me how often they move their shit around. If you can't get it right let Elan do it like everyone else. Gonna have to disagree. i found it was quite stiff. Different strokes for different folks I guess 1 Quote
Justo8484 Posted February 3, 2012 Report Posted February 3, 2012 Flipcore is making real tech heads skeet skeet all over their buyers guide. Basically you get reverse camber or rocker by flipping the mold as opposed to heating and bending, thus changing the way the wood fibers are allinged in the core. The peeps I know that have ridden their stuff are all in a huff about how quick they are and how it is a direct result of the whole flipcore thing. Who knows ? The Kendo is a shitty ski just like the s3. Noodles The Bonafide is more like the Ex 98 from Rossi but with rocker. A excellent carver that can handle a little deep. In tight bumps its going to build and buck you and the flex pattern is kind of weird in terms of the transition from super stiff tails to soft shovel. Regardless an LPR with soft snow versatiltity = boner city. The Cochise is a crazy good ski, basically a bonafide with 10mm extra. Its a very aproachalbe ski and unlike the Super 7 the fucking pintail(cochise isn't pintail) doesn't disengage when flexed on the steep groomers however it wants to arc big fuck you turns on everything. Unbelivable versatitly in this ski and they may be on to something with the Flipcore. Crazy to say but Blizzard may have the most interesting lineup top to bottom....who the hell would have thought that ? i still don't understand what flipcore is or how it makes the ski ride any different, after reading the tech manuals and watching videos about the thing. from my understanding, they're not milling their cores, they're pressing them. so they're just flipping the mold upside down, or what? pressing camber into the ski then flipping it and pressing rocker in the tip? it makes no sense to me. it's a hybrid camber ski, just like many, many others on the market. i haven't been on it, but it flexes similarly to many other skis that i like, so i don't see why it wouldn't be awesome, but i just don't understand the marketing hype behind it. Quote
Johnny Law Posted February 3, 2012 Author Report Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) i still don't understand what flipcore is or how it makes the ski ride any different, after reading the tech manuals and watching videos about the thing. from my understanding, they're not milling their cores, they're pressing them. so they're just flipping the mold upside down, or what? pressing camber into the ski then flipping it and pressing rocker in the tip? it makes no sense to me. it's a hybrid camber ski, just like many, many others on the market. i haven't been on it, but it flexes similarly to many other skis that i like, so i don't see why it wouldn't be awesome, but i just don't understand the marketing hype behind it. I don't think anyone really does as I'm not even sure how you would test something like that. Part of me says its a company trying to save money on tooling, however their skis this year particuarly the Cochise do ski pretty well. My understanding is this, you get a bunch of wood and you lay them up in a traditional sandwich construction. Then the wood core gets profiled (this along with wood choice is what gives Volkls that tremendous edge hold) then you press in the conventional sense creating a traditional cambered ski. In non-flipcore you then just change press molds add some heat and you have two cambers in one ski however the profiled core has always remained face up so to speak. In flipcore they literally flip the core so profile down, and use a rocker mold. They claim the convex press mold and the convex core creates a ski were the wood core is not stressed or bent, the so called natural rocker in flipcore skis. So wood when shaped essentially is pulled into a partiuclar shape, if you've ever stuck wood in water and then applied pressure to make a curve its basically the same thing. The wood fibers don't break they just rearange to take another shape. So in a conventional ski the wood fibers on one side of a curve must be longer than those on the other as the same amount of wood is covering two different lengths, in a flipcore ski they claim the wood fibers due to the process above are all the same length. It certainly is a new way to press reverse camber but its seems somewhat bullshitty and who really knows what that means when you actually ski on them. Skis are so personal, so subjective based on the way the particular skier rides. I have a technique that is a retard cross of Dick Durrance and late 80's pocono shuffle, alot of park, assume position and let the ski rip big arcs across the trail. Jeff moves the ski alot more side to side and is more on the balls of his feet. Both of us can ride either of those ways but choose the style that we like, I can't say one is better than the other though Jeff is probably a better super short radius guy but that certainly helps to explain why on the same ski one says its a shitty noodle and the other says its a super stiff baller. I think the real revolution is something like the Moment Deathwish, the triple camber can really make a long fat ski turn like a 87mm Sl ski but I haven't even seen those in person. WTF does this mean with Flipcore ? Who knows so here is all of next years gear - http://freeski.downd...ispo-2012-skis/ Edited February 3, 2012 by Johnny Law Quote
mollyskeeze Posted February 4, 2012 Report Posted February 4, 2012 no elan in there... bummer. cant wait to get on the tbts sometime next week. Quote
snorovr Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) Line Bacons are indeed the tits. I had last years, which I haven't skied more than 3 runs because it was a hard pack day at Blue. This years ski is just so much more versatile its amazing. Aside from park skis and the 165 RX8s I used for beer league a couple years back, I've pretty much been on something 92mm or wider for the past 5 years. When the Big Troubles first came out, it was an awesome feeling ripping down Razors and being able to lay tracks through and over just about anything as Law noted. Hopefully getting on some of next season's stuff next week... Used my Giro Seam yesterday for the first time. Fortunately no photos of the Phillycore variety and I think the helmet is okay, but definitely had a minor concussion which peaked yesterday evening. I'm sold on helmets with a vent switch, so much nicer than switching pads in and out. Edited February 5, 2012 by snorovr 1 Quote
phillycore Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 The seam is what I replaced my fubared fuse with. It seemed to fit me the best and I trust the giro line even more after what happened and I skied away. I agree vent switch is mandatory, fuse had this as well. The earpads on the seam felt really tight but I'm sure they will loosen up, if not I always have my tuneups I can toss on it. I like the stack goggle vent too. Quote
Johnny Law Posted February 27, 2012 Author Report Posted February 27, 2012 http://blistergearreview.com/gear-reviews/2012-2013-volkl-shiro Quote
AtomicSkier Posted March 1, 2012 Report Posted March 1, 2012 http://blistergearre...013-volkl-shiro I agree with a lot of the article, actually. Some things I don't, but for charging in pow, they're pretty killer. Quote
Johnny Law Posted March 1, 2012 Author Report Posted March 1, 2012 I agree with a lot of the article, actually. Some things I don't, but for charging in pow, they're pretty killer. When I saw it I had to post it, I'm stoked to get on these for sure. Quote
sibhusky Posted March 15, 2012 Report Posted March 15, 2012 Just ordered Nordica Hell and Backs. Hopefully I'll get to use them this season. Didn't get to demo them, which "goes against my religion", but several people who like the skis I've liked got them and love them. I wanted K2's, but just couldn't find a ski with the right specs. As it was, our season has been so dismal, my Outlaws were fine for just about everything but the hardpack and chickenhead days. Quote
Johnny Law Posted April 10, 2012 Author Report Posted April 10, 2012 Saw the new fischer vacuum system, cool shit that may really help some feet. Some new skis in the next few days..... 1 Quote
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