Open Date

[PASKIINGSUCKS]

You guys are all crazy. I want them to open as much as the next guy but I'm not surprised at another slow start. I don't even think the ski season is their big money maker anymore so i'm not surprised that they won't bend over backwards to open early as possible.

 

Besides, the real story to get the winter stoke going is the new feature BC ironworks just wrapped up.

 

 

BC's fault local ski shops aren't doing well?? I'm sorry I just find that laughable. Blue was open a few days last weekend, did you see the shops going nuts becuase of their early hard work??

[guitar73]

BC really isn't big enough to do the open with 1 or 2 trails thing. It would be a shit show.

 

dude, look at big boulder! that's exactly what they do and its much smaller than bear creek.

[Kyle]

 

dude, look at big boulder! that's exactly what they do and its much smaller than bear creek.

Yes but boulder doesn't have a hotel,spa, mtb trails, or do weddings in the off season.

[burton71]

 

dude, look at big boulder! that's exactly what they do and its much smaller than bear creek.

And it is usually a shit show there until they get more than Freedom open. Plus a lot of non park riders tend to stay away from BB unlike BC. Then factor in the hotel crowds and BC would be a mess with just 1 or 2 trails open.

Edited December 12, 2012 by burton71

[Winter]

...BC's fault local ski shops aren't doing well?? I'm sorry I just find that laughable. Blue was open a few days last weekend, did you see the shops going nuts becuase of their early hard work??

Uhhh, well your a bit wrong here. Ski shop business is largely dependant on opening times of the nearest ski area. The later the season starts, the less likely someone is going to invest in big purchases like skis and boots, if they can make due with what they currently have. Snow on the ground and lights on the hill gets everyone stoked and ready to spend a few $$$. Lights out and warm, not nearly as much. This is fact, go ask Rich Reber or Paul Prutzman.

[HouseMuzik]

You guys are all crazy. I want them to open as much as the next guy but I'm not surprised at another slow start. I don't even think the ski season is their big money maker anymore so i'm not surprised that they won't bend over backwards to open early as possible. Besides, the real story to get the winter stoke going is the new feature BC ironworks just wrapped up. BC's fault local ski shops aren't doing well?? I'm sorry I just find that laughable. Blue was open a few days last weekend, did you see the shops going nuts becuase of their early hard work??

 

See here's the problem. Bear Creek needs the ski side of its business to make things work. While its got a great hotel and other amenities, bookings were way down early last year because the slopes themselves weren't open. BC didn't lose $2 million over Christmas week just in ski revenues alone my friend. And you've apparently never worked in the ski retail industry. There is a DIRECT correlation between sales peaking and the opening of local resorts. I've found this magic date is December 15. The further past that date that the slopes open, the more of a struggle the season is.

 

You need to remember that ski shop's agreements with their vendors typically call for prices to be held until January 15. The less of this month "peak period" they have, the smaller profits will be.

 

I've heard some birdies chirping that sales are down 50% YOY in some of these stores -- that's bad considering the shit season we had last year. There's no momentum for sales this year, and with our most local resort dilly-dallying around, its giving a lot of us shop kids and managers ulcers, that's for sure.

 

Uhhh, well your a bit wrong here. Ski shop business is largely dependant on opening times of the nearest ski area. The later the season starts, the less likely someone is going to invest in big purchases like skis and boots, if they can make due with what they currently have. Snow on the ground and lights on the hill gets everyone stoked and ready to spend a few $$$. Lights out and warm, not nearly as much. This is fact, go ask Rich Reber or Paul Prutzman.

 

Thanks Winter, you obviously know what you're talking about. My concern is Bear doesn't even appear to be trying. I cannot figure out for the life of me how in the hell we were in the upper 20s at a lower elevation and the wet bulb temps all around Bear are at least at marginal for snowmaking. Tonight.. its even colder, and the lights are out.

 

The sad thing is, and i hear it daily, is there's a growing impression out there that Bear Creek does NOT know what it's doing when it comes to snowmaking. that's not a good thing to have out there if you're a ski area...

[Winter]

Well said Musik. Not sure what angle you have/had with the industry, but you seem to see it from the side I've been on. When you see things from the front of the ticket window, you can speculate all you want but working behind the scenes gave me a whole 'nother view of problems and mis-managment. Not sure whats going on at BC now-a-days, but it's not just the outside affairs that are going south, it's inside too.

[Kyle]

Guns are still on, doesn't look like they got too much done. They seem to only be blowing on Blackbear, possible hike park this weekend?

[burton71]

Guns are still on, doesn't look like they got too much done. They seem to only be blowing on Blackbear, possible hike park this weekend?

Guns were at least one trail on the other side as well.

[toast21602]

Seems like concentrating all their efforts on one run seems like a good plan for BC. Will keep BC riders happy.

 

that's probably a good option for them. just to have something open.

[burton71]

My concern is Bear doesn't even appear to be trying. I cannot figure out for the life of me how in the hell we were in the upper 20s at a lower elevation and the wet bulb temps all around Bear are at least at marginal for snowmaking. Tonight.. its even colder, and the lights are out.

 

The sad thing is, and i hear it daily, is there's a growing impression out there that Bear Creek does NOT know what it's doing when it comes to snowmaking. that's not a good thing to have out there if you're a ski area...

The snow making window didn't start until around 5 this morning. Temps stayed in the low 30s and the humidity was almost 80% before that...that isn't marginal, that is bad.

Edited December 13, 2012 by burton71

[toast21602]

and they just posted that the guns are off. bummer. maybe tonight will be better? its crazy how different the temps range between all the area mountains.

[Kyle]

Actually I don't see them being able to do anything this weekend, hike park included. I looked at the webcam on my phone and it looked like they had more down. 4 hours of production isn't enough. Good to see white on the ground again though

[guitar73]

The snow making window didn't start until around 5 this morning. Temps stayed in the low 30s and the humidity was almost 80% before that...that isn't marginal, that is bad.

 

doh!

[burton71]

Not sure whats going on at BC now-a-days, but it's not just the outside affairs that are going south, it's inside too.

[toast21602]

[RidgeRacer]

Bear creek is just in a shitty location. Sucks.

[Justo8484]

maybe they could add some more vert? oh wait, they did that...

[burton71]

If that's all they can blow when it gets down to 24 in Allentown they are doomed. Winters keep getting warmer.

What does the temp in Allentown have to do Bear Creek?

[burton71]

Well in an average winter it doesn't get colder than 24 in Allentown more than a few times so therefore Bear Creek needs to step it up on the cold nights. What they blew today prob gonna melt.

Stop talking out your ass. The AVERAGE low for Jan and Feb is under 24 (19 and 22) and Dec is 24.

 

But again...that is Allentown which has fuck all to do with Bear Creek.

[Winter]

Guns were at least one trail on the other side as well.

 

Oh yeah!! The backside bowls of Bear Creek! Forgot about that southern facing side.

[skifreak]

The sad thing is, and i hear it daily, is there's a growing impression out there that Bear Creek does NOT know what it's doing when it comes to snowmaking. that's not a good thing to have out there if you're a ski area...

 

That's it right there. The biggest mistake was going with 100% fan guns. That may work ok for Boulder, but they are in a colder climate. You want different guns in marginal temps, which BC is very prone to getting especially early season. Don't get me wrong, they will put out a lot of snow quick when it's cold, but it has to be cold. All the good it is when you get a cold snap for a few days and can open with almost 100% terrain only to have a thaw for over a week and then you can't make snow.

 

I know I haven't been on here in awhile, but if you go back through my old posts you will see I mentioned this before several times. People thought I was crazy, but the OG's on here know that when it comes to snowmaking, I know what I'm talking about.

Edited December 13, 2012 by skifreak

[Winter]

I spent a bit of time with the SMI folks when they came in to re-do Sno mt. years ago. What i found interesting was the amount of time spent analyzing climate, wind, slope width, slope pitch, tree cover, historical weather etc. before recommending a package of guns. They dropped 1.2mil on this and best i can tell it was pretty well spent, save for they should have added more of them and worked a better deal with the city to use more water. As far as BC goes, id have thought the same consideration would have gone into their purchases since 2000. Don't know for sure. What i do know and what ive said before, is management has pissed off the snowmakers and groomers enough that they leave for better places and more $$$ when they get some experience. That in itself will cause a negative effect on conditions.

[HouseMuzik]

Well said Musik. Not sure what angle you have/had with the industry, but you seem to see it from the side I've been on. When you see things from the front of the ticket window, you can speculate all you want but working behind the scenes gave me a whole 'nother view of problems and mis-managment. Not sure whats going on at BC now-a-days, but it's not just the outside affairs that are going south, it's inside too.

 

All in retail. Five years, Compared to Paul and Rich, no 20-25 years here.. but I've heard their stories. Last season was a historically bad season.. perhaps the worst in nearly 20 years (some of our reps said nationwide it was the worst ever -- some of these have been in the biz three decades or more).. so this season was going to be tough.. even if it was better, which so far it has. BC seems to think they can survive without the ski side.. but wait until Blue puts a resort on its hill. BC's business will take a nosedive. And that seems to be the going rumor now.. with the new mgmt at Blue, they're going to reach for the stars.. and if I owned that place, hell, i'd be taking BC head on too

 

If that's all they can blow when it gets down to 24 in Allentown they are doomed. Winters keep getting warmer.

 

This. Global warming or not, winters are warmer. BC needs to be ready for this, and prepared to blow in marginal conditions. It's only going to get worse.

 

I spent a bit of time with the SMI folks when they came in to re-do Sno mt. years ago. What i found interesting was the amount of time spent analyzing climate, wind, slope width, slope pitch, tree cover, historical weather etc. before recommending a package of guns. They dropped 1.2mil on this and best i can tell it was pretty well spent, save for they should have added more of them and worked a better deal with the city to use more water. As far as BC goes, id have thought the same consideration would have gone into their purchases since 2000. Don't know for sure. What i do know and what ive said before, is management has pissed off the snowmakers and groomers enough that they leave for better places and more $$$ when they get some experience. That in itself will cause a negative effect on conditions.

 

Talking with an employee of BC two days ago i can attest to this. He said that there is practically no one left on the snowmaking team now that has an appreciable amount of experience.. and in his own words "they're not that bright." When your own employees are candidly saying to people that there's problems.. better fix it. Just looked at the forecast.. Bear's gonna be lucky to open up Christmas week at the earliest. Meanwhile.. all the local slopes will be open. And Spring Mountain's pushing to open this weekend? If Spring is open before Bear, that just shows you how f**ked up things are at BC.

[poconoceancity]

Spring always opens before BC...they blow the heck out of that one trail.