1/13 Still can't see you.... And Demo day.

[vinnyv11]

Headed up to camelback this morning mainly so I could participate in the demo day. We arrived around 7:45 and booted up to head out. The demo day didn't start until 9 but the Scott rep was pretty cool so he let me sign a waiver and take a pair of Dozers out. Headed up and made a run down asp which shocked me how nice it skied. The new skis really powered through the crud and turned like a gem. After a couple more runs including rocket and Marjorie's I headed down to switch up skis. Got a pair of Rossi 88's which I really enjoyed. The ski just turns like its on auto pilot and really rips in the spring snow. Hit up Tuts and asp to try them out. After returning and heading back out I wanted to get a pair of atomic theory but they were out so I hit the Vokl tent for some mantras. I'm not sure if it was my inexperience with a significantly longer ski or a much wider base but I couldn't get the ski to turn as well as I'd like so after my runs down big pocono and asp I headed back down. Theory's out again so I tried the Scott crusade as it was comparable. Hit rocket and asp and this ski moved the conditions were spring slush but this thing ripped effortlessly. Finally got on the theory for a run on rocket and asp and I found consistent feel with the crusade. This was the end of the demo day so after getting back on to my own skis we stopped for lunch.

 

After lunch was the real workout of the day as we headed over to the other quad. We headed down nile mile which had piles with some brown in spots but was skiing pretty well and fun. I realized how much benefit the other skis i demoed would have been on this trail as the piles were there to be driven. After this run we lapped cliffhanger which my normal experience consists of ice... This trail was awesome today with soft snow and snow piles up so you could hop your way down. Lots of fun as we hit another run on Nile and a couple more on cliff.

 

We hit up a couple more runs but at this point my legs were burning so after a quick refuel in the bar we hit the main blacks on the quad and ended the day on asp which at this point was becoming dangerous as the fog was raising and with the low light the snow was damn near impossible to pick up.

 

All in all I had a lot of fun today with the exception of the lack of visibility made it tough to pick up the bumps in the snow and wearing my googles was pretty much a waste of time. Got to try some new skis and put in some much needed ski time.

 

Hoping the weather treats is right going forward.

[Ride Delaware ?]

Nice TR Vinny!!! Glad to see you got to check out so many different skis... Lots of our patrollers ski Mantras and seem to like them, but I hadn't heard any specifics on length etc...

[Johnny Law]

Nice dude ! Demo days are fun.

 

If you already know this then feel free to call me a condescending douche but the main reason those skis feel different is turn radius. Turn radius is actually a very complicated concept that includes things like flex profile and side cut and physics but theoretically its the tightest circle the ski could make.

 

So the Rossi Experience 88 has a turn radius of 16 meters whereas the Mantra has a turn radius of 25.4 meters, thus they are very different skis. The EX88 is a turny mother, real easy to get them to move but its going to be more difficult to arc big radius turns and obviously the opposite for the Mantra. Now obviously that isn't the total of everything that goes on in a ski but its the quickest way to evaluate a ski.

 

Sub 15m - Sl ski, lots of turns, real easy initiation

15-20m - More like a GS ski, wants to arc bigger turns, probably the top for mortal mogul skiers (excluding reverse camber designs)

20m - 30m - Super G, real big arcs for peeps that want to go very fast, tush pushers look elsewhere

30m+ - Go straight, go very very fast in a straight line LOL I have a pair of 104 Squads with a 39m radius, amazing ski but by far the most difficult conventional ski I've ever skied on. Always trying to kill you, I would bet in AK or something similar they are insane amounts of fun but you really have to push a ski like that, lots of leg and crazy high angles.

 

Reverse camber has changed alot of this because big skis then ski very short, a 195 super7 has an effective length of maybe 170. So a giant pow ski actually skis like a mid range upper gs ski as its effective length is short and has a mid 20's radius.

 

Stiffness of the ski is also very important a ski can be torsionaly stiff so force applied in a twisting motion or more conventional up and down stiffness. I would argue the later is far less important, additionally the stiffness generally varies over the length of the ski. Again this isn't a guarantee but generally a soft ski is more forgiving, easier to maneuver but flaps around at decent speeds. A stiffer ski is less forgiving to operator error but is a more put together package, it can handle big speeds and big skiers.

 

Lastly swing weight is also important but there isn't hard and fast rules there, conventional wisdom says make them light at the ends to make them easier to throw around and have them torsionally stiff to counteract deflection but DPS thinks differently and Stephen Drake it seems is always about 5 years in front of everyone else.

 

This obviously isn't the end all be all but understand turn radius and stiffnes you can actually figure out what ski is for you.

 

EDIT: I did ski the 88,98, 83 and the Mantra, Goats, Shiro so I think the above is accurate when you actually ski them as well.

Edited January 14, 2013 by Johnny Law

[vinnyv11]

Nice dude ! Demo days are fun.

 

If you already know this then feel free to call me a condescending douche but the main reason those skis feel different is turn radius. Turn radius is actually a very complicated concept that includes things like flex profile and side cut and physics but theoretically its the tightest circle the ski could make.

 

So the Rossi Experience 88 has a turn radius of 16 meters whereas the Mantra has a turn radius of 25.4 meters, thus they are very different skis. The EX88 is a turny mother, real easy to get them to move but its going to be more difficult to arc big radius turns and obviously the opposite for the Mantra. Now obviously that isn't the total of everything that goes on in a ski but its the quickest way to evaluate a ski.

 

Sub 15m - Sl ski, lots of turns, real easy initiation

15-20m - More like a GS ski, wants to arc bigger turns, probably the top for mortal mogul skiers (excluding reverse camber designs)

20m - 30m - Super G, real big arcs for peeps that want to go very fast, tush pushers look elsewhere

30m+ - Go straight, go very very fast in a straight line LOL I have a pair of 104 Squads with a 39m radius, amazing ski but by far the most difficult conventional ski I've ever skied on. Always trying to kill you, I would bet in AK or something similar they are insane amounts of fun but you really have to push a ski like that, lots of leg and crazy high angles.

 

Reverse camber has changed alot of this because big skis then ski very short, a 195 super7 has an effective length of maybe 170. So a giant pow ski actually skis like a mid range upper gs ski as its effective length is short and has a mid 20's radius.

 

Stiffness of the ski is also very important a ski can be torsionaly stiff so force applied in a twisting motion or more conventional up and down stiffness. I would argue the later is far less important, additionally the stiffness generally varies over the length of the ski. Again this isn't a guarantee but generally a soft ski is more forgiving, easier to maneuver but flaps around at decent speeds. A stiffer ski is less forgiving to operator error but is a more put together package, it can handle big speeds and big skiers.

 

Lastly swing weight is also important but there isn't hard and fast rules there, conventional wisdom says make them light at the ends to make them easier to throw around and have them torsionally stiff to counteract deflection but DPS thinks differently and Stephen Drake it seems is always about 5 years in front of everyone else.

 

This obviously isn't the end all be all but understand turn radius and stiffnes you can actually figure out what ski is for you.

 

EDIT: I did ski the 88,98, 83 and the Mantra, Goats, Shiro so I think the above is accurate when you actually ski them as well.

 

Great info here much appreciated. I'm looking for something that can handle the rare east coast powder/crud but that I can still get into the trees/bumps with which why I wasn't going for a huge ski under foot. Seems like there are a lot of options that will serve my purpose that I could still use day to day on the east coast. Coming from my first pair of skis (Atomic Smoke) so this is a whole different monster.

[RidgeRacer]

Great info here much appreciated. I'm looking for something that can handle the rare east coast powder/crud but that I can still get into the trees/bumps with which why I wasn't going for a huge ski under foot. Seems like there are a lot of options that will serve my purpose that I could still use day to day on the east coast. Coming from my first pair of skis (Atomic Smoke) so this is a whole different monster.

I wanted an everyday driver that skied similar to the k2 public enemy. Took my chances after reading numerous good reviews on the Salomon twenty twelve and these skis have exceeded my expectations. I believe the name was changed to the rocker 2 or something similar for this year. Based on what you're looking to ski for these may be for you. The twenty twelve is a 91 - twin rocker. Very light which will help in the trees. You should be able to get a good deal on them. Otherwise the rocker 2 has an extra millimeter but otherwise the same thing.

[Johnny Law]

^ not shitting on anyone, I do the exact same thing but in my whole life I've heard maybe once somebody say bad shit about a ski they own.

 

Skis are like sexual orientation, very personal and alot about what works specifically for you.

 

Ride a bunch of skis across the turn radius spectrum, pick skis that are directional and have twin, ride conventional and those with rocker. Ride god damn everything and then you can picture the perfect ski in your head, then try to find it.

 

Additionally once you know what you like you can find people that ride with your same style and see what they think.

 

Atomic is a great skier, I don't doubt his ideas on gear but I would almost never buy a ski he says is fantastic on his advice alone. We ski very differently and what is a great ski for him might be total shit for me.

[AtomicSkier]

Atomic is a great skier, I don't doubt his ideas on gear but I would almost never buy a ski he says is fantastic on his advice alone. We ski very differently and what is a great ski for him might be total shit for me.

 

What ski do I own isn't fantastic? Mantra? Gotama? Shiro? I'm so glad I switched to Volk...I haven't found a ski in their big boy lineup that isn't awesome (Mantra and up). Going to add Katana's to the quiver to replace the aging Gots. It's also about time to replace my current Mantra's with the latest rockered version.

[AngryHugo]

Atomic is a great skier....

 

.....but a shitty dresser

[AtomicSkier]

.....but a shitty dresser

 

I guess you haven't seen Johnny Law's 2013 outfit.

[phillycore]

I have to agree with Johnny Law on pretty much everything he said in this thread. I personally have owned a slew of skis and I can ALWAYS find something I like about each one of them to "validate" my purchase. I can also find something about each one of them that I don't like. I treat skis like Wilt Chamberlain treated women....

I find something that I'm happy with and ride the shit out of it than move to the next one when I'm bored with it. If I really like riding it, I keep it around for a little while, but I'm always looking for something fresh...

[Johnny Law]

What ski do I own isn't fantastic? Mantra? Gotama? Shiro? I'm so glad I switched to Volk...I haven't found a ski in their big boy lineup that isn't awesome (Mantra and up). Going to add Katana's to the quiver to replace the aging Gots. It's also about time to replace my current Mantra's with the latest rockered version.

 

LOL

 

I guess you haven't seen Johnny Law's 2013 outfit.

 

In my defense I have poor eyesight (20/100) and wear nothing but boring blacks and greys to work everyday. Skiing is fun, skiing is living so throw on some bird sex colors and have a good time.