I heard a rumer that camelback bought or is buying sno

[Ride Delaware ?]

If Camelback buys Sno and puts in some modern lifts and maybe regrades all the flats mid mountain it could make the place a big player in the ski resort game. With the $30 million water park project I don't think Blue has the resources to buy another ski area. Anybody know about how much money Sno is worth?

Somebody said the debt alone was $27 million, so it depends on whether you regard value as infrastructure, or infrastructure and debt. Like Johnny Law said, any sale will not be infrastructure and debt as is now, the debt will need to be restructured or reduced.

[poconoceancity]

Trump Plaza just sold for 20 million.

[moe ghoul]

If Camelback buys Sno and puts in some modern lifts and maybe regrades all the flats mid mountain it could make the place a big player in the ski resort game. With the $30 million water park project I don't think Blue has the resources to buy another ski area. Anybody know about how much money Sno is worth?

 

Somebody said the debt alone was $27 million, so it depends on whether you regard value as infrastructure, or infrastructure and debt. Like Johnny Law said, any sale will not be infrastructure and debt as is now, the debt will need to be restructured or reduced.

27 or 2.7? There is no way that place has incurred 27 million secured and unsecured. I've never been there and I'll wager the place isn't worth more than 8-10 mil, and that's prolly being generous.

[NMSKI]

Debts "exceed" $24.2 million (ouch) while a 2010 appraisal estimated the value at $27 million.

[moe ghoul]

Debts "exceed" $24.2 million (ouch) while a 2010 appraisal estimated the value at $27 million.

There must be a lot more to it than I'm thinking for that kind of appraisal. 24 in debt is insane.

[moe ghoul]

I forgot they had the waterpark.

[NMSKI]

Just remembered they have that zip line thing too.

[Ride Delaware ?]

I forgot they had the waterpark.

And getting that thing running was an absolute disaster... Two ish years late and way over budget... You know it's bad when you have to put the lazy river in twice...

[Ski2Live Live2Ski]

If Sno winds up getting prices similar to Camelback, that will keep me away, unless there is a serious upgrade like high speed lifts replacing Long Haul and Phoebe Snow.

As is, the discounts entice me to do the extra drive from points south once or twice a year to ski the challenging stuff at the bottom.

[trackbiker]

Another article on the auction from yesterday:

 

http://thetimes-tribune.com/news/sno-mountain-heads-to-auction-this-week-1.1449417

 

From what the experts are saying it looks like Sno is worth about 25% of what the debt level is. I guess 25 cents on the dollar is better than nothing. I hope the seller feels the same way and doesn't let the place close.

[Johnny Law]

That's actual reporting with like numbers and stuff.....

 

The ski industry certainly doesn't need it but this should be one of a billion reminders in why throwing money at a hill can fuck your shit up. Read the article and the real problem sticks out like GSS in a memorials conference, 12 million for the snow cove with 4 mil in annual income. That's a Vegas like bet that peeps are going to flock to Scranton to ride a lazy river.

 

Anyone know Blue's situation, Cash and debt, straight cash ? They are in a much better position to borrow money but you can see the same underlying problem, too big for your britches syndrome.

 

What is wrong with just having a place with frozen water on inclined planes, throw up a couple lifts and a building to cook shitty food in. Every place doesn't need a million room hotel with spa and conference center, water park, casino and a banana stand.....

[moe ghoul]

 

If Camelback buys Sno and puts in some modern lifts and maybe regrades all the flats mid mountain it could make the place a big player in the ski resort game. With the $30 million water park project I don't think Blue has the resources to buy another ski area. Anybody know about how much money Sno is worth?

 

I've never been there and I'll wager the place isn't worth more than 8-10 mil, and that's prolly being generous.

 

Somebody said the debt alone was $27 million, so it depends on whether you regard value as infrastructure, or infrastructure and debt. Like Johnny Law said, any sale will not be infrastructure and debt as is now, the debt will need to be restructured or reduced.

 

Snö Mountain's EBITA from recent gross income totals would be about

$800,000 to $1 million, he said, and a property's market value generally

is equal to EBITA multiplied by about 5.5.

 

"I don't see anything higher than a $6 million asking price on that,"

he said. "It would be way over the top and would be much too rich, given

the risk that would have to be taken."

[trackbiker]

Phew! They paid $5.1 million in 2006; spent an additional $19+ million; and now it's worth between $4.4 and $6 million. What a bunch of shrewd inventors! (Why aren't the emoticons working? I could use a few here.) They'll have to change that saying, "How do you make a million dollars in the ski industry?....Start with $24 million! )

[Skiier14]

Anyone hear anything from the auction today?

[riderossi]

Bank was the highest bidder..

[Ride Delaware ?]

Unless they lease out the operations while looking for another buyer who puts up an offer they like, this isn't good for Sno...

[toast21602]

trouble.

[guitar73]

i think jim morrison put it best....."this is the end"

Edited March 1, 2013 by guitar73

[JFskiDan]

http://m.citizensvoice.com/news/berks-county-bank-high-bidder-for-sno-mountain-1.1451897

 

There was a bid just below what the bank bid. So, there could be some neegotiations there. Maybe the bank has already negotiated a deal of its own, most likely someone is going to need some credit, and who better to lend it out. I think interest from a loan of that size is a pretty big chunk of change. I dont think this is the end of sno mountain. At least i hope not.

[sibhusky]

The interest is only worth it if you get the principal back. I'd say the bank's out a lot of money for the first fiasco.

Edited March 1, 2013 by sibhusky

[guitar73]

Camelback bid one million..what a joke..

 

that's probably just the land value, lol....

[sibhusky]

Was the bid below the back actually the current owners?

[Ride Delaware ?]

If I read it correctly, it seems to be one of the equity partners that currently owns the company, but it is not the current management company?

[riderossi]

http://m.citizensvoice.com/news/berks-county-bank-high-bidder-for-sno-mountain-1.1451897

There was a bid just below what the bank bid. So, there could be some neegotiations there. Maybe the bank has already negotiated a deal of its own, most likely someone is going to need some credit, and who better to lend it out. I think interest from a loan of that size is a pretty big chunk of change. I dont think this is the end of sno mountain. At least i hope not.

The only reason the banks bid was so close was because there was only two bidders and the bank is already out millions. They were going to keep bidding the price up for "free"basically, to get their money back all the way up to $8.9 million. They simply just outbid the partners by a million because they were then waiting for the partners to go 1 million higher, then they would bid up again. It's not like the partners needed only $1 mill to buy the place...more like $4 million.

 

I'm sure if the partners or Camelback were willing to spend 7.5-8 million there may have been a small chance the bank would have taken a little hit to get most of it's money back, but they weren't going to take a $4 million + hit.

[JFskiDan]

^^ i get that the bank would have kept bidding it up. They outbid the partnership by 100K. My point is, i still think there will be future negotiations on the property. I think the bank would prefer to have a stack of green, rather than the property.