Lights? We don't need no stinkin lights!

[Freeski919]

Alright, this is something that has bothered me for a long time now, and it was just brought back to mind because my wife is down in PA right now, and she told me she saw the lights on at Blue. My question is... why? Why the fuck are the lights on now? Why are they on at 2 AM during the season?? What a massive waste of money. Some might say 'oh, its for the snowmakers and the groomers'. Bullshit. The snowmakers and groomers at most mountains work just fine in the dark. Hell, the groomers are made for it, and have massive banks of lights all over them. It just annoys me because that's a shit ton of money that the mountain turns around and has to extract from their customers in the form of lift ticket prices, food, etc.

 

Anybody have any clue how Blue justifies this massive waste of its customers' money?

[sibhusky]

They have the lights on here too for grooming.

[AtomicSkier]

Advertising? You can see the Blue Mtn lights 20+ miles away. I see them from ABE airport on my way to Blue...the same way I see Bear Creek's lights on my way home from Blue at the top of Airport Road.

[Justo8484]

Advertising? You can see the Blue Mtn lights 20+ miles away. I see them from ABE airport on my way to Blue...the same way I see Bear Creek's lights on my way home from Blue at the top of Airport Road.

odds on that coming out of their advertising budget?

[toast21602]

odds on that coming out of their advertising budget?

 

goose egg.

[Shadows]

Advertising? You can see the Blue Mtn lights 20+ miles away. I see them from ABE airport on my way to Blue...the same way I see Bear Creek's lights on my way home from Blue at the top of Airport Road.

 

id rather see an orange glow instead of that stupid cross ontop of the hill in bethlehem.

[Freeski919]

Who cares its their money.

 

Actually, its your money that you're giving them to waste. I'd be annoyed if I paid for a pass and realized a chunk of it was paying for keeping lights on when there's no good reason to have them on. I never paid for a pass at Blue, and didn't pay full price for anything and it still bothered me. Besides the monetary issue, is it really okay for a company to be grossly wasteful for no particular reason?

[Shadows]

they are taking drinking water and making snow with it for people to slide down and youre complaining about lights being on?

[poconoceancity]

Doesn't all the water go back into the ground and re-enter the drinking supply?

[Shadows]

sure, along with drift and different nucleation substances.

the point was that it takes power to divert drinking water for your enjoyment.

[Ride Delaware ?]

they are taking drinking water and making snow with it for people to slide down and youre complaining about lights being on?

Most likely short sighted. Most water is either from a pump or a stream and is not filtered like drinking water. Could it eventually be used for drinking if it is filtered? Yes. Is it actual drinking water when it's being blown? No.

[Freeski919]

they are taking drinking water and making snow with it for people to slide down and youre complaining about lights being on?

yup. because there is a clear reason why they are taking water and making it into snow. On the other hand, the lights have no reason to be on. What if you said you'd help out with your brother's electric bill, and you went by his house one day and realized he leaves every single light and electrical appliance on while he and his entire family are at work. wouldn't that annoy you?

 

I think part of my annoyance comes from living in Vermont, where we're a wee bit more conscious about things like this. If Bolton Valley left their lights on all night, in full view of Burlington and the rest of the Champlain Valley, they'd get ripped apart for being such d-bags.

Edited November 24, 2013 by Freeski919

[sibhusky]

Most likely short sighted. Most water is either from a pump or a stream and is not filtered like drinking water. Could it eventually be used for drinking if it is filtered? Yes. Is it actual drinking water when it's being blown? No.

These issues are huge in certain parts of the country, clearly not in the rainy mid Atlantic region. That aerated water blown into the sky didn't all fall down on the hill. And as it lays on the hill, it's not all melting into the ground it came from.

I actually have water rights, and they are secondary to those of the town below me. I can only take a certain amount of water from the aquifer. The ski area has the same issue. Once the snowmaking pond is empty, that's it for the winter.

 

We also have dark skies ordinances, which apparently don't apply to the ski area. Means I can't see the Northern lights as they are north of me.

Edited November 24, 2013 by sibhusky

[toast21602]

if you have a problem with it, why don't you ask them why they do it? bitching on here won't do anything about it.

[skifreak]

I think it is probably more of a liability issue than any thing else why they leave the lights on. Think about it. What stops some bozo from trespassing after hours to make some turns? Sure, the guy is trespassing and in the wrong but when he gets hurt that won't stop some ambulance chaser lawyer from making the case that the mountain had lights and should have had them on.

 

When you are making snow you definetly need those lights on. The guns on one trail alone make white out conditions, especially when it is windy. The guy making snow might have a head lamp but that won't do much for him, especially when walking on rocks along side the trail.

 

Now when they have the lights on the past few weeks all night long when they have no snow on the trails or any chance of making snow, then I think that is a waste unless they have the mountain crew doing maintenance prior to making snow. For what it is worth, I can see both BC and Blue from my yard. All winter long they both leave their lights on all night.

 

Heck, these days I own a used car dealership. I guess I'm foolish for lighting up my display area all night and wasting money. The state says I only need to light my lot up if I am open for business when it is dark outside for customers to see the vehicles. But after I close I think it's a good idea to leave the lot lit so I don't become an easy target for thieves and vandals. Plus it helps the infared lights on the security cameras to see better

[Freeski919]

if you have a problem with it, why don't you ask them why they do it? bitching on here won't do anything about it.

 

I live in Vermont now. It isn't really going to affect me one way or the other in the end. Just a bug in my rug, so to speak.

 

I think it is probably more of a liability issue than any thing else why they leave the lights on. Think about it. What stops some bozo from trespassing after hours to make some turns? Sure, the guy is trespassing and in the wrong but when he gets hurt that won't stop some ambulance chaser lawyer from making the case that the mountain had lights and should have had them on.

 

When you are making snow you definetly need those lights on. The guns on one trail alone make white out conditions, especially when it is windy. The guy making snow might have a head lamp but that won't do much for him, especially when walking on rocks along side the trail.

 

Now when they have the lights on the past few weeks all night long when they have no snow on the trails or any chance of making snow, then I think that is a waste unless they have the mountain crew doing maintenance prior to making snow. For what it is worth, I can see both BC and Blue from my yard. All winter long they both leave their lights on all night.

 

A liability issue? I'm sorry, no lawsuit would go anywhere on those merits. In fact, leaving the lights on leaves the mountain more open to liability of a lawsuit. If all the lights are on, the skier has a better case to say he thought the mountain was open. The bank doesn't leave its lights on all night so the late night bank robbers don't get hurt.

 

And no, when you are making snow you absolutely do NOT need the lights on. It would appear your knowledge of skiing and how ski areas work is extremely limited. If you travel anywhere North or West of Pennsylvania to ski, what you will quickly realize is that night skiing is not a universal phenomenon. Here in Vermont, there are thousands of miles of ski trails.Only a tiny fraction of those ski trails have lights strung. Maybe 1%, definitely no more than 3%. And yet, most Vermont ski areas average above 85% snowmaking coverage. Right this very second, I am absolutely certain that Stowe, Killington, Jay, Okemo, Stratton, and others are all blowing snow. It's after 10PM on a late November night, absolutely pitch black outside my window in northern VT. And I absolutely guarantee you that at not one of those resorts is a single trail light lit.

[Ride Delaware ?]

And no, when you are making snow you absolutely do NOT need the lights on. It would appear your knowledge of skiing and how ski areas work is extremely limited. If you travel anywhere North or West of Pennsylvania to ski, what you will quickly realize is that night skiing is not a universal phenomenon. Here in Vermont, there are thousands of miles of ski trails.Only a tiny fraction of those ski trails have lights strung. Maybe 1%, definitely no more than 3%. And yet, most Vermont ski areas average above 85% snowmaking coverage. Right this very second, I am absolutely certain that Stowe, Killington, Jay, Okemo, Stratton, and others are all blowing snow. It's after 10PM on a late November night, absolutely pitch black outside my window in northern VT. And I absolutely guarantee you that at not one of those resorts is a single trail light lit.

Agreed. I worked in Maine last year and am now at Sugarbush, and nearly every resort north of PA makes snow without lights. Many of them (Hunter, SR, and KMart) are snowmaking powerhouses and they fare just one without it. It really is an additional expense that really isn't necessary. Is it a nice luxury to have to make it easier on your employees? Yes. Do the costs outweigh the benefits? That's personal opinion for each resort, but I highly doubt it.

[sibhusky]

They only have lights on here where they have night skiing. Even on the nights there is no night skiing. Now, there's a high correlation between where they MAKE snow and the night skiing areas, but they don't need to make snow once they get going. They have groomers over the whole mountain working without any lights beyond what's on the groomers, so it's not for grooming. So, left with advertising. Looks cool though.

[Shadows]

this reminds me of those stupid candles in house windows.

yea, looks real cool lady.

[Shadows]

i dont care either way.

[RootDKJ]

By leaving the lights on during operations, they may have a more favorable rate per kilowatt hour when they are at peak demand. Snowmaking requires massive amounts of energy. Ask them on faceplace.

[Kyle]

Who honestly cares? With the amount of money blue brings it I bet every pass holder pays less than 5 cents a year for those lights to be on after hours.

[RidgeRacer]

Unless your an environmentalist pissed about the wasted electricity or whatever, then I can't really see what the issue is.

 

I would guess that blue has their reason for it. Trust me, I've worked at resorts. Ski areas are cheap. All of them. Thus I really believe that blue isn't frivolously pissing money away then saying "oh well, we'll just pass it on to our customers". There's probably a method to their madness. Like Toast said, why not ask them.

 

Blue is in a prominent location and shows well (like a legit mountain). By prominent, I mean it can be seen from lots of places. Have you ever driven down maury road or 534 or 209 at 2am and seen it all lit up miles away? It gives me a ski boner every time. It just looks cool and I always point it out to whoever I'm with. Maybe it's their way of advertising. Yep here we are. We're bad ass looking compared to big boulder or jack frost. Come spend $ here. I personally think it's cool.

[Ride Delaware ?]

By leaving the lights on during operations, they may have a more favorable rate per kilowatt hour when they are at peak demand. Snowmaking requires massive amounts of energy. Ask them on faceplace.

Depends on where they are and how they buy their electricity too. In ME, ski resorts buy their energy in bulk. SR would buy a chunk of Kilowatt hours first thing in the season at X rate and then use it throughout the season. Often times, they would overbuy energy and then sell it back to the electric company at a higher rate during peak demand seasons such as Christmas. SR and SL jointly employ a person to manage their electric usage throughout the season. They said that they were able to pay for almost a month worth of snowmaking by just selling energy back during peak demand.

 

In Vermont on the other hand, most electric companies will not sell in bulk and often sell electric on an as used basis. That's why many resorts (Sugarbush) have much tighter budgets and are more conservative with making snow only at max production. Other resorts like Killington circumvent that by using diesel generators to power their snowmaking. Almost all primary lift drives are powered by electric off the grid with diesel backups.

Edited November 24, 2013 by Ride Delaware ?

[poconoceancity]

Ski freak has a used car lot. That's pretty cool man. Good for you.