7 years old and still my go to

[phillycore]

I've had a slew of skis over the years, and I can't say that I've ever owned a pair that was bad. Putting that into perspective though, that simply means that I've found some way to justify my purchase. Every pair of skis ever made however is good at something.

Getting to my point here... I still find myself going back to my 07 K2 public enemy 179 skis the most. They're pre rocker days, they are a little shorter than I usually care for, they are narrower waisted than I'd like and some days I wish they were just a tad less stiff but there's no such thing as a perfect one quiver ski.

 

I would like some recommendations here just for an idea of where to start looking for the future

 

I want to find a new every day go to ski

 

I pretty much have it in my head that I want something in the 180 - 190 length range with a waist size somewhere between 93-103 with a smaller turning radius that can handle everything the same way my PEs do. I prefer twin tips as I ski backwards a lot when teaching and it's just a personal preference for me. I'm not hell bent on brands, or looks, or even price. I just want a baller replacement for my PE

 

I'm just curious to see what you guys think and that would give me a starting point to demo I guess.

[mbike-ski]

Sounds like a prophet

[phillycore]

That's been on my short list to demo for a while, they get good reviews in the rags too. If I am remembering correctly either the 98 or 100 gets rated higher pretty consistently though for some reason.

[Justo8484]

Sounds like a prophet

if he's looking for something softer than PEs, the prophet 98 isn't the ski.

 

The k2 shredditor 102:

http://k2skis.com/skis/mens/shreditor-102

 

On3p kartel 98: medium flex jibby all mountain ski with a approx. 19-20m radius in the longest size, not out til next year

http://on3p-ski-company.tumblr.com/post/75112805494/this-one-maybe-the-most-anticipated-kartel-98

[AtomicSkier]

PE's are pretty damn soft. I'd say Mantras/E98s/Prophet 98s. The Prophet 98s are the turniest and would probably be the best option.

[phillycore]

I don't want to go much softer than the PEs. They're damn near perfect for me. Longer and wider with a sub 20 turn radius is more important.

 

Justin recommended the PEs for me way back when and pretty much nailed it.

 

I'm 6'1 and a Clyde so the longer the better pretty much. Only downside to that is gets tight in the trees but I manage pretty well swinging the 186 obsethed around in there Those skis kick ass in the pow but chalky snow or speed and it's a jackhammer

[RidgeRacer]

Phillycore looking to go sub 100 in the waist? Did someone log into your PASR account? lol.

[phillycore]

Yeah I know right. Lol

[AtomicSkier]

I love my Mantras...184cm, a little tip rise (very minimal), metal, and 25m radius. It works great for Blue.

 

For JF? Probably not. Know anyone with Prophet 98s?

[phillycore]

I love my Mantras...184cm, a little tip rise (very minimal), metal, and 25m radius. It works great for Blue.

 

For JF? Probably not. Know anyone with Prophet 98s?

No unfortunately I don't offhand.

The mantras definitely fit your skiing style with those high speed wide gs turns. I've slowed down a bit since I've really skied with you, but I actually turn now instead of just deviating from the fall line.

 

I have to ski with the rest of the PASR crew one of these days soon, I miss skiing with everyone.

[phillycore]

The shreditors look interesting too.

 

The E98 aren't a very forgiving ski from what I've read. I really like that about the PEs you can usually save yourself in a lot of situations that you know you most likely shouldn't have been able to bounce back up in.

Edited February 24, 2014 by phillycore

[phillycore]

Phillycore you've got to get up to Blue sometime soon!!!!

I could probably take a half day from work one of these days and shoot up for a night session, I'd be better off planning it a week in advance so I could get a letter and save myself some coin in the process though. My weekends are shot though, Saturdays I'm at JFBB and Sunday through Wednesday I have my kids so that's always priority número uno

[phillycore]

Wow you are a busy man...is Michael still skiing? Be happy you got partial custody of the kiddos that's better than most fathers get. Jack Frost usually closes before Blue so maybe we'll see you at Blue some late season Saturday!!!!

Fwiw, I share equal custody of the kids. Mike hasn't skied in a few years actually, but hoping to get him out soon. Paid daily visits would be the reason frost closed before blue, it surely won't be due to conditions.

$50 to ski blue for 2 hours with you guys on a Saturday before you're in the lot and I'm waiting in a long ass line. Maybe gaper day because the parking lot party would be worth it.

[toast21602]

I'd chip in a few bucks to get you to come

[Johnny Law]

I post this every time but stop taking recommendations on specific skis, that is pretty much useless, people mostly post shit they have. Saying something like you need a prophet is bullshit, why ? What specs is that related to ? I'm not saying there wrong I'm saying the method of hey I need new skis, oh yeah buy X is a terrible way to buy skis.

 

What do you like about the PE's ?

 

What do you not like about the PE's

 

What is it you don't like about the other skis you own and what is it that other skis you own do better than the PE ?

 

Skis have a radius, this is the tightest turn they can make, its almost always listed in meters. Alot of times it will be stamped somewhere on the ski. So lets say you have the 104Bsquad and you ski that and say this is a bad ski, it doesn't turn nearly as easily as the PE. No shit the PE is probably a 20r ski and the Bsquad 104 is a 35m radius ski. It doesn't mean the Bsquad is a bad ski it means the riders both don't understand it nor skis in general. So lets say you like the PE's but you wish you could push them more, longer faster turns on skis that just murder chop, said shit heads would say the Bsquad is a bad ski but again that's not serving you that's bullshit.

 

Here's what you do, first and foremost find out what radius you like to ski at. If you feel the PE is making the perfect kind of arcs for your skiing it's a 16-20 meter radius ski. That's pretty turny, not SL turny but it's very easy to get up on edge and make shorter radius turns. So when your eventually looking to replace the PE look for skis in that same radius. Unless you while skiing the PE say man I can't drive this ski worth a damn, maybe then try something with a little longer radius like a 25.

 

Radius is the primary factor when purchasing skis, if you know one fucking thing about your equipment figure out what radius you like to ride at. Or better yet buy a fuck ton of skis across the spectrum. I have 14, 17, 22.5, 23.5, 29 and 35m radius skis and I use them all at blue based on snow and what type of riding I want to do that day.

 

Second skis have different constructions that impact the stiffness you perceive. PE's are 22oz triax, torsion box. 22oz is the weight of the fiberglass used in pressing the ski, 22oz is in the upper arena. Triax is the method in which you braid the fiberglass around the wood core, triax means generally they ski will be very torsionally stiff, you can think of that as stiff in terms of twisting motions on the ski. You should note the lack of a metal sheet or carbon stringers what they do is make the ski more conventionally stiff, eg for up and down or flexing forces.

 

Third, skis have dimension. The PE is something like 120 -85-109, its a skinnier ski with higher levels of sidecut. It's simple physics if the waist is 85 and the tip is 140, the difference between those numbers is high so the curved line between those two points must be more extreme and thus what we call more sidecut. This makes the ski easier to turn but more twitchy, if you watch people ski nowdays most cannot drive a ski worth a damn, what they do is that little move where they open up a hip and bam the ski takes off, this is why gapers on Epic fucking loved the Metron, all you had to do was open up a smidge and the ski took off. Don't be so concerned with underfoot, if you can carve a 68 you can carve a 130 however the angulation will be different and narrower skis are more nimble in a sense.

 

Fourth skis have camber. This has been used recently to market skis to idiots, catch free rocker man !!!!!!! however it can be quite important. On hard snow you want a ski where the underfoot is higher than the tips and tails or positive camber. In soft snow or powder this setup forces the tip down or tip dive which means the rider generally will ride way in the back seat to get the tips up. This gives less control and is more tiring, so a very smart man figured you could simply reverse the camber, have it so for soft snow the tips and tails are above the underfoot and thus when riding in powder the tips would plain and you could ride in your normal position and have really pressure the boots. Full reverse sidecut, reverse camber skis fucking murder pow but they suck in everything else, you can't carve them as a matter of physics so some other smart people figured out why not combine a hard snow ski and a soft snow ski. These are the fun shapes, like a super 7. It has traditional camber underfoot and reverse camber aka rocker in the tips. It can carve and run pow pow, it's a do everything though they never do a specific condition better than a dedicated ski, though that requires a quiver.

 

This is an oversimplification certainly but you get the idea. What you like if I understand you is a shorter radius 20 or so meters ski, that is torsionally stiff but softer traditionally. Positive camber with maybe a little bit of tip rocker, decent amounts of sidecut for easier turn initiation aka a forgiving fun ski. The PE just happens to be an example of this ski, lots and lots of people make this ski in pretty much every brand.

 

I'm not shitting on anyone I'm saying educate yourself if your gonna drop some bones on new boards. The Line prophet 90 is an 18m radius traditional carver it's super similar to the PE and actually a good recommendation though it does have a metal laminate so it's going to be a smidge stiffer but you maybe didn't know any of that and that's a bad way to buy skis.

 

Lastly if you go to a demo you can say to the dude, I like low 20 radius, directional carvers, that are torsionally stiff but forgiving and fun. They he can say ok I have ski X that is similar go try them out. Then he can also say why not try ski x that is a little longer radius, with more width and maybe you like them maybe you don't but now you know skis and have actual metrics for evaluation. You get alot more out of a ski you purchase and demo days or just riding your friends boards.

[indiggio]

The Line prophet 90 is an 18m radius traditional carver it's super similar to the PE and actually a good recommendation though it does have a metal laminate so it's going to be a smidge stiffer but you maybe didn't know any of that and that's a bad way to buy skis.

 

 

Spot on!

 

I have a pair of Line Prophet 100 and love them for long radius, all mountain carving on either hard ice, groomed and afternoon piles. Very fun ski!

 

The metal laminate is great for cruising, especially noticeable at high speeds, where it dampens the chatter and makes the ski feel more stable.

 

Forget them for bumps, too wide, too stiff! 90's would probably work better, but even they're too wide and the twin tips are annoying.

[Johnny Law]

 

Spot on!

 

I have a pair of Line Prophet 100 and love them for long radius, all mountain carving on either hard ice, groomed and afternoon piles. Very fun ski!

 

The metal laminate is great for cruising, especially noticeable at high speeds, where it dampens the chatter and makes the ski feel more stable.

 

Forget them for bumps, too wide, too stiff! 90's would probably work better, but even they're too wide and the twin tips are annoying.

 

I don't like moguls, they make my knees hurt but I do remember riding with AS one time on 188 Legend Pros, they bucked me around like a god damn horse.

 

This brings up another good point which is think about buying a ski that is inline with where you want your skiing to be.

 

I generally have lots of very stiff, long, large radius skis because I like to ski fast with long arcing turns. My short game is relatively speaking weak, so I bought a pair of sl skis and dabble in SL racing because that's something I wanted to get better at.

 

If your PE's aren't dead, keep them and ride them and maybe buy another ski that challenges you to ski things differently.

 

Also don't overlook the second hand market, lots and lots of people ski 10 days a year and sell their skis after two or three years. Almost any ski can take two mounts no problem and it will save you lots of money. 50$ grind can save your hundreds and then you can buy lots of skis and really figure out what it is your looking for in a pair of skis.

[indiggio]

This brings up another good point which is think about buying a ski that is inline with where you want your skiing to be.

 

If your PE's aren't dead, keep them and ride them and maybe buy another ski that challenges you to ski things differently.

Right on! Although that can get expensive (see next point)

 

Also don't overlook the second hand market, lots and lots of people ski 10 days a year and sell their skis after two or three years. Almost any ski can take two mounts no problem and it will save you lots of money. 50$ grind can save your hundreds and then you can buy lots of skis and really figure out what it is your looking for in a pair of skis.

Hit up the pre-season tent sales.

 

Other year, picked up a pair of Fischer racers for like $70 that looked like they were used once, if that!

 

Lots of people with money ski and they want the latest and greatest and are willing to give away their old stuff for practically nothing.

[phillycore]

 

 

What do you like about the PE's ?

Damn near everything,

 

What do you not like about the PE's

Too short , Sometimes too turny

 

 

What is it you don't like about the other skis you own and what is it that other skis you own do better than the PE ?

 

My NGP's are a 30m+ TR and it's like driving a school bus (142-115-132 @190) These like to go straight and fast and they just take up space these days.

 

Rory's are just too wide for me in most conditions, the turning radius is fine just a little larger than the PE at 24 but they aren't the easiest to get edge to edge (which is why I say too wide for most conditions I see at Frost) stiff tip, softer tail (140-113-130 @183) chatter in hard pack at speed.

 

09' K2 Obsethed are probably my second favorite, and if I'm out west or in any kind of fresh snow over 3-4" these are easily my #1, I'm not sure of the radius but just a guess in the 25 range. I love the length 189, but they ski a little short because of the early rise tip and tail, These skis do not like high speed on hard pack or groomer whatsoever, they will jack hammer the living crap out of you. (138-105-125) Best skis I own in the crud, sugar piles.

 

9th ward First Blood, (123-91-116 @180) TR 24.5 I haven't skied these in a few years but I remember them being pretty stiff and they were not very forgiving at all. They ski very long for a 180 and like speed.

When I was skiing these, I know now that I was not driving the ski and I was more-so letting the ski drive me. (basically no ankle flexing, arms down, backseat driving, hip turn type shit....lol) I will have to dig these back out to really give a fair opinion.

 

The only other ski I've had the chance to ski on was a pair of K2 PBR skis which I believe were based off the Recoil (unsure of that though) I used these out at Alta when my Obsethed had chattered me into a pulp the day prior at snowbasin on chalky snow all day. Anything that wasn't a jackhammer on my quads that day was going to be the best ski ever made to me so I can't really give any thought on them other than they worked, and I had a lot of fun on them without any real issues. They did feel softer than the PE's, I'd guess somewhere between the PE and the Obsethed. I don't know if I like it or not though, I honestly couldn't tell you.

 

 

 

Skis have a radius, this is the tightest turn they can make, its almost always listed in meters. Alot of times it will be stamped somewhere on the ski. So lets say you have the 104Bsquad and you ski that and say this is a bad ski, it doesn't turn nearly as easily as the PE. No shit the PE is probably a 20r ski and the Bsquad 104 is a 35m radius ski. It doesn't mean the Bsquad is a bad ski it means the riders both don't understand it nor skis in general. So lets say you like the PE's but you wish you could push them more, longer faster turns on skis that just murder chop, said shit heads would say the Bsquad is a bad ski but again that's not serving you that's bullshit.

 

Here's what you do, first and foremost find out what radius you like to ski at. If you feel the PE is making the perfect kind of arcs for your skiing it's a 16-20 meter radius ski. That's pretty turny, not SL turny but it's very easy to get up on edge and make shorter radius turns. So when your eventually looking to replace the PE look for skis in that same radius. Unless you while skiing the PE say man I can't drive this ski worth a damn, maybe then try something with a little longer radius like a 25.

 

Radius is the primary factor when purchasing skis, if you know one fucking thing about your equipment figure out what radius you like to ride at. Or better yet buy a fuck ton of skis across the spectrum. I have 14, 17, 22.5, 23.5, 29 and 35m radius skis and I use them all at blue based on snow and what type of riding I want to do that day.

 

Second skis have different constructions that impact the stiffness you perceive. PE's are 22oz triax, torsion box. 22oz is the weight of the fiberglass used in pressing the ski, 22oz is in the upper arena. Triax is the method in which you braid the fiberglass around the wood core, triax means generally they ski will be very torsionally stiff, you can think of that as stiff in terms of twisting motions on the ski. You should note the lack of a metal sheet or carbon stringers what they do is make the ski more conventionally stiff, eg for up and down or flexing forces.

 

 

OK....this is the part that I'm pretty freaking clueless on. I don't know what is stiff and what is soft materials wise... birch, ash, maple, poplar, hell it's all wood to me.... I don't know what pops, what is like balsa wood and what is like steel. I know that I don't like a noodle, and it's been pointed out to me before during level 1 training drills (by a seriously skilled level 3+ trainer) that it seemed as if I may not be able to fully flex the PE's. Which is the sole reason why I said that they are maybe too stiff. (I'm in a 90 flex boot and I'm 6'1 and a clyde so I couldn't see any reason why I couldn't logically be able to flex them. Conceptually I understand, just like I've learned through instructing what to look for in others....however seeing it and helping someone else is a completely different ball game than being able to see it in yourself.

 

 

Third, skis have dimension. The PE is something like 120 -85-109, its a skinnier ski with higher levels of sidecut. It's simple physics if the waist is 85 and the tip is 140, the difference between those numbers is high so the curved line between those two points must be more extreme and thus what we call more sidecut. This makes the ski easier to turn but more twitchy, if you watch people ski nowdays most cannot drive a ski worth a damn, what they do is that little move where they open up a hip and bam the ski takes off, this is why gapers on Epic fucking loved the Metron, all you had to do was open up a smidge and the ski took off. Don't be so concerned with underfoot, if you can carve a 68 you can carve a 130 however the angulation will be different and narrower skis are more nimble in a sense.

 

Fourth skis have camber. This has been used recently to market skis to idiots, catch free rocker man !!!!!!! however it can be quite important. On hard snow you want a ski where the underfoot is higher than the tips and tails or positive camber. In soft snow or powder this setup forces the tip down or tip dive which means the rider generally will ride way in the back seat to get the tips up. This gives less control and is more tiring, so a very smart man figured you could simply reverse the camber, have it so for soft snow the tips and tails are above the underfoot and thus when riding in powder the tips would plain and you could ride in your normal position and have really pressure the boots. Full reverse sidecut, reverse camber skis fucking murder pow but they suck in everything else, you can't carve them as a matter of physics so some other smart people figured out why not combine a hard snow ski and a soft snow ski. These are the fun shapes, like a super 7. It has traditional camber underfoot and reverse camber aka rocker in the tips. It can carve and run pow pow, it's a do everything though they never do a specific condition better than a dedicated ski, though that requires a quiver.

 

This is an oversimplification certainly but you get the idea. What you like if I understand you is a shorter radius 20 or so meters ski, that is torsionally stiff but softer traditionally. Positive camber with maybe a little bit of tip rocker, decent amounts of sidecut for easier turn initiation aka a forgiving fun ski. The PE just happens to be an example of this ski, lots and lots of people make this ski in pretty much every brand.

 

I'm not shitting on anyone I'm saying educate yourself if your gonna drop some bones on new boards. The Line prophet 90 is an 18m radius traditional carver it's super similar to the PE and actually a good recommendation though it does have a metal laminate so it's going to be a smidge stiffer but you maybe didn't know any of that and that's a bad way to buy skis.

 

Lastly if you go to a demo you can say to the dude, I like low 20 radius, directional carvers, that are torsionally stiff but forgiving and fun. They he can say ok I have ski X that is similar go try them out. Then he can also say why not try ski x that is a little longer radius, with more width and maybe you like them maybe you don't but now you know skis and have actual metrics for evaluation. You get alot more out of a ski you purchase and demo days or just riding your friends boards.

 

 

 

J Law, I appreciate it man..... I am just looking for reference points for ideas to demo something really, if I found something that way that I had to have than I'd bite.....other than that I'd save the money for a trip or something....

 

Not always the easiest thing to do swapping skis for a few runs when you have a 29.5 boot (329-330 bsl) lol

[Johnny Law]

Now that's what I'm talking about, that's thinking like Lincoln.

 

The PE is stiff torsionally, in sandwich construction skis a torsionally stiff ski will have better edge hold. When you get the ski up on edge if it's an old solly noodle or something similar the ski can't handle the twisting force and hence the edge won't apply even pressure. If you had a Popsicle stick and you applied twisting force the ends particularly will twist away from the axis in the center of the Popsicle stick, now if they were skis that means you can't get the same pressure on those twisted ends. Now imagine the same thing but with a steel rod, it requires exponentially more force. That's torsional stiffness, you like a ski with torsional stiffness.

 

Core wood choice is not the primary factor generally. Anything with a metal sheet is going to up the stiffness considerably, carbon rods too though you generally only see them in the tails of park skis, you want stiff tails in the pipe. Carbon construction is super light, strong but very expensive, titanial which is actually aluminum is very popular and as a metal sheet increases stiffness, Kevlar is a good dampener but a little heavy, Aluminum honeycomb is nice but expensive and can have resonance issues eg it vibrates in a not nice way. The PE has none of these stiffeners if you will.

 

The PE is 22oz triax, so you have your wood core which is strips of would glued together and then planed into some kind of shape wrapped around that is fiberglass. You can do this in two fashions biax where your wrap the two individual strands at 90 degrees or triax where you wrap three strands at 45, 0 and -45 degrees. Triax creates a torsionally stiffer ski than biax, not to beat a dead horse but you like a torsionally stiffer ski.

 

Wood can be bamboo, ash, maple, paulownia, fuma, fir, spruce, birch, aspen, poplar. Basically any hard wood that maintains it's shape and is vibration and resonance resistant. You get a set amount of stiffness from the wood but it's the additional stiffeners like a titanial sheet that really ups the game. Outside of paulownia which is a super super light wood generally used for touring skis don't get to caught up on wood choice.

 

So if you look at K2's current lineup you got the Press and the Recoil, the sight is probably too soft but if you want a twin that only leaves the press. In that case maybe try the longest 179 which is a slightly longer radius than your current PE's. Ton of skis in this range though so check them out.

[Justo8484]

Now that's what I'm talking about, that's thinking like Lincoln.

 

The PE is stiff torsionally, in sandwich construction skis a torsionally stiff ski will have better edge hold. When you get the ski up on edge if it's an old solly noodle or something similar the ski can't handle the twisting force and hence the edge won't apply even pressure. If you had a Popsicle stick and you applied twisting force the ends particularly will twist away from the axis in the center of the Popsicle stick, now if they were skis that means you can't get the same pressure on those twisted ends. Now imagine the same thing but with a steel rod, it requires exponentially more force. That's torsional stiffness, you like a ski with torsional stiffness.

 

Core wood choice is not the primary factor generally. Anything with a metal sheet is going to up the stiffness considerably, carbon rods too though you generally only see them in the tails of park skis, you want stiff tails in the pipe. Carbon construction is super light, strong but very expensive, titanial which is actually aluminum is very popular and as a metal sheet increases stiffness, Kevlar is a good dampener but a little heavy, Aluminum honeycomb is nice but expensive and can have resonance issues eg it vibrates in a not nice way. The PE has none of these stiffeners if you will.

 

The PE is 22oz triax, so you have your wood core which is strips of would glued together and then planed into some kind of shape wrapped around that is fiberglass. You can do this in two fashions biax where your wrap the two individual strands at 90 degrees or triax where you wrap three strands at 45, 0 and -45 degrees. Triax creates a torsionally stiffer ski than biax, not to beat a dead horse but you like a torsionally stiffer ski.

 

Wood can be bamboo, ash, maple, paulownia, fuma, fir, spruce, birch, aspen, poplar. Basically any hard wood that maintains it's shape and is vibration and resonance resistant. You get a set amount of stiffness from the wood but it's the additional stiffeners like a titanial sheet that really ups the game. Outside of paulownia which is a super super light wood generally used for touring skis don't get to caught up on wood choice.

 

So if you look at K2's current lineup you got the Press and the Recoil, the sight is probably too soft but if you want a twin that only leaves the press. In that case maybe try the longest 179 which is a slightly longer radius than your current PE's. Ton of skis in this range though so check them out.

 

DO NOT get the press as an all mountain ski. It is a noodle. Seriously, if you like the PEs, at least look into some of ON3Ps offerings. I'd let you ski my jeffreys, but they're mounted with pivots for a 315 boot sole, so there's not a chance your boots will fit unfortunately.

[Johnny Law]

 

DO NOT get the press as an all mountain ski. It is a noodle. Seriously, if you like the PEs, at least look into some of ON3Ps offerings. I'd let you ski my jeffreys, but they're mounted with pivots for a 315 boot sole, so there's not a chance your boots will fit unfortunately.

 

I would say don't buy any K2's but that's just me

 

He should buy 191 wren's and let me ski them.....lol......176 jeffery is like a 24 radius if I remember, maybe longer than he likes.

 

Shit there are 2000000 skis in the low 20's ride them all.

[Justo8484]

 

I would say don't buy any K2's but that's just me

 

He should buy 191 wren's and let me ski them.....lol......176 jeffery is like a 24 radius if I remember, maybe longer than he likes.

 

Shit there are 2000000 skis in the low 20's ride them all.

They're totally changing the Jeffrey next year, it's going more pow oriented compared to mine. The kartel is kinda taking the place of the jeronimo and old Jeffrey as an all mtn park ski and freestyle pow ski, respectively. The 98 was the one I figured might be along the lines he's thinking here. 20.5 in a 181, 21.1 in a 186. That's pretty well in line with what a 184 PE would be, hypothetically.

[mbike-ski]

pc I'm looking for similar ski traits although not necessarily tt's... I love my sultan 85's but will probably replace soon. short list is prophets, bonafides, hell and backs. if I stay 85ish thinking maybe brahmas or h&b steadfast

[Johnny Law]

They're totally changing the Jeffrey next year, it's going more pow oriented compared to mine. The kartel is kinda taking the place of the jeronimo and old Jeffrey as an all mtn park ski and freestyle pow ski, respectively. The 98 was the one I figured might be along the lines he's thinking here. 20.5 in a 181, 21.1 in a 186. That's pretty well in line with what a 184 PE would be, hypothetically.

 

Didn't know about the Kartel 98, that looks hot.