New Nastar Divisions

[Papasteeze]

Nastar is changing the Handicap Format!! I think the elitest USSA racers can now feel like they have something to compete while having some good fun ripping up some simple courses!!

 

Go to http://www.nastar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=5330#5330 for more info!

[skimom]

OMG, I just checked this out. It's probably good.

 

Platinum, I love it...

[Papasteeze]

OMG, I just checked this out.  It's probably good. 

 

Platinum, I love it...

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Top 5% is saying something, especially if the USSA snobs show all the former "experts" how it is done...

[skimom]

Yup, it will be good. The boys will need to push for it.

 

And, I will have my work cut out now!

[skigurl]

Interesting, sounds like fun, i really like it, it will be nice to see more USSA racers out there

[mbike-ski]

hmmm...I thought maybe I'd see Blue Mountain listed but it's not there

[skifreak]

I know it hasn't been there since we heard they were "having" it...maybe before the season starts?

[Papasteeze]

The Nastar website seems to be updated weekly as of late, I would expect that the new locations are forthcoming..

[tretiak]

i finally found out my times from march. here whoever was putting the time in the computer miss spelled my last name horribly wrong. they spelled it like so Shranotsky<--wrong right-->Suranofsky

[Papasteeze]

i finally found out my times from march. here whoever was putting the  time in the computer miss spelled my last name horribly wrong. they spelled it like so  Shranotsky<--wrong  right-->Suranofsky

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There is a solution!! Go in and create a new account. Once you have that account (log off - then log back on to see that it is active) find the "merge results" control. That should allow you to correct the spelling and keep the results from last season.

 

---- I had the same problem .. It was easy to fix....

[tretiak]

There is a solution!!  Go in and create a new account.  Once you have that account (log off - then log back on to see that it is active) find the "merge results" control. That should allow you to correct the spelling and keep the results from last season.

 

----  I had the same problem .. It was easy to fix....

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yea i decide to look at the day that we had the pasr day and did nastar and i seen northampton and sure enough it was me only my last name was butchered.

[zaldon]

it almost looks spelled right though

[Glenn]

... how does that entice more "expert" type skiers/boarders to race. I understand it's a better system but I fail to see the "bait" or incentive for the USSA type racers. Whats the point (aside from recreation) in racing on a nearly straight coarse with no real reward for racing well. Presumably top USSA racers are looking to move to the U.S. devo team (I'm a bit shaky on the order of things so if this is wrong please let me know). If NASTAR doesn't help those interests, why spend the time? I'm not saying USSA racers won't race NASTAR (they do currently) but I don't see how this change will knock open the floodgates.

 

... am I missing something?

[sibhusky]

The better skiers in USSA start to turn up their noses at USSA and do FIS races. They are NOT going to add NASTAR, no way, no how. It's not considered serious skiing. The courses are short and kind of straddle between SL and GS. Most of them can just be tucked. There is no challenge for a top USSA skier. Once you start FIS, you'll end up heading towards the NorAm circuit and the USSA Devo team. I CANNOT IMAGINE A USSA RACER WITH A POINT PROFILE BELOW 100 being caught on a NASTAR course unless they are the pacesetter.

[skimom]

I CANNOT IMAGINE A USSA RACER WITH A POINT PROFILE BELOW 100 being caught on a NASTAR course unless they are the pacesetter.

 

Now, now, Sibby. Some fast USSA racers do NASTAR because: 1) it provides opportunity to do timed practice runs so they can get objective data when they try new things; 2) They have friends who do NASTAR; and/or 3) they are smart enough to realize that going to the NASTAR Nationals provides a great excuse to travel to better ski country.

[Papasteeze]

Now, now, Sibby.    Some fast USSA racers do NASTAR because: 1) it provides opportunity to do timed practice runs so they can get objective data when they try new things; 2) They have friends who do NASTAR; and/or 3) they are smart enough to realize that going to the NASTAR Nationals provides a great excuse to travel to better ski country.

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I'm with Skimom on this one.. I would think that any race is a good race (regardless of the technical difficulty) and since the platinum division is for the top 5% then that seems like it would be a nice claim to fame or feather in their hat to place or win that race too, especially if there is no other race that week in Steamboat.

 

The Nastar event in PC was huge and it certainly gets a lot of exposure. If I were a racer and I was good, I would do everything I could to get noticed. I think anyone who thumbs there nose at any race is too scared that they will get beat

[Papasteeze]

... how does that entice more "expert" type skiers/boarders to race.  Presumably top USSA racers are looking to move to the U.S. devo team (I'm a bit shaky on the order of things so if this is wrong please let me know). If NASTAR doesn't help those interests, why spend the time?

 

... am I missing something?

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Racing is very expensive... I would think that the Savvy racer needs all the exposure they can get. Until I learn something different - there is no way that I would discourage my kids from any race, especially one this size. If the fledgling MSRT program can get Rossi to support thier cause due to thier association with Nastar, then I am imagining that other will now start following suit.

[Ski]

Sib is 100% correct...and Dthmtl, as well.

 

Sorry, but there is no benefit in getting "noticed" or getting "exposure" in ski racing. It is about the points and nothing else. You get good points by competing against the top racers on difficult courses.

 

As Sib wrote, USSA racers have no use for NASTAR. What benefit does running a flat, open GS course do for a USSA racer? It can actually create a bad habit of tucking when you should be standing on your edges. NASTAR courses also do not conform to USSA standards. Only Cliffhanger at CB is up to USSA code...could you imagine the typical CB NASTAR entrant racing down Cliffy's icy headwall after 50 ruts have built up?

 

Skimom: I love that you love NASTAR for everyone. Consider this: what USSA race would 'Dude skip for a NASTAR race? Would 'Dude rather have a NASTAR National Championship or win any regular season race in any New York or New England state? Your postitive attitude and passion for the sport is addictive in person, 'Mom. We just disagree on a few points.

 

Gary kills the competition at NASTAR because there are no Masters racers in his division that would dream of spending airfare to ski on a NASTAR National course. That's like a Division I baseball player playing on a little league field.

 

Sounds like I'm bashing NASTAR, but I think it's one of the best things in the world...for what it is: a chance for kids and adults to get a taste of gates. It is a place for people on rental gear to overcome fears. It's a place for hotshot newschoolers to ride a race course switch and a bunch of PASR to have a fun, goofy afternoon. It's a place to settle a score among friends. When I show up at our local NASTAR course, the first thing I do is help get people signed up...I often spend a 1/2 hour talking with nervous beginner skiers, giving the most basic tips. I always tell kids that smiling makes you ski faster.

 

Guess how many of those newbies will be scared off from Sunday afternoon NASTARS when they see a bunch of people in new NASTAR speed suits? And this MB's admin thought post counts would be intimidating!

 

Please don't confuse my disdain for Gary as negative feelings toward NASTAR. Gary is not NASTAR, despite what he says. NASTAR is very much franchised into what your local mountain makes it. I hope Blue aspires to be just like Montage.

 

**(Sorry, but I didn't go back and research whether it's a percentage or specific handicap that wins these skis, but the essence is the same for the following point)**

Does offering "free" Rossi race skis to people that can ski a 5HC make a difference? Absolutely not and here's why: a 5HC is married to his/her ski brand for one thing. A 5HC skier does not spend $400 airfare and $400 hotel, plus food, car, etc., to win a pair of $750 skis. Can a great recreational racer win those skis? Never. In a properly handicapped race, even a great 10 HCer cannot ski down to a 5. And just who is a 10 handicapper? Not me! Not even the best race coaches and handicappers at your local mountain. It is an award for the elite. Period.

 

Wouldn't it be a better "carrot" if it were simply a door prize? Come, race, and maybe win a great set of skis. But, just FYI: race stock skis are impossible to ski for typical recreational racers.

 

Lastly: USSA racers cannot be enticed to NASTAR. As Sib said, if you are J1/2 and therefore eligible for FIS, then that's their ONLY hope of advancing toward the US Ski Team. Getting "noticed" means entering an FIS race and scoring 35 points.

 

PS: I still think gates should be free to run at every ski area in the US. Boarders and jibbers get free parks and pipes thrown in with their lift tickets. Running a GS course is MUCH cheaper than upkeep for parks and pipes. And anyone under 18 is forbidden from skiing NASTAR unless they have their parent come to the start house. Imagine doing that to pipe boarders? The secret to NASTAR's future success is making it more newbie-friendly. And getting rid of the egomaniacal Park City jerks.

Edited August 12, 2005 by ski999

[Glenn]

... montage leaves their gates from the race team out don't they? I know zaldon and I ran through them on our way down the far (skiers) right hand side of the mountain. I always assumed the price went to keep the guy in the both and happy. Never considered the fact that the park crew comes out of the lift ticket money. Where does that money go? You said NASTAR is what the mountain makes of it, can they run it for free if they wanted to? That 18 y.o. parent consent thing is a bunch of garbage. I would definately run NASTAR more if it were free...

[Ski]

... montage leaves their gates from the race team out don't they? I know zaldon and I ran through them on our way down the far (skiers) right hand side of the mountain. I always assumed the price went to keep the guy in the both and happy. Never considered the fact that the park crew comes out of the lift ticket money. Where does that money go? You said NASTAR is what the mountain makes of it, can they run it for free if they wanted to? That 18 y.o. parent consent thing is a bunch of garbage. I would definately run NASTAR more if it were free...

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I read a Ski Mag article once that told people to simply run gates wherever you see them set up on a mountain. In reality, ski teams sell cupcakes or raffle tickets (or just outright pay extra money) to buy those gates which are fragile when smacked just right. The Montage Race Team usually- and is supposed to- posts CLOSED COURSE signs when there's unattended gates. I'd recommend avoiding those courses, but admit that I almost always bash through when nobody is looking.

 

When I worked at a NASTAR course, our mountain kept a percentage of sign-up fees. I don't know how it works now, but the people that run most courses are seasonal ski area employees on hourly wage. They get no direct benefit from turnout.

 

NASTAR is what a mountain makes of it by how friendly the staffers are and how committed they are to set gates in sketchy weather. NASTAR could be free, I suppose, if the ski area paid the entry fee they have to send to NASTAR HQ.

 

NASTAR at Montage is more of an added perk, than a money maker. I've been there on days that they've made $100 in sign-ups, yet given away $350 worth of skis and other gear.

 

And NASTAR doesn't pay for the timing gear, which can easily cost $5000. That's the #1 cost. At our private hill we aren't quite that high tech: two walkie-talkies and a stopwatch.

[Glenn]

I found making my own turns without the ruts was more fun so I probobly won't be heading through gates any time soon, but thanks for that background info.

 

Hah, $5000 for a timing gear... how much does a mountain spend to install a halfpipe or sound system, or special park grooming gear for their groomers.

 

I think the big difference is the park will bring people (which means money) in. Nastar is simply a burdon on resources. Although, if the coarse is in place already. Maybe its time to drop a few notes in the suggestion box. Maybe if we could get one mountain to change others would follow.

 

How is the NASTAR at shawnee?

[Ski]

The Shawnee NASTAR course is dead flat through the first four gates; if a racer skates three times at CB, they'll be tempted to skate six times at Shawnee. That also means it's a bad course for snowboarders. It's a 30 second course, which is good, but it's much flatter than Raceway (CB) or Montage. No real terrain, other than having to deal with a dogleg to the right. I'd rate it a C+ as far as NASTAR's go...

 

There's a actually a guy that bought great timing gear and ski areas book him for races just like a DJ. Come to think of it, both Sib and I have worked with him at CB. She was in the finish house for at least four USSA races and I was the Starter for two PA Cups on Cliffhanger.

 

Little kids love to run gates. Our weekly race series at The Hideout can get as many as 100 kids. Racing doesn't have to be about killer competition. It can be about "Wow, I made it down and went around all the gates. Let's do it again!"

[Papasteeze]

Nastar is changing the Handicap Format!!  I think the elitest USSA racers can now feel like they have something to compete while having some good fun ripping up some simple courses!!

 

Go to http://www.nastar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=5330#5330 for more info!

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Just to quote my original post! I think we are all saying the same thing.

 

BTW - the boys and I always take a western week or 2 each season. This season we will be returning to Steamboat for the 3rd time in 7 years We will be there that week. Great mountain, great park, great town. Be there if you can arrange it. I think it falls on spring break week again.

[Ski]

BTW - the boys and I always take a western week or 2 each season.  This season we will be returning to Steamboat for the 3rd time in 7 years We will be there that week.  Great mountain, great park, great town.  Be there if you can arrange it. I think it falls on spring break week again.

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Nah, you'll be at Gore in late March if things go well for Ridge.

[Papasteeze]

Fair enough - I am not up on all the dates available.. yet... The thing that bothers me most about the USSA program is that until you can start accumulating points - the program seems like it is all training. Competitive skiing is all really new to us, my only goal is to make sure that skiing continues to be fun for them. Ridge will have to decide which he wants to do when we get a little bit farther into the season.

 

 

Edit - Can you send me the link to the pertinent USSA/PARA east coast calendar dates so that I can post them? Thanks

Edited August 12, 2005 by Papasteeze