Itching to buy it. Tell me not to!

[enjoralas]

8 hours ago, eaf said:

What the hell happened to my thread?!

It's not your thread. Once you put it out there, it belongs to the people. You gotta learn to let things go.

[RidgeRacer]

7 hours ago, SallyCat said:

I basically run seminar discussions for a living and we sometimes map the conversation to see connections and diagnose problems. So I made a flow chart to examine the Thread-tastrophe that happened here this evening.

I'm not innocent, I admit that eaf. 

This chart has the advantage of representing 90% of ski-forum "help me choose a ski" discussions, so I feel that it could be a real time-saver in the future.

Near as I can figure, it all went wrong when someone mentioned skis. 

Nice! Haha

[RidgeRacer]

It's not your thread. Once you put it out there, it belongs to the people. You gotta learn to let things go.

Yup. PASR is not a place for seriousness. Not saying you can't get solid advice advice on gear or advice on a specific mountain. You certainly can. Just expect a little fuckery sprinkled in.

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

Please stay on topic everybody.  The topic is fuckery.  

[eaf]

2 hours ago, GrilledSteezeSandwich said:

Please stay on topic everybody.  The topic is fuckery.  

Well, you do that and I'll briefly revisit yesterday's skis I've tried.

The whole demoing was spontaneous as was the visit to the mountain. Mostly I guess it got triggered by the lousy Elan performance compared to the SL skis, and so I thought that the night should be good time to try things out, but now I lean more toward the idea that Elan Insomnia, being a ski from the women's Elan collection was just not up to my 170lbs on hard snow. At some point at night btw they regroomed a narrow strip on Vista, and as I was there at the right time, Elan was totally fine on fresh corduroy.

Anyway, I initially wanted to compare Nordica Enforcer with Navigator, plus also try Monster with graphene, but the shop didn't want to prepare the third pair 30 minutes before closing (didn't want to refund 30%, reschedule and overall while the regular personnel tried to be helpful, their boss behaved like a stubborn ass), so Navigator still remains a mystery to me, and in the end it was only Enforcer 93 and Monster 88, both in 177cm.

The demo established a useful baseline as far as ski stiffness is concerned: both skis were totally fine and could be bent if needed, I was afraid that Monster would be out of my reach. They of course lent themselves to faster skiing and were more stable everywhere than my Atomics SLs, but that's not because of speed, Atomics can handle speed just fine and can also be driven in big radius arches, it's because they absorb potholes and bumps better. I love my Atomics most on smooth ice because they just glide smoothly there yet holding the edge, but on frozen shit they start throwing me around.

Anyway, both skis were pleasant. Enforcer felt more refined and smooth like a car with better suspension, and with Monsters I was still feeling a lot of irregularities. The irregularities weren't really throwing me anywhere, Monsters were stable enough, but they just transmitted more, I could literally feel how the edges were crushing frozen lumps of snow, brrr. At the same time Monsters were a much better and reliable carver, it's true that they weren't as hooky as Atomics yesterday, but they would still hold the edge and would bend w/o any effort. With Enforcers I found that I had to adjust to them and be more careful, for they were less eager to start going on edge and were losing it sooner at the end of a turn. But once loaded, they held.

Both skis could cope easily with @AtomicSkier speeds, though I don't believe I'll be skiing that fast very often, and so it's useful that they have a medium radius of 17, I think I'll stick to it when looking for alternatives.

Another subjective remark is that for as long as I was on the Monsters I couldn't get away from the feeling that their front part was not made of springy wood, but of some hard and light plastic. Didn't like the graphics at all either. But that's really just being extremely subjective.

If I had to choose between the two, I'd probably lean toward Monsters because I do night skiing a lot, and they seem to be better suited for hard snow. Ideally I'd want to try them both in spring again. Just from the construction standpoint Enforcers should be better in soft snow because they have more of a rocker.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

Eaf why would you even think about skiing on women's skis??  Eaf are you just getting back into skiing or just more curious about comparing different skis?

Edited January 4, 2018 by GrilledSteezeSandwich

[eaf]

Btw, somebody has fallen off the 6-pack yesterday, right over the part where Sidewinder starts. Had to be evacuated. Use the safety bar.

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

 

I will say you definitely are good at analyzing skis.  Also I don't understand how you ski at Blue so much without having a season pass. Did you buy six time passes??

Edited January 4, 2018 by GrilledSteezeSandwich

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

4 minutes ago, eaf said:

Btw, somebody has fallen off the 6-pack yesterday, right over the part where Sidewinder starts. Had to be evacuated. Use the safety bar.

Wow just wow...that lift is slippery..and that is like a 15-20 foot drop onto a very flat slope. Maybe they already pulled the bar up.  It's insane how many people don't use the safety bar. I can't think of many worse ways to get injured or die than falling off a chairlift. Out at Jackson hole most of the locals don't put the bar down and many ski with backpacks. So stupid. Many also don't use helmets. 

Edited January 4, 2018 by GrilledSteezeSandwich

[eaf]

1 minute ago, GrilledSteezeSandwich said:

Eaf why would you even think about skiing on women's skis??

Why not? It's all subjective, they're supposed to be just lighter and have more flex. At the same time these particular skis have everything in them that good skis should: titanal, full length sidewalls. They were supposed to hold, but they didn't. Also, let's not forget that my Atomics are really women's FIS skis, I'm thinking that the men's version would take me for a ride. I'm also hearing that the upper Head Joy model being again a women's ski is found to be OK by lighter men.

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

6 minutes ago, eaf said:

Why not? It's all subjective, they're supposed to be just lighter and have more flex. At the same time these particular skis have everything in them that good skis should: titanal, full length sidewalls. They were supposed to hold, but they didn't. Also, let's not forget that my Atomics are really women's FIS skis, I'm thinking that the men's version would take me for a ride. I'm also hearing that the upper Head Joy model being again a women's ski is found to be OK by lighter men.

I could see if you were like 130 pounds.  Are women's skis cheaper??  Anyway I've never heard of a man skiing on a pair of women's skis before but different slopes for different folks. 

[RootDKJ]

24 minutes ago, eaf said:

Another subjective remark is that for as long as I was on the Monsters I couldn't get away from the feeling that their front part was not made of springy wood, but of some hard and light plastic. Didn't like the graphics at all either. But that's really just being extremely subjective.

Did you demo the 17/18 Monster?  They softened the tip ~10% over the 16/17 flavor.

I also don't like this years graphics.

[eaf]

1 minute ago, GrilledSteezeSandwich said:

I could see if you were like 130 pounds.  Are women's skis cheaper??  Anyway I've never heard of a man skiing on a pair of women's skis before but different slopes for different folks. 

I really was never going to regularly ski Elans, they're not my skis, I was only curious. But Atomics being the FIS inventory were specifically recommended from the women's line and they were right on the money. They're softer and shorter than the men's version, but in this case it works to my advantage because I'm no way a racer, and that's who the FIS skis are made for. When one says softer or easier it all depends on what the baseline is. And I'm pretty sure the price varies both ways.

[eaf]

Just now, RootDKJ said:

Did you demo the 17/18 Monster?  They softened the tip ~10% over the 16/17 flavor.

I also don't like this years graphics.

Yeah, the latest greatest.

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

Thanks for the explanations Eaf..between you, Salty and shadows there's been a lot of good gear discussions. 

[Barb]

24 minutes ago, GrilledSteezeSandwich said:

Wow just wow...that lift is slippery..and that is like a 15-20 foot drop onto a very flat slope. Maybe they already pulled the bar up.  It's insane how many people don't use the safety bar. I can't think of many worse ways to get injured or die than falling off a chairlift. Out at Jackson hole most of the locals don't put the bar down and many ski with backpacks. So stupid. Many also don't use helmets. 

nobody out here uses the safety bar.  Every lift ride I take I always say I am putting it down and I usually get eye rolls.  

[eaf]

10 minutes ago, Barb said:

nobody out here uses the safety bar.  Every lift ride I take I always say I am putting it down and I usually get eye rolls.  

I used to be like that. Lately started paying attention to falls. The amazing part is that I was riding with some juvenile boarders after the fall, got the bar down to use the foot rest and had to listen to their moans and bitching all ride long. One of them had to be either drunk or stoned. They knew about the fall and were just openly mocking the victim for not being able to sit still and straight.

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

1 minute ago, eaf said:

I used to be like that. Lately started paying attention to falls. The amazing part is that I was riding with some juvenile boarders after the fall, got the bar down to use the foot rest and had to listen to their moans and bitching all ride long. One of them had to be either drunk or stoned. They knew about the fall and were just openly mocking the victim for not being able to sit still and straight.

Wow just wow...yeah the teenagers seem most annoyed when bar goes down cause they usually have headphones on and don't hear me saying coming down. If they were moaning and bitching to me I would have told them to go fuck themselves..im not opposed to happy slapping an 8th grader...

[SallyCat]

39 minutes ago, GrilledSteezeSandwich said:

why would you even think about skiing on women's skis??

An awful lot of women's skis are the exact same as the men's model but with a different topsheet (Kendo/Kenja, e.g.). Or they'll be the same but with less metal and/or a range of shorter sizes which may work for all kinds of skiers. Basically, aside from the menopausal graphics, most "women's" skis are just for smaller, lighter skiers. Some do have more forward mount points, though, and I think some Blizzards have sidecut specifically designed around the more-forward mount point. 

I have men's skis and men's boots because of my height, weight, and circus-clown sized feet. Fine by me--I hate pink shit anyway and definitely don't want white, fur-lined boots on account of I don't live in a f***ing Bond movie. 

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

 

The chairlift incident reminds me of Epicski Bruce who used to ski with me and Atomic Jeff a lot like ten years ago.  One run on paradise a Juevenile snowboarder was sitting right after the last left corner where it was blinde from above and Bruce sidestepped back up the hill and picked the kid up and deposited him on the side of the trail.  Craziness. 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

3 minutes ago, SallyCat said:

An awful lot of women's skis are the exact same as the men's model but with a different topsheet (Kendo/Kenja, e.g.). Or they'll be the same but with less metal and/or a range of shorter sizes which may work for all kinds of skiers. Basically, aside from the menopausal graphics, most "women's" skis are just for smaller, lighter skiers. Some do have more forward mount points, though, and I think some Blizzards have sidecut specifically designed around the more-forward mount point. 

I have men's skis and men's boots because of my height, weight, and circus-clown sized feet. Fine by me--I hate pink shit anyway and definitely don't want white, fur-lined boots on account of I don't live in a f***ing Bond movie. 

 

Bahahaha and it's ok to write Fuck.  I'm actually offended by censorship. 

[indiggio]

49 minutes ago, GrilledSteezeSandwich said:

Wow just wow...that lift is slippery..and that is like a 15-20 foot drop onto a very flat slope. Maybe they already pulled the bar up.  It's insane how many people don't use the safety bar. I can't think of many worse ways to get injured or die than falling off a chairlift. Out at Jackson hole most of the locals don't put the bar down and many ski with backpacks. So stupid. Many also don't use helmets. 

Not surprising though. I've ridden with so many people that want to lift the bar the moment the chair crests the mountain and the landing comes into view.
I usually keep my skis on the footrests just to annoy people who want to lift it so soon.
The other day I had some girls freaking out as I kept my skis on the footrest to the very last support.

[RootDKJ]

Just now, indiggio said:

Not surprising though. I've ridden with so many people that want to lift the bar the moment the chair crests the mountain and the landing comes into view.
I usually keep my skis on the footrests just to annoy people who want to lift it so soon.
The other day I had some girls freaking out as I kept my skis on the footrest to the very last support.

I sometimes do that and ask if anyone wants to play "bar-chicken" going into the terminal just to see the look of horror on their faces.  Good times.

[saltyant]

4 hours ago, RidgeRacer said:

5 hours ago, enjoralas said:

It's not your thread. Once you put it out there, it belongs to the people. You gotta learn to let things go.

Yup. PASR is not a place for seriousness. Not saying you can't get solid advice advice on gear or advice on a specific mountain. You certainly can. Just expect a little fuckery sprinkled in.

Ok Cool thanks. I'll resume writing only semi serious CB TRs on Saturday.

Edited January 4, 2018 by saltyant

[saltyant]

35 minutes ago, indiggio said:

Not surprising though. I've ridden with so many people that want to lift the bar the moment the chair crests the mountain and the landing comes into view.
I usually keep my skis on the footrests just to annoy people who want to lift it so soon.
The other day I had some girls freaking out as I kept my skis on the footrest to the very last support.

I just death grip the lift when other people force the bar up without my permission. They'll fly off but ill stay on the lift just fine.