The effect of the ski width on knees

[Johnny Law]

On 1/17/2018 at 9:08 PM, SallyCat said:

So well said. As with any sport, it's relatively easy to reach a level of basic competence, but also easy to stagnate there. Progress thereafter seems to be a matter of numerous and very subtle adjustments to form.  After a lifetime of playing basketball I  can diagnose my jump shot the moment the ball leaves my hand. But skiing is a foreign physical language to me and so far all I can do is ask for directions to the train station. 

 

 

You have to ride with people that are better then you at whatever skill you want to improve.

Formal instruction is fantastic, if you have the time/money and want to spend your time doing that kind of skiing but I still think you progress faster if you ride everyday with people that ski better then you and you have the desire to improve, to take risks. Instead of an hour or two of instruction your getting lower key instruction every run.

Atomic is a really excellent carver, dude can really crank out turns and my ability to arc a turn has vastly improved riding with him alot. When you can follow somebody you can stop thinking and just do as they do, you can see what it is they are doing with their body and the line they are taking, how the skis are moving but probably more important their body position.

Sometimes I think PSIA type instruction, while very useful, fills the intermediate who wants to rip with too much bullshit going on in their head. It becomes too much of a thinking game and skiing isn't something you think about while your doing it. I mean my brain is definitely working with all due haste but I'm not thinking about press the tongues or make sure you get enough edge purchase, it's alot more of a constant animal on the savannah scanning, identify snow and smoothness add up all the factors and get in whatever turn shape/technique the scanning plus experience tells you is best and all of that is a feeling.

For those that plateau at a place they want to advance from, I say ride with people that are better then you and concentrate less on thinking about skiing and more on actual skiing.....plus there is no way around it but your probably going to have to take some real beaters lol 

[indiggio]

20 minutes ago, Johnny Law said:

You have to ride with people that are better then you at whatever skill you want to improve.

Formal instruction is fantastic, if you have the time/money and want to spend your time doing that kind of skiing but I still think you progress faster if you ride everyday with people that ski better then you and you have the desire to improve, to take risks. Instead of an hour or two of instruction your getting lower key instruction every run.

Atomic is a really excellent carver, dude can really crank out turns and my ability to arc a turn has vastly improved riding with him alot. When you can follow somebody you can stop thinking and just do as they do, you can see what it is they are doing with their body and the line they are taking, how the skis are moving but probably more important their body position.

Sometimes I think PSIA type instruction, while very useful, fills the intermediate who wants to rip with too much bullshit going on in their head. It becomes too much of a thinking game and skiing isn't something you think about while your doing it. I mean my brain is definitely working with all due haste but I'm not thinking about press the tongues or make sure you get enough edge purchase, it's alot more of a constant animal on the savannah scanning, identify snow and smoothness add up all the factors and get in whatever turn shape/technique the scanning plus experience tells you is best and all of that is a feeling.

For those that plateau at a place they want to advance from, I say ride with people that are better then you and concentrate less on thinking about skiing and more on actual skiing.....plus there is no way around it but your probably going to have to take some real beaters lol 

I think skiing with others of better ability has a certain amount of improvement benefit.
As you state, seeing how others ski and trying to mimic their movements will indeed improve your skiing, but I think only to a point.  Also, what others do may or may not be the correct (whatever that is by your own definition) way to ski.   For example, there are bumpers that do not ski them per the currently accepted form of skiing the bumps.  The old schoolers kept their hands out at their sides, using telephone pole length ski poles, which is not the way you'd be taught if you take a PSIA instruction, as they'll be having you ski a totally different line, in a totally different way.  Then there are those that bend over at the waist, limiting their ability to absorb the bumps with their knees, but they get down the bump line very well and will never change regardless of what others say their doing, in the hopes of helping them improve.   It's just the way people are.

As an alternative, a coach or instructor provides an view of what you're doing that you cannot obtain, unless you video record yourself skiing and review what you're doing.  There again, you're going to possibly make changes based on what you perceive as correct, by what you see others doing and deciding what they're doing as correct.  

In my opinion, the best way to improve is to be provided feedback on one's skiing either by friends with whom you're skiing, instructors, coaches, videos, etc.  While learning to ski moguls, coaches would, in real-time, provide instantaneous feedback (head up, hands out, pole plant, etc.), that gets ingrained into memory and also muscle memory.  However, without that feedback and the knowledge (feeling) that goes with it, you don't have the ability to correct the error, since you don't know that you're actually making the error.  You think you're doing everything correct, when you actually aren't.   

For example, you can ask Tarpon, 'll tell him that his feet weren't together at the end of a bump run.  Does he know that?  Perhaps.  But if he doesn't and someone else tells him, that feedback can be incorporated into his next run so that he does think about it and hopefully make it into his memory so he can work on something else.

[guitar73]

dilly dilly!

PSIA instruction gets too formulaic to me, that and they seem to base their technical skill set around a certain skiing aesthetic, instead of what could be truly efficient skiing (in terms of mechanics and energy exertion). I like seeing different "styles" of skiing amongst skiers. it's kind of like a fingerprint or a personality, and it allows one to really and truly "own" their skiing.

[toast21602]

If only I had RTMs to improve my skiing. 

[RootDKJ]

12 minutes ago, toast21602 said:

If only I had RTMs to improve my skiing. 

I think I saw one RTM under the lift next to 3 poles last week.  Prob covered by all the snow now.

[saltyant]

Lol i think just about every new thread created over the last month references RTMs. They sure are popular skis on here. Probably the most popular based on how they're mentioned daily. 

[indiggio]

13 minutes ago, saltyant said:

 Probably the most popular based on how they're mentioned daily. 

Jocularity is popular around these parts...

[toast21602]

12 minutes ago, saltyant said:

Lol i think just about every new thread created over the last month references RTMs. They sure are popular skis on here. Probably the most popular based on how they're mentioned daily. 

Don't get too excited about RTMs being a common theme. So is Doug and mashed potatoes. 

[indiggio]

1 minute ago, toast21602 said:

Don't get too excited about RTMs being a common theme. So is Doug and mashed potatoes. 

And hotel living...

[RootDKJ]

I could probably set up a word-replacement filter to auto-change "RTM" to "mashed potatoes" every time.

[RootDKJ]

1 hour ago, RootDKJ said:

I could probably set up a word-replacement filter to auto-change "RTM" to "mashed potatoes" every time.

Oh yeah.  Totally can do this.  I think I did something like this before and @AtomicSkier got mad at me, or something.  Lol.

[toast21602]

Shadows these windows look like a good opportunity


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Shadows]

Run past it erday. Im aware of this. Still a bit from completion. Im in contact with the main guys there

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

3 minutes ago, Shadows said:

Run past it erday. Im aware of this. Still a bit from completion. Im in contact with the main guys there

Is that the new Benner building?  My good friend dates Dennis Benners son. 

[Shadows]

Yea. Cleanup contract on stuff like this usually goes to jamitorial and they sub windows. We'll see.

[SallyCat]

5 hours ago, guitar73 said:

PSIA instruction gets too formulaic to me,

I've found that asking someone to video me with my phone is incredibly helpful. I need to be half drunk to deal with the horror of seeing myself ski, but quite seriously, it's extremely revealing. 

I've taken some one-hour lessons and don't think they helped in a lasting way. I miss being an athlete with access to coaches for consistent, real-time feedback. I reckon that skiing with better skiers who are willing to critique could accomplish something close to that. 

I often notice intermediate-level skiers (very often women for some reason) with what looks like textbook good form, but also a rigidity that makes them look like a zombie with rigor. It doesn't seem natural or fun. Maybe that's a necessary step on the way to being an expert? I dunno. It doesn't seem natural or dynamic. I would be disappointed if I saw myself skiing like that, though I know I have a lot of sloppy movement i need to quiet. 

[mbike-ski]

I really enjoyed the race clinics in the past, maybe tarpon (bump clinic) or guitar can chime in on their experience as i know there have been alot of changes over the years.

the repetition of the exercises and gate bashing was awesome to help translate some of the instruction into muscle memory and helped immensely. for me that's the challenge to maintain the fun factor balance of your zen style steeze with the "skeletal pressure you fat asshole" voice in your head.

the best part of it for me was when we would go one at a time  and listen to the coaches critique of the skier ahead and relay it them at the bottom. riding behind bernie r.  and trying to emulate his skiing and have someone who knows what theyre looking at give you some pointers  is a game changer.

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

52 minutes ago, SallyCat said:

I've found that asking someone to video me with my phone is incredibly helpful. I need to be half drunk to deal with the horror of seeing myself ski, but quite seriously, it's extremely revealing. 

I've taken some one-hour lessons and don't think they helped in a lasting way. I miss being an athlete with access to coaches for consistent, real-time feedback. I reckon that skiing with better skiers who are willing to critique could accomplish something close to that. 

I often notice intermediate-level skiers (very often women for some reason) with what looks like textbook good form, but also a rigidity that makes them look like a zombie with rigor. It doesn't seem natural or fun. Maybe that's a necessary step on the way to being an expert? I dunno. It doesn't seem natural or dynamic. I would be disappointed if I saw myself skiing like that, though I know I have a lot of sloppy movement i need to quiet. 

Are you comfortable going fast?  Sometime straightline the top half of lazy mile and when you build up speed start making short turns..youll be amazed how much less effort making turns is when going faster than slower. 

[guitar73]

I haven't taken the bump clinic, so I can only speak for my experience with the race clinic vs other lessons I have taken.

The racing clinic is waaay more focused on skiing skills for "good skiing" and that mostly translates into good racing....at least that's for the drills portion of the clinic. And it's also nice to have coaches who specialize in racing. They approach skiing differently than the general instructor who deals with the average recreational skier. Most other "general" skiing lessons i have had were OK, but much less detailed and/or technical.@tinymoose has told me that she has improved loads more with this race clinic than any of the women's clinics and other misc lessons.

I think the other thing that helped me with the race clinic is the duration. It's 6 weeks long. Of course one needs to practice on their own to improve, but the multiple sessions does provide more time for repetition of new skills and feedback of that practice.


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[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

I can tell when the race clinic is ahead when I see people carving with their tails on homestretch from afar lol 😂 

[tarponhead]

Not for nothing but this thread is starting to look like a thread from epicski

[indiggio]

11 hours ago, guitar73 said:

I think the other thing that helped me with the race clinic is the duration. It's 6 weeks long. Of course one needs to practice on their own to improve, but the multiple sessions does provide more time for repetition of new skills and feedback of that practice.

QFT!

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

1 hour ago, tarponhead said:

Not for nothing but this thread is starting to look like a thread from epicski

Eaf is straight out of Epicski..