skimom Posted October 11, 2005 Report Share Posted October 11, 2005 I just really hate Blue, its not so moch the mountain but the attitude and probably the worst snowmaking on the east coast. At the risk of being savagely attacked by someone unwilling to acknowledge anything negative about their home mountain , I totally agree. Blue's snow quality is easy to surpass. And, their lift lines can be brutal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poconoceancity Posted October 11, 2005 Report Share Posted October 11, 2005 what is the problem with Blues snow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted October 11, 2005 Report Share Posted October 11, 2005 They are great places to hang out and check out new gear. Sometimes they have knowledgable staff sometimes they have stuck up kids who give customers attitude. They are usually overpriced, and largely inconvenient for me (both in business hours and location). However... Most of my gear came from snowboard shops. Most of my gear choices came from what shop employees told me. Before I did my own waxing/base repair shops did it. My boots died mid season this past year, and I NEEDED new boots in a matter of a day or two. Ebay simply was not an option. I didn't even know where to begin with boots, and quite frankly as far as boots are concerned you need to try them on. Sure you can go home and order them on ebay after trying them out, but if I'm at the store already... Ebay also doesn't have a ready stock of the newest gear, which in the case of my next bindings is a big deal, I'll be paying full store price for them, and to me its worth it. I believe in a DIY approach to everything. If I can find a way to cut out the middle man I will. Hopefully one day I will have the resources available to never HAVE to step foot in a ski shop. In the meantime, they are rather convenient. I will add though that I bought my snowboard from ebay and saved over $200 which is facilitating my purchase of the new bindings. I don't know enough about childrens ski boots, mondo sizing etc. to comment directly on whether purchasing childrens boots is a MUST to try on before hand. I would trust '999 on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philpug Posted October 11, 2005 Report Share Posted October 11, 2005 They are great places to hang out and check out new gear. Sometimes they have knowledgable staff sometimes they have stuck up kids who give customers attitude. They are usually overpriced, and largely inconvenient for me (both in business hours and location). However... Most of my gear came from snowboard shops. Most of my gear choices came from what shop employees told me. Before I did my own waxing/base repair shops did it. My boots died mid season this past year, and I NEEDED new boots in a matter of a day or two. Ebay simply was not an option. I didn't even know where to begin with boots, and quite frankly as far as boots are concerned you need to try them on. Sure you can go home and order them on ebay after trying them out, but if I'm at the store already... Ebay also doesn't have a ready stock of the newest gear, which in the case of my next bindings is a big deal, I'll be paying full store price for them, and to me its worth it. I believe in a DIY approach to everything. If I can find a way to cut out the middle man I will. Hopefully one day I will have the resources available to never HAVE to step foot in a ski shop. In the meantime, they are rather convenient. I will add though that I bought my snowboard from ebay and saved over $200 which is facilitating my purchase of the new bindings. I don't know enough about childrens ski boots, mondo sizing etc. to comment directly on whether purchasing childrens boots is a MUST to try on before hand. I would trust '999 on that. 35360[/snapback] With ebay especially, if you don't know what you are buying...you have no business shopping there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slopeshredder Posted October 11, 2005 Report Share Posted October 11, 2005 Let's see if you can follow the logic: -People do not buy gear from shops, instead buy from Ebay -Eventually shops will have to close -Less shops/supply and more demand, prices will have to go up -Or what can happen is -Ski companies go out of business -Then where do we get our gear from????? -Are we going to pass around used gear on Ebay for eternity???? Because at the rate we are going, we are going to make the ski industry extinct.... Or we will be using someone elses used gear because no manufacturer will be able to sell equipment at a profit and they will become non existent. Hmmmm--- We better learn how to make skis ourselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidude Posted October 11, 2005 Report Share Posted October 11, 2005 Ski compainies are still selling the same number of skis...Maybe even more, since now I can buy 2 pairs of skis for a certian amount, insted of just one. So now shops may end up going out of business (eventho there are times when it is good or nessisary to buy from shops) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justo8484 Posted October 11, 2005 Report Share Posted October 11, 2005 phil, buying boots online without trying them on is very sketchy, even if they are brand new. two nordica gts8 boots in a 27.5 may very well fit differently just because the liners are not identical. also, what happens if you get the boot and it doesnt fit the way it should? you either deal with a poorly fitting boot and your performance suffers from it, or you go into a shop and end up paying even more money to fix the problem. if there's one item not to buy online, its boots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philpug Posted October 11, 2005 Report Share Posted October 11, 2005 Let's see if you can follow the logic:-People do not buy gear from shops, instead buy from Ebay -Eventually shops will have to close -Less shops/supply and more demand, prices will have to go up -Or what can happen is -Ski companies go out of business -Then where do we get our gear from????? -Are we going to pass around used gear on Ebay for eternity???? Because at the rate we are going, we are going to make the ski industry extinct.... Or we will be using someone elses used gear because no manufacturer will be able to sell equipment at a profit and they will become non existent. Hmmmm--- We better learn how to make skis ourselves. 35396[/snapback] Do you know what one of the biggest cost is to ski manufacturers is? ski shops that go belly up and never paid off their debt and the manufacturer had to write the loss off. Before you say "thats because of Ebay", sorry this has been going on long before the popularity of Ebay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slopeshredder Posted October 11, 2005 Report Share Posted October 11, 2005 The point I was trying to make is that Ebay has been around for alot less time than most ski shops. If it was not for ski shops, there would be no skis on ebay to sell or buy. So just watch out skipping the main reason you have the gear you have. The skis had to start by being intended for a ski shop. At least 95% of gear out there was first purchased by a ski shop to be sold to the public. Take that link out of the chain and there will be alot less gear around. Remember ski manufacturers do not produce skis to be sold on Ebay they make them to be sold in stores. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidude Posted October 11, 2005 Report Share Posted October 11, 2005 Remember ski manufacturers do not produce skis to be sold on Ebay they make them to be sold in stores. 35411[/snapback] I am pretty sure they make skis to sell to make $$, and whether a shop in PA wants to buy 15 pairs of 180 volkl racetigers or skidealer(on ebay) wants to buy 15 pairs of 180 volkl racetigers...I don't think they care. They make money either way... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philpug Posted October 11, 2005 Report Share Posted October 11, 2005 I am pretty sure they make skis to sell to make $$, and whether a shop in PA wants to buy 15 pairs of 180 volkl racetigers or skidealer(on ebay) wants to buy 15 pairs of 180 volkl racetigers...I don't think they care. They make money either way... 35413[/snapback] If the manufacturer could figure a way to remove the middle man of a (costly) shop, they would. One of the reasons behind integrated bindings is a step closer to minimizing the need for shops. Now, just to figure out boot fitting on line. Look at the "clearance houses" that are selling last years gear cheap on Ebay, where do you think they are getting these skis? The manufacturers are tickled pink that they skis are out of their inventories into these resellers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poconoceancity Posted October 11, 2005 Report Share Posted October 11, 2005 a sale is a sale... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 I don't buy the end of the "fill in the blank" industry because of ebay. I've heard it from the music (production, and consumtion) industry, ski, computer, etc. I haven't seen any of the industries go under. So the market changes, ADAPT. You're ski shop doesn't want to participate in the online market, it's loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 The ski manufacturing industry is unique. They work very hard to protect small ski shops. They refuse to sell to the big chains, such as Dick's, let alone Walmart. If Atomic allowed Walmart to carry skis, they would buy in tremendous quantity and sell GS:11's at a 10% markup, as opposed to ski shops 50% to 300%. I'm really not interested in subsidizing ski shops. Why would I want to pay an extra $200 for my skis to keep a ski shop in business? As Dthmtl says, times are changing...online outlet stores cannot be stopped, no matter how hard ski shops kick and scream. Did I read a ski shop rep tell us that you need a ski shop to get a good fit? That's a joke. You need a great bootfitter to get a good fit. I have easy feet and am comfortable with an across the board mid-size 28.5 boot. A large toe box boot is bad for me, as are boots with narrow toe boxes. But I know my size and would get a molded custom footbed ONLINE if I had problems. They send you the mold, then you step on it and send it back. You get a custom footbed in the mail, and they have an amazing success rate. I bought boots for my oldest at The Loft a few years ago and had to pay $20 extra for two lifters. What a rip-off that was. If ski shops had great boot fitters rather than minimum wage kids, then they'd have an arguement. In reality, go walk into Pelican's boot department and see who helps you. Or a few days ago at The Loft. That's where I was. I wanted to check out Nordica's new boot. A real boot fitter is nearly a podiatrist...and if you don't spend at least 30 minutes walking around and heating up that boot, then what you are buying is nothing resembling what you are going to be skiing in. Pay a little more? Skifreak has new GS:11's and race 4.12 bindings for $329 (I believe). Jeff and I have new GS:11 race stocks for $279. My new Atomic 6.14 race bindings were $99. My wife's new Atomic B7W skis with bindings were $248. Our neighbor's kids bought park skis: New Line 1260 Twin Tips for $133 and 2005 Line Skogen Sprang Pro Model 158's for $379. I dare any ski shop to post their prices for that gear. Go ahead, let's hear it!! Bottom line, guys. The Ski Bum has little kid ski/binding/boot seasonal rentals for $130. But theskibum mocked me when he thought I put my kid in a cheapo helmet that was dangerous around 200lb newbies. So how much is the tag on for The Ski Bum junior helmet? Do you strongly recommend helmets for kids that are renting seasonally? You seemed pretty concerned in your post about it. If so, what does that bring the $130 package to? $200? $250? I'm still waiting to hear how many front entry seasonal rental boots you have in Mondo 19 and under. Just tell us the cost! Why the secrecy? I couldn't find a single price on your website. Why not? EBay and other internet sources are the great equalizer. Equiped with a minimum of knowledge, it takes away all that car salesman crap that I hate. I had a non-skier correctly outfit her two kids online in 38 minutes by simply following four basic sizing steps. Her gear would be on her doorstep tomorrow. No carpal tunnel syndrome. Just a few hundred dollars saved. I'm starting to hear music...it's singing...a woman's voice singing for the ski shops...uh oh, I think it's the fat lady singing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicSkier Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 I paid a total of $460 shipped ($280 skis + $180 bindings) for a pair of limited production (uber rare) race stock Atomic GS:11s w/ Atomic Race 614 bindings. Hardly just a decent setup. $460 shipped. I'll repeat that again, $460 shipped. I've bought BOTH pairs of Atomics off of ebay, the first time without even trying the ski, but based it on Ski999's susggestions, and I absoloutly love the ski. My newest pair was a great find by Ski999, and I know for sure, I'll love them as much as I do my first pair... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skifreak Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 Well actually my bidnings were the race 614's if that makes any difference compared to the 412's in price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justo8484 Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 ski, if you were referring to my comment about coming into a shop to get a bootfit, i have experience with the shop i work at. we just had a clinic on bootfitting on sunday night, and i can tell you that we do more at nestors than i had ever encountered at any other shop i visited with boot issues prior to working at nestors. i can't say anything about the "custom" footbeds you order online, because i have never seen them. do they take into account the rigidity of your arch or how much flex your forefoot has? are the impressions made weighted or unweighted? is the posting firm, or soft, or nonexistent? these are all key factors in truly customizing the footbed to maximize the performance of your boots that we take into account when making the custom footbeds. you are lucky in that you have an average foot thats not that hard to find a boot that fits. most people aren't so lucky. personally, either langes or race boots are the only boots that come close to fitting me properly, and even with those, i have to blow out the toe of the boot a bit to give myself a little more room in certain areas. this is definitely not something i can get from buying a boot online. i guess my point was that, sure, you can buy boots online, and in your case it works out ok because you have easy to fit feet. most people would not encounter the same degree of success. for example, someone with a bunion needs extra room in the boot right behind their first metatarsal. the common process would be to just buy a wider boot to accomodate it, but then you have extra room in the boot where you don't want it. a good shop with a qualified bootfitter will realize that you don't need a wider boot, you just need to make more room in a specific spot, and either stretch the shell or mill it out in that area to give you the proper snug fit a ski boot should have. that's just one example of why i feel you can't go to ebay for everything, and that you can't completely write off ski shops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicSkier Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 I for one, will only buy boots in a shop. Justin, I bought my boots last year at Nestors, whats the deal w/ getting them fitted (besides footbeds) I remember the kid saying something....Was it free (it sounded like it may have been for a few months maybe...?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 ski, if you were referring to my comment about coming into a shop to get a bootfit35522[/snapback] Justo, man, I'm not bashing you at all. At least I don't mean to. I worked in a shop as a kid. I pretty much would have worked for free, too. It's the ski manufacturers that created the current situation. Trying to keep small shops in business, yet these are the same shops that certainly can't pay a competitive salary to it's employees. One rep just made fun of me, suggesting I'll get carpal tunnel syndrome trying to buy gear all summer online. Well, I sure can't buy ski gear at the two ski shops within 25 miles of me, since they are closed all summer. The future of ski boots will involve everything that ABBF certified stores cuurently do, but through the mail. There's at least 20 online places that do 3D footbed molds. And as more people buy boots online or just expect a better fit than they get in their shops, the more business these places will get. But listen, Justo: every kid that works in a shop is okay by me. But someday I'll share my personal story about the founder of Pelican Ski Shop in Whitehouse, NJ, and what that sleezeball used to do to new hires. Don't worry, Think, his odd, slave labor practice was documented in the newspapers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justo8484 Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 technically we are supposed to charge for materials. in most cases, it will come to less than $10 though, most problems are fixed with a few wrap pads or moving the position on some buckles or cuff pieces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justo8484 Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 yeah the pay is not good thats for sure. its a fun job, i get to hang out with other people who are into the same stuff as me, play with cool gear, and i get all my stuff cheap through reps. i'm curious about what the pelican guy did, wanna fill me in on that? i know of a few shop owners who arent the cleanest businessmen themselves. also do you have a link to those online footbeds? i wanna do a little comparison for my own knowledge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papasteeze Posted October 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 Ski999 - why do you go on and on with such verbose posts degrading peoples livlihoods? You constantly SEEM to pick on new members, whether it be Clinic Coaches, MB administrators, Race organizations or other passionate snow lovers who have an opinion. You SEEM to expect that everyone be as knowledgable as you and if they don't do as you do, then......? Please, I for one, would like to see this site grow and took the position here to do that, but to devalue the ski shops and other the influential new members to the point that you have, only turns away the very people who would be saying positive things about this site. I am asking you publicly to quit "calling out" and challenging others. You have a great wealth of information that could be shared in a more positive productive manner. I would appreciate your help in building this site with your knowledge not hindering it. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LineSki Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 I have feeling were not going to be hearing from ski for a while... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 yeah the pay is not good thats for sure. its a fun job, i get to hang out with other people who are into the same stuff as me, play with cool gear, and i get all my stuff cheap through reps. i'm curious about what the pelican guy did, wanna fill me in on that? i know of a few shop owners who arent the cleanest businessmen themselves. also do you have a link to those online footbeds? i wanna do a little comparison for my own knowledge. 35544[/snapback] The Pelican owner had tons of cash from his new, growing business...this was, uh, 1978-79, or so. He built a huge house and needed lots of work done, from landscape, to boulder moving, to pond digging. So he had job fairs at Pelican. And this new ski shop was where every kid I knew wanted to work. The deal was, though, that you had to work your way up to the sales floor. Starting job: work at his house. Dig ditches, spread stones on his 1/5 mile driveway, roof his garage...every sh*t job he could come up with. 25-30 kids would do this all summer long, in hopes of getting one of five store jobs. Oh, and the pay? $2.25/hr. cash, under the table. The newspapers made a big deal during the second summer after a bubbling vat of tar was spilled and burned some kids. Oh, and Papa? What's Latin for bite me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 You constantly SEEM to pick on new members, whether it be Clinic Coaches, MB administrators, Race organizations or other passionate snow lovers who have an opinion. Clinic coaches? You mean ONE clinic. MSRT. Run by a con artist. Ever hear me disparage ANY other clinic? Hmmm? He came here and told me I had no balls. He called ME out. MB Admins? These guys are my buds. I've NEVER said anything bad about Greg, Jeff, or Glenn. Ever. Or do you mean the one's that come to use for ammo to shoot down Denton's "stupid lies" by "marketing dweebs"? Race organizations? You mean MSRT? Because you've NEVER heard me say anything but glowing things about PARA, USSA, MARA, NYSEF, VARA, and even Masters. You on the other hand, have gotten a break from me. I think what you said about me behind my back was the bottom of the barrel. And it came from you and, well, someone close to you. Which is worse. Right after I crashed at a Mountain Creek slalom, I went to the hospital and had an xray and check-up. I had some sort of front-whatever dislocation of my right shoulder. With a few races left in the year, I wanted to know if I could push out of the start. And what pain I'd feel from racing. So I cut my pain killers in half and drove down to BC's NASTAR course midweek. I was feeling wicked crappy, couldn't raise my arm more than horizontal...it was a bitch just getting my clothes on. So what does everyone hear about Cole? A few days later, word gets back to me how I'm a cheater. That I cut gates trying to beat a little boy. People heard this from YOU and people "close" to you. That I was cheating like this was funny to you and people "close" to you. It was the same sort of mocking that I heard from you about your ski club that slighted you. Listen, Papa, that night wasn't about you or your kids. I was seeing if my season was over. I was scared and disappointed and mad at myself for hooking a tip in the slalom race. By the last three gates, I had to stand up and couldn't hold it. Did you happen to notice me standing up? Is that trying to beat someone? Have you ever heard me say ONE thing about ever wanting to beat ANY kid. NEVER! There's not an atom in me that desires to beat any kid period. What you did was the most offensive thing I've ever had said about me (other than from an ex-wife, of course). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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