AlpineZone Posted September 20, 2005 Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 A topic about Ski Denton came up on our forum. We had a chuckle about the "Steepest in the East" claim. So what's the deal? How steep is their "Avalanche" trail? What else does it compare to in the East/Northeast? 66 degrees?! As an aside, I've never heard of this place. I'd like to add a profile for them on our PA ski area profiles page, but their Web site is pretty lame and doesn't include the typical info - # of trails, vertical, trail difficulty breakdown, etc. Does anyone here have any stats for this place? If so, please contact me - either by PM or at contact@alpinezone.com. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThinkSnow Posted September 20, 2005 Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 Greg, We had this Discussion back in March as well... Didn't get much of any info but hey, there doesn't seem to be much out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 (edited) Sure wish we could be more help to a bunch of VT and Hunter weekend skiers that feel the need to trash talk a PA ski area. Hmmmm...starting to feel some deja vu... The vast majority of people that I've met and sometimes taught in Vermont that have a chip on their shoulder about "local" skiing have one thing in common: they are crappy skiers that want everyone to think they are better than they are. Have any of those guys skied Corbet's Couloir? Come trash talk after you have, guys. Otherwise, get over yourselves. Edited September 21, 2005 by ski999 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 Sure wish we could be more help to a bunch of VT and Hunter weekend skiers that feel the need to trash talk a PA ski area. Hmmmm...starting to feel some deja vu... The vast majority of people that I've met and sometimes taught in Vermont that have a chip on their shoulder about "local" skiing have one thing in common: they are crappy skiers that want everyone to think they are better than they are. Have any of those guys skied Corbet's Collier? Come trash talk after you have, guys. Otherwise, get over yourselves. 33494[/snapback] A quote from the discussion linked above. "Top alpinists these days work toward first descents of pitches in the low to mid-60 degrees. Steeper than that and it?s pretty much a freefall. In fact, snow?s ?angle of repose,? where snow can no longer stick to the slope, is at around 75 degrees." from: http://www.sportsguidemag.com/archive/Jan0...res-chuteme.asp Mont Blanc, Grand Teton, and Ski Denton. I wish it were true. Another thread about it here.... http://timefortuckerman.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3565 Looks like 'mum even participated. At the end of the thread he uses the same faulty math they were speaking against. He mentions that indeed the trail is not even 66% grade for the entire trail. However without riding it, you cannot make a resonable guess as the the steepness of the headwall, when there is a distinct possiblity of runnout or the like. In short... measure the angle of the slope on too short a distance, and its not very realistic, take a slope measurement over too long a distance and you lose accuracy as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 Every big mountain local can tell you a secret stash spot, or some part of a run that is somewhat hidden and only skied by people that really know the area. It's usually off of a slow lift that toursists avoid, or a lift that only gives you laps on the upper third of the mountain. I have a favorite spot at Mt. Snow (part of Ripcord), Sugarbush, and even Belleayre. All these secret spots are between 700 and 1200 vertical feet and you can find some pretty amazing skiers/boarders that rip them up all day. Is my point too subtle? I just think trashing my spot at Montage, or Atomic's favorite spot at Blue is completely ignorant, meant only to proclaim what a superior skier you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpineZone Posted September 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 (edited) Sure wish we could be more help to a bunch of VT and Hunter weekend skiers that feel the need to trash talk a PA ski area. Hmmmm...starting to feel some deja vu... The vast majority of people that I've met and sometimes taught in Vermont that have a chip on their shoulder about "local" skiing have one thing in common: they are crappy skiers that want everyone to think they are better than they are. Have any of those guys skied Corbet's Collier? Come trash talk after you have, guys. Otherwise, get over yourselves. 33494[/snapback] Yikes. Chill out. The gist of that thread was how lame the marketing slogan was, not anything against PA or small local hills. "Steepest Slope in the East" is a pretty sweeping statement. Do you actually buy into that? BTW, let's not call the kettle black. You got offended because a few members were cracking jokes about PA ski areas (you have to admit the 66 degrees comment in regards to temperature was pretty funny...). Meanwhile, you make a generalization that all AZers or anyone that skis Hunter or in Vermont don't support the local feeder hills? It's simply not true. Anyway, I applaud you guys for having a successful community site devoted to regional skiing and riding. Edited September 21, 2005 by AlpineZone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 I didn't read the first link, might have caused some confusion (at least on my end). The way I see it: Either the claim about 66 degrees is WELL founded or not. I would like to have a non mountain employee check the steepness of the trail over the steepest 60+ foot section. Granted thats still pretty short in the ski world, but its at least enough space to get a quick turn in. Hidden sweet spots, abosolutely, at CB they change week by week, based on grooming, traffic, weather etc. However, I think there is a bit of marketing involved in dentons "sweet spot." Pesonally to me, it was a fact finding mission. Maybe the guys at alpine zone just want to prove how great they are, I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicSkier Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 From what Ski999 has told me, White Lightening at Montage is steeper then Denton's trail, as they have had races on dentons trail....no way you could hold a race, for juniors, on white lightening, just WAY to steep. It was rather intimidating for PA, ever for Vermont. It rivals the stuff at Killington on Bear Mountain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidude Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 I thought we agreed on saying that had races on the trail next to the 'steep' trail at denton.... Anyway maybe at some point in my life I will ski denton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sno Mountain Skier Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 I think Dentons trail is just a small little headwall at that steep point, WHil White lighting is steep the whole way down. And yes it does rival stuff in vermont. Last year when i was at Sugarbush, there were only maybe 4 or 5 trails that were any steeper then white lighting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpineZone Posted September 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 Maybe the guys at alpine zone just want to prove how great they are, I don't know. 33523[/snapback] Oh, but we are... Honestly, AZ members are among the most civil and generally nice folks I've seen on a skiing message board. Perhaps, I'm a little biased though. The fact is that not many AZ members will let some weak marketing like this slide by. They'll call out any Vermont resort for that just as quick as any in PA... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Refugee Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 Sure wish we could be more help to a bunch of VT and Hunter weekend skiers that feel the need to trash talk a PA ski area. Hmmmm...starting to feel some deja vu... The vast majority of people that I've met and sometimes taught in Vermont that have a chip on their shoulder about "local" skiing have one thing in common: they are crappy skiers that want everyone to think they are better than they are. Have any of those guys skied Corbet's Collier? Come trash talk after you have, guys. Otherwise, get over yourselves. 33494[/snapback] Wow...you seem to be alittle defensive. No reason to be as your ski areas seem like great places to ski/ride. Corbets Couloir is not really a trail, it's gravity then survival. It's dificulty rises and falls with the snowpack. A few years ago a snowmobiler did it...now that's crazy. The Grand Teton was first skied in 1967, since then snowboarders and teleskiers have conquered it. They do not ski it as a continuous line, that would be impossible, they do rope down over a few sections. Teleskiers can ski anything a alpine skier can do. I too have never heard of Denton...my bad. That's what so great about all these forums. I love learning about new places. Hope the Farmers Almanac is right and all of us get a bunch of snow this season for some great skiing and riding. If any of you guys are coming up to New England to ski check in with us at AlpineZone and we would love to share our info or answer any questions you might have. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTmark Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 Oh, but we are... Honestly, AZ members are among the most civil and generally nice folks I've seen on a skiing message board. Perhaps, I'm a little biased though. The fact is that not many AZ members will let some weak marketing like this slide by. They'll call out any Vermont resort for that just as quick as any in PA... 33531[/snapback] so true. i dont post much over their but i read a lot of the stuff. deffently some nice people over their. and from what i've scean over their they will bash a vt resort just as fast as one of ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpineZone Posted September 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 so true. i dont post much over their but i read a lot of the stuff. deffently some nice people over their. and from what i've scean over their they will bash a vt resort just as fast as one of ours. 33534[/snapback] It's not so much about bashing a resort, as it is keeping them honest. Our ski area challenge is a great example of that. You guys are very fortunate to have this great resource as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThinkSnow Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 Thanks for the info and everything guys, keeping them honest is good for us! As far as being defensive, it seems like every day we have people coming here from one forum or another posting badness about the things we love to do, so I hope you can see how some of us can get a little defensive at times, even if your comment wasn't intended as a bash (I didn't take it as one). Bottom line, we all ski. Let's do it wherever we can and enjoy it while it's fluffy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papasteeze Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 Welcome to the board JH!! It's great to have snow lovers stop in from other parts of the country and contribute.. If you happen to hear of someone in your area making a trip down south to our neck of the woods - tell em to sign in. They will find everyone very helpful to offer advice and reccomendations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidude Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 It's not so much about bashing a resort, as it is keeping them honest. Our ski area challenge is a great example of that. You guys are very fortunate to have this great resource as well. 33536[/snapback] Thats one of the reasons this board got started....We tried to keep a resort honest on there message board....After everyone was banned Thinksnow and Atomicskier came up with another place to talk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SickToothpick Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 Well I live about 15 minutes away from Denton and lemme tell you, I've been down Avalanche and it's horrible, all ice from people snowplowing down it, you can stand at the top and look down and it looks like its hyst a big drop, it's steep, I've ridden Outer limits at Killington too and it's so much steeper than that if any one has ever ridden it just to compare the two... Maybe I can get a picture of it this year and post it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidude Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 But outter limits isn't that steep..... It would be a very long steep bump run if you skied it from top to bottom (which I would die doing). When I went and it was open 1/2 the trail was groomed and 1/2 was bumped....I took one run down each. The groomed side was a lot of fun to fly down, and the bumps, well the bumps were ugly for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 (edited) Yikes. Chill out. The gist of that thread was how lame the marketing slogan was, not anything against PA or small local hills. "Steepest Slope in the East" is a pretty sweeping statement. Do you actually buy into that? BTW, let's not call the kettle black. You got offended because a few members were cracking jokes about PA ski areas (you have to admit the 66 degrees comment in regards to temperature was pretty funny...). Meanwhile, you make a generalization that all AZers or anyone that skis Hunter or in Vermont don't support the local feeder hills? It's simply not true. Anyway, I applaud you guys for having a successful community site devoted to regional skiing and riding. 33520[/snapback] I didn't post on your MB, but you come here to tell me to chill out? You're the *sswipe that posts "Steepest Slope in the East" is a pretty sweeping statement. Do you actually buy into that?" without having even heard of the place, let alone ski it. I'm not a Denton local or even a fan of the place. I was just making fun of a group of dorky sounding guys that were ragging on a PA hill, which, in my experience, is an indication of their real abilities. You've never heard of the place, don't know if it's in the lake effect snowbelt, don't know anything about the place, but they are liars and therefore it's reasonable to make the connection that PA skiers have guns and are planning to shoot you? Classy MB, you have there. So, yes, there's at least one person here that thinks you sound idiotic. Edited September 21, 2005 by ski999 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 It's not so much about bashing a resort, as it is keeping them honest. Our ski area challenge is a great example of that. You guys are very fortunate to have this great resource as well. 33536[/snapback] So your MB's method of deciding that Denton is full of sh*t is to simply post that it is, without ANY fact? That's your way of being keeping them honest? Sounds pretty lame to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 Wow...you seem to be alittle defensive. Wow... you seem a little indignant when someone makes fun of you for mocking a ski area you've never heard of. Good luck with that Farmer's Almanac thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sibhusky Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 Ski, chill willya? They didn't come across to me as bashing us, just thinking that it was a mighty big claim...which we all agree it is. I don't know if we ever decided to believe it ourselves if I remember it correctly. And, yes it was the run NEXT to it that was used for races, not the touted 66 degree pitch run. By the way, remember that grade % and degrees are two entirely different things. A 45 degree slope is 100%. (Rise divided by run). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 Ski, chill willya? They didn't come across to me as bashing us, just thinking that it was a mighty big claim...which we all agree it is. I don't know if we ever decided to believe it ourselves if I remember it correctly. And, yes it was the run NEXT to it that was used for races, not the touted 66 degree pitch run. By the way, remember that grade % and degrees are two entirely different things. A 45 degree slope is 100%. (Rise divided by run). 33556[/snapback] Okay, Sib, this isn't bashing and we should be more polite while being called a gun carrying potential murderers: 1> "The scary part about Ski Denton, which I shall now refer to as The Extreme Skiing Capital of the East, is that Avalanche, with it's 66 degree pitch, isn't even the most difficult trail there. No, my friends, that title belongs to none other than Bear Run. Why, you might ask? I tell you. Forget single fall lines. I don't even want to hear about your puny, pathetic double fall lines. This trail sports a TRIPLE FALL LINE!!! That's right, it goes downhill, slopes a little to the right, and then actually bursts through the space time continuum such that by the time you reach the bottom, you're only starting again at the top!! Looks like The Extreme Skiing Capital of the East went to the wrong department from the local community college when they were recruiting their ace marketing guru. Instead of the the Marketing department, they took a wrong turn into Creative Writing. This stuff is priceless." 2> "About the most exciting thing about the one time I skied PA (Roundtop) was seeing Three Mile Island from the lift. Almost as scenic as Mount Airy Lodge in the Poconos - Blecchh!" 3> "All those guys in the woods of PA (skiers included) carry guns, dude ! They'll be hiding in the woods near Paradise, and Goat, and The Black Hole, etc., etc., just a waitin' to pick us off one by one. I'm moving to South America..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papasteeze Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 Ski999 - Please stop escalating the harsh negative pointless comebacks to new members. Posting comments from other boards here for what appears to try and start another flame war are very tiring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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