BB opens tomorrow!!!!!

[JFskiDan]

With...........(drum roll please)

 

 

tannenbaum. 
unless i am reading their FB post wrong. Thats pathetic. 

[toast21602]

2 minutes ago, JFskiDan said:

With...........(drum roll please)

 

 

tannenbaum. 
unless i am reading their FB post wrong. Thats pathetic. 

So many comments are about Vail screwing them. Unfortunately, true. 

[Shadows]

Wow

[JFskiDan]

29 minutes ago, toast21602 said:

So many comments are about Vail screwing them. Unfortunately, true. 

2 line items on a spreadsheet. Its becoming super apparent they are the 2 biggest losers.  

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

I remember skiing big boulder park trail before Blue even opened for the season.  Sucks to suck JFBB

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

And no park features wow.  

[toast21602]

10 minutes ago, JFskiDan said:

2 line items on a spreadsheet. Its becoming super apparent they are the 2 biggest losers.  

Good think you and @RidgeRacer got out of there a few years ago. I couldn't image how pissed off you would be if you were still there.

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

The last time I was at Jack Frost, phillycore was a ski instructor.  

[antman12]

Boulder is opening up with no park features...

Big Boulder Park is over, and it’s sad. I know it’s not for you guys, but the atmosphere they built there over the past 5+ years was incredible given the size of the mountain, slow lifts and location. They held a friggin Snowboarder Mag Miss Superpark plus other (albeit smaller) marquee events for christ sake. Kids of all ages ripping every weekend, locals winning contests all over and an awesome social media presence. Not to mention the obvious; incredible park setups that frequently got changed.

Feel free to make jokes and say your “I told ya so’s” about it being Vailed, but this sucks for local park riders.

 

[RidgeRacer]

Honestly BB park put them on the map...made them relevant in a way. Created a devoted group of skiers and riders. Was never my thing but from a business perspective it seemed to make sense. BB from a pure skiing perspective is a no go..unless they're looking to make a a beginners only, family friendly type of thing ..who knows. All I know is Blue is running the show this season. Not even close. Thank goodness for that.

[toast21602]

9 minutes ago, RidgeRacer said:

Honestly BB park put them on the map...made them relevant in a way. Created a devoted group of skiers and riders. Was never my thing but from a business perspective it seemed to make sense. BB from a pure skiing perspective is a no go..unless they're looking to make a a beginners only, family friendly type of thing ..who knows. All I know is Blue is running the show this season. Not even close. Thank goodness for that.

This is pretty spot on. There was no reason to go to BB except for their crazy early openings, their park, or May Day. Now, none of that exists. 

[Ski2Live Live2Ski]

1 hour ago, toast21602 said:

This is pretty spot on. There was no reason to go to BB except for their crazy early openings, their park, or May Day. Now, none of that exists. 

Given the age of their lifts they could make "selling off chairs" a pretty steady 2nd income stream.

Edited December 18, 2020 by Ski2Live Live2Ski

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

2 hours ago, RidgeRacer said:

Honestly BB park put them on the map...made them relevant in a way. Created a devoted group of skiers and riders. Was never my thing but from a business perspective it seemed to make sense. BB from a pure skiing perspective is a no go..unless they're looking to make a a beginners only, family friendly type of thing ..who knows. All I know is Blue is running the show this season. Not even close. Thank goodness for that.

Big boulder park with no features is a nice steepish run to lap. Big boulder is the first place I skied at age 9 and wasn’t back there again till I was 27

[Justo8484]

1 hour ago, toast21602 said:

This is pretty spot on. There was no reason to go to BB except for their crazy early openings, their park, or May Day. Now, none of that exists. 

exactly. nobody cared about that place 15-20 years ago. then they started holding some smaller rail jams and slopestyle series and started to build some hype. that turned into drawing some unknowns from pretty far away who turned into kinda big deals in the ski industry. i remember skiing with and competing against tom wallisch, steve stepp, sean jordan, brogan, jackie, the dadalis, people who are x games athletes, olympians, people legitimately making a good professional living skiing. and they all still repped boulder whenever asked about growing up skiing in the mid atlantic. not sure what vail's plan is here, but it's definitely a bummer to see boulder lose so much of what put them on the map, even if i'm not so much of a park rat anymore. 

[JFskiDan]

BB's hay day was like ~15 years ago if im not mistaken.  They were at their peak then, and maybe thats when the park scene was also at its peak.  Seems like even with what they were doing there, the audience for park was dwindling away, but the audeince they did have was still pretty hardcore.  Like what RR said, park is what put BB on the map, and it made total sense to just turn that place into one big park.  I remember going there years before park was a thing, like if you left the trail, or your skis left the ground you got your ticket clipped, and the place was a ghost town during the day.  

BB with no park stuff what so ever, signals to me that its circling the drain.  The only thing that might be keeping that place open is night skiing.  i am sure Vail has had more than one conversation about having these 2 resorts so close to one another, double the expense, but probably not double the income.  

[Ski2Live Live2Ski]

38 minutes ago, JFskiDan said:

BB's hay day was like ~15 years ago if im not mistaken.  They were at their peak then, and maybe thats when the park scene was also at its peak.  Seems like even with what they were doing there, the audience for park was dwindling away, but the audeince they did have was still pretty hardcore.  Like what RR said, park is what put BB on the map, and it made total sense to just turn that place into one big park.  I remember going there years before park was a thing, like if you left the trail, or your skis left the ground you got your ticket clipped, and the place was a ghost town during the day.  

BB with no park stuff what so ever, signals to me that its circling the drain.  The only thing that might be keeping that place open is night skiing.  i am sure Vail has had more than one conversation about having these 2 resorts so close to one another, double the expense, but probably not double the income.  

Yeah can't see it lasting long - at least with Vail - if they go through fully with ditching the park. It would make more sense to install lights at Frost to enable nights there and either sell BB off (if there is a buyer - most likely for private club use) or just shut it and save expenses.

[JFskiDan]

28 minutes ago, Ski2Live Live2Ski said:

Yeah can't see it lasting long - at least with Vail - if they go through fully with ditching the park. It would make more sense to install lights at Frost to enable nights there and either sell BB off (if there is a buyer - most likely for private club use) or just shut it and save expenses.

I think if you start seeing more park trails at Frost, it could be the start to the end of BB.  I doubt they would really sell BB, at least not without a non-compete clause of some type.  They wouldnt want to put someone else in business, and possibly take revenue.  

They just took lifts down at BB, correct?  No improvements, from what i remember over the past year.  

[Ski2Live Live2Ski]

24 minutes ago, JFskiDan said:

I think if you start seeing more park trails at Frost, it could be the start to the end of BB.  I doubt they would really sell BB, at least not without a non-compete clause of some type.  They wouldnt want to put someone else in business, and possibly take revenue.  

They just took lifts down at BB, correct?  No improvements, from what i remember over the past year.  

Good point re competition - which makes sale for club use more viable.

But I am not sure Vail cares that much about local competition. They want a presence in NEPA to drive Epic pass sales by providing people in this region with a local option. It was critical tp my decision to get Epic rather than Ikon or ORDA pass.

I dont imagine day ticket sales at Frost will amount to much more than a rounding error for them. They certainly are not acting like they care about driving those sales. No publicity for their opening and pricing day tix way above local competition.

Edited December 18, 2020 by Ski2Live Live2Ski

[trackbiker]

2 minutes ago, Ski2Live Live2Ski said:

Good point re competition - which makes sale for club use more viable.

But I am not sure Vail cares that much about local competition. They want a presence in NEPA to drive Epic pass sales by providing people in this region with a local option. I dont imagine day ticket sales at Frost will amount to much more than a rounding error for them. They certainly are not acting like they care about driving those sales. No publicity for their opening and pricing day tix way above local competition.

Right. Their thing is to drive Epic pass sales. What I'm seeing at Vail resorts all over the country is that reservations are sold out through the holidays and weekends through the end of the season at some resorts. That is going to piss off A LOT of people who bought Epic passes and not can't use them for what they intended. It's essentially become a restricted pass and in a lot cases a useless pass. I know  this year is different but it could really hurt their pass sales next year. A lot of the people getting screwed are lawyers. I can see the class action lawsuits being written up now.

[Ski2Live Live2Ski]

8 minutes ago, trackbiker said:

Right. Their thing is to drive Epic pass sales. What I'm seeing at Vail resorts all over the country is that reservations are sold out through the holidays and weekends through the end of the season at some resorts. That is going to piss off A LOT of people who bought Epic passes and not can't use them for what they intended. It's essentially become a restricted pass and in a lot cases a useless pass. I know  this year is different but it could really hurt their pass sales next year. A lot of the people getting screwed are lawyers. I can see the class action lawsuits being written up now.

Pass holders did get to book 7 priority reservation days before anyone else could book. So I am currently set for 5 days Xmas week and 2 over MLK. And as soon as I use my Xmas days I will have 5 more days to book for other holiday weekends before non pass holders get a crack at them (they can only reserve a week in advance). So I am not real concerned about getting my days in - just takes pre-planning.

 

As a lawyer I am really not seeing any viable legal claims over anything Vail has done so far. Just frustration at poor communication and inattention to their smaller hills.

 

Down side of reservation system is needing to lock in plans without condition info. Like I couldn't switch from Frost to Hunter yesterday when Frost lame out and had 2 runs open after storm. And I am going to Stowe first next week which got a dusting while Okemo got 40" and Snow got 26" this week. 

[JFskiDan]

14 minutes ago, trackbiker said:

Right. Their thing is to drive Epic pass sales. What I'm seeing at Vail resorts all over the country is that reservations are sold out through the holidays and weekends through the end of the season at some resorts. That is going to piss off A LOT of people who bought Epic passes and not can't use them for what they intended. It's essentially become a restricted pass and in a lot cases a useless pass. I know  this year is different but it could really hurt their pass sales next year. A lot of the people getting screwed are lawyers. I can see the class action lawsuits being written up now.

I know a bunch of people local to JFBB that would prefer not to be forced into the Epic pass, but do it just for JFBB, so even though its minor competition, it would cut into sales of the Epic pass some.  

[trackbiker]

4 minutes ago, JFskiDan said:

I know a bunch of people local to JFBB that would prefer not to be forced into the Epic pass, but do it just for JFBB, so even though its minor competition, it would cut into sales of the Epic pass some.  

I know the same thing is true for the former Snowtime resorts in south central PA. They used to be able to buy a pass for all three and now are forced into the Epic pass for a lot more money.

[JFskiDan]

Just now, trackbiker said:

I know the same thing is true for the former Snowtime resorts in south central PA. They used to be able to buy a pass for all three and now are forced into the Epic pass for a lot more money.

Yep.  last year there was quite an uproar over the no local pass thing.  Even more so than some Pocono peeps, it seems like the crowd down there had absolutely no interest in skiing any where else.  and lets face it, from there, you drive past JFBB to go to Hunter, and thats a pretty good drive.  

[trackbiker]

10 minutes ago, Ski2Live Live2Ski said:

 And as soon as I use my Xmas days I will have 5 more days to book for other holiday weekends before non pass holders get a crack at them (they can only reserve a week in advance). So I am not real concerned about getting my days in - just takes pre-planning.

 

You booked early and got those holiday week days. I doubt you will be able get any more holiday weekends once you get the 5 more days. From what I see online they are already booked.

I'm not a lawyer but the pass was not sold with limited days and people will say they are not getting what they were sold or paid for.

[Ski2Live Live2Ski]

8 minutes ago, trackbiker said:

You booked early and got those holiday week days. I doubt you will be able get any more holiday weekends once you get the 5 more days. From what I see online they are already booked.

I'm not a lawyer but the pass was not sold with limited days and people will say they are not getting what they were sold or paid for.

We were offered refunds once the plans changed so it is hard to see what claim folks would have who opted against getting refund.

And I just checked available reservations at Okemo - the only day in the season I could not currently reserve is tomorrow. 

So I am not feeling reel hindered by reservation policy except for the annoyance of needing to lock in plans before weather and conditions are known.