Chair incident

[JFskiDan]

56 minutes ago, SallyCat said:

The similarity I was pointing out was the surging drive, which caused bounce/sway and led to the accident. And that in some cases it seems that lift operators can in fact execute stops/starts from speed and at intervals that they normally shouldn't be able to do. 

If the surging drive, which caused the bounce/sway and led to the accident.......how come only one chair was affected?  No other chairs bounced and swayed?  Just that one?  

I have no insider info, i wasnt there, and i dont ever proclaim to be the ski lift guru, but i just cant get away from a part failure.  I really have to imagine ski lifts are tested for at least some level of bounce and sway.  They have to be.  

[indiggio]

6 minutes ago, JFskiDan said:

If the surging drive, which caused the bounce/sway and led to the accident.......how come only one chair was affected?  No other chairs bounced and swayed?  Just that one?  

I have no insider info, i wasnt there, and i dont ever proclaim to be the ski lift guru, but i just cant get away from a part failure.  I really have to imagine ski lifts are tested for at least some level of bounce and sway.  They have to be.  

Thought they said that the chair hit the support tower?

[JFskiDan]

26 minutes ago, indiggio said:

Thought they said that the chair hit the support tower?

Who is "they"  ?

[indiggio]

13 minutes ago, JFskiDan said:

Who is "they"  ?

Guy that media interviewed who let the people that fell go in front of him in line and was a few chairs back.

[JFskiDan]

5 minutes ago, indiggio said:

Guy that media interviewed who let the people that fell go in front of him in line and was a few chairs back.

i watched this video, and saw where he said it came straight down, but didnt see where he said it hit the tower.  not saying he didnt, or ir didnt hit the tower, but if it did, i wouldnt think it would come straight down.  

https://www.wfmz.com/video/witness-dad-2-kids-hurt-after-ski-lift-accident/video_1b957870-1a7a-5dfd-90ba-99610a136665.html

 

[indiggio]

20 minutes ago, JFskiDan said:

i watched this video, and saw where he said it came straight down, but didnt see where he said it hit the tower.  not saying he didnt, or ir didnt hit the tower, but if it did, i wouldnt think it would come straight down.  

https://www.wfmz.com/video/witness-dad-2-kids-hurt-after-ski-lift-accident/video_1b957870-1a7a-5dfd-90ba-99610a136665.html

 

I saw him interviewed somewhere other than WFMZ, so he may not say the same thing(s) in every interview.
I'd have to hunt around where I saw it.

It's also been widely proven that even eyewitness reports aren't necessarily reliable either...

[enjoralas]

13 hours ago, RidgeRacer said:

My mother, who lives in Florida, just called me to see if I heard about what happened at camelback. Apparently she saw the story on her local news.

Camelback is the ski resort equivalent of “Florida guy”

[Schif]

Complete uneducated guess here but I would imagine that that chair was just in the exact wrong place at the exact wrong time and some sort of resonance got involved and swung it all the way up due to a hard stop or a drive surge or a combination of the two. I'm sure the sudden force and the fact that it swung so high was just too much for the parts that clamp the chair onto the cable, they are designed to release after all so they aren't exactly welded on there, and the chair just came off. Resonance is a hell of thing and if that chair was a few feet up or a few feet back we might not be talking about this today. 

[JFskiDan]

2 hours ago, indiggio said:

 

It's also been widely proven that even eyewitness reports aren't necessarily reliable either...

Sort of the position im taking on this until someone can produce a video of it, or something more substantial that just he said, she said. Not that i like seeing people get messed up, i would have to stop a video before it actually hit the ground. 
 

i saw a really interesting report where eyewitnesses to some set up incident, could agree on the one main actors shirt color, so yeah, even eyewitnesses are not the most accurate. 

[JFskiDan]

38 minutes ago, JFskiDan said:

Sort of the position im taking on this until someone can produce a video of it, or something more substantial that just he said, she said. Not that i like seeing people get messed up, i would have to stop a video before it actually hit the ground. 
 

i saw a really interesting report where eyewitnesses to some set up incident, could agree on the one main actors shirt color, so yeah, even eyewitnesses are not the most accurate. 

should be "could not"

i hate typing on my phone.  

[Kyle]

40 minutes ago, JFskiDan said:

Sort of the position im taking on this until someone can produce a video of it, or something more substantial that just he said, she said. Not that i like seeing people get messed up, i would have to stop a video before it actually hit the ground. 
 

i saw a really interesting report where eyewitnesses to some set up incident, could agree on the one main actors shirt color, so yeah, even eyewitnesses are not the most accurate. 

Witnessing traumatic events, especially if it’s your first time, can fog people’s memories as well. I’ve dealt with a handful of fatal accidents where a witness can’t seem to remember which car caused the accident but they can describe injuries (to an extent) and whether or not the person was wearing a seatbelt 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

57 minutes ago, JFskiDan said:

Sort of the position im taking on this until someone can produce a video of it, or something more substantial that just he said, she said. Not that i like seeing people get messed up, i would have to stop a video before it actually hit the ground. 
 

i saw a really interesting report where eyewitnesses to some set up incident, could agree on the one main actors shirt color, so yeah, even eyewitnesses are not the most accurate. 

I like seeing carnage videos.  Liveleak is amazing I’m sure @theprogram4 is a fan. 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

21 minutes ago, Kyle said:

Witnessing traumatic events, especially if it’s your first time, can fog people’s memories as well. I’ve dealt with a handful of fatal accidents where a witness can’t seem to remember which car caused the accident but they can describe injuries (to an extent) and whether or not the person was wearing a seatbelt 

Reminds me of when Root had PTSD when one of the rollers on Razors got him. 

[theprogram4]

8 minutes ago, GrilledSteezeSandwich said:

I like seeing carnage videos.  Liveleak is amazing I’m sure @theprogram4 is a fan. 

Not too sound like an asshole, but a camelback chairlift fall video would be like an PG rating for the horrific shit I’ve seen online.  I used to watch raw footage of all types of crazy shit, but after watching footage of the Vegas shooting as it happened before medics even showed up, I cut back a bit.  I still regret watching that video

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

9 minutes ago, theprogram4 said:

Not too sound like an asshole, but a camelback chairlift fall video would be like an PG rating for the horrific shit I’ve seen online.  I used to watch raw footage of all types of crazy shit, but after watching footage of the Vegas shooting as it happened before medics even showed up, I cut back a bit.  I still regret watching that video

I’ve watched several bad ski accident videos just on YouTube.  The one ski racer basically got split in half on a snow fence leaving a trail of blood.  I don’t regret watching any of them although some of the animal attack videos and war footage from Syria are intense. 

Edited March 24, 2021 by GrilledSteezeSandwich

[SallyCat]

6 hours ago, Schif said:

Complete uneducated guess here but I would imagine that that chair was just in the exact wrong place at the exact wrong time and some sort of resonance got involved and swung it all the way up due to a hard stop or a drive surge or a combination of the two. I'm sure the sudden force and the fact that it swung so high was just too much for the parts that clamp the chair onto the cable, they are designed to release after all so they aren't exactly welded on there, and the chair just came off. Resonance is a hell of thing and if that chair was a few feet up or a few feet back we might not be talking about this today. 

That's what I've been saying and why I brought up the Granby Ranch accident. People keep saying it's not relevant because those victims fell but the chair did not. But witnesses said the CBK chair was swaying and bouncing, and the guy interviewed on WFMZ actually said the chair went nearly vertical and then the passengers fell off right before the chair fell. People who were there that day commented on the weird bouncing and swaying prior to the accident.

My point was just that there seems to be some sort of surge or dynamic aberrance that the two accidents have in common. That doesn't explain why the CBK chair detached of course, but it does indicate that there was something significantly wrong not just with the chair but with the larger operating system. 

 

[momskeeztoo]

I wonder if any riders reported to anyone that it was acting up? I definitely would have alerted a least ski patrol. 

[enjoralas]

I think it’s all because of that one red wheel.

[Lift Blog]

Well I checked with the state and they do not plan to release the investigation report. So we may never know.

Other states do view such records as public - Colorado and Michigan are two.

At least they are investigating. Lots of states don't have tramway oversight at all.

[Old Geezer]

On 3/23/2021 at 8:42 PM, saltyant said:

I've seen some comments like "stay safe out there". Like what? How am I supposed to "stay safe" on a chairlift except by not riding said chairlift? 

There are choices you can proactively make,

- put the bar down or not.  Old part-time ski patroller (and full time ER doc) I knew used to say the bar on a chairlift is like a seat belt in a car.

- adjust your gear while on the chair or not.

- Swing your legs so the chair bounces and sways.

- Stick your poles out side the 'zone' so said poles catch on something, trees, etc, get caught on the tree and pull you out of the chair.

Many choices.

[abe]

Thinking I might go to Camelback tomorrow night given better base condition and, surprisingly, better night rate than Blue

I will try my hardest to avoid the parking scam and to not let my chair fall off the cable

[saltyant]

Just now, abe said:

Thinking I might go to Camelback tomorrow night given better base condition and, surprisingly, better night rate than Blue

I will try my hardest to avoid the parking scam and to not let my chair fall off the cable

I showed up for 5 pm last Tues and guest services told me right out to not pay the parking scam. Great success

Edited March 26, 2021 by saltyant

[abe]

Maybe I should bubble wrap myself before getting on the lift

[saltyant]

1 minute ago, abe said:

Maybe I should bubble wrap myself before getting on the lift

Nah you'll be fine. I wonder what the odds of a chair falling off are? Probably 0.000001%. Any mathematicians on here?

[RidgeRacer]

11 minutes ago, saltyant said:

Nah you'll be fine. I wonder what the odds of a chair falling off are? Probably 0.000001%. Any mathematicians on here?